These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Science & Industry

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Eve Isk Per hour and Invention
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Primus Dedumo
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1 - 2014-05-30 08:03:49 UTC
Ok so I have been using isk per hour for a while now, and recently started into T2 Invention.

When I am using the Isk per hour program for the calculation of T2 Products, I noticed when checking out the formula where it says "runs Invention Cost:" it does not include the invention chance.

The formula stated in the program is stated as follows:

Invention cost for runs entered= (datacores+decryptors+ install fees) / invented runs * runs


The program basically uses this value and adds ist to the "Total raw material count"


The thing is that the program does not take into account any factor of the invention chance into this calculation. Or am I just seeing this wrong?

Say if soemthing has a chance of 25% of succesfull invention, shouldn't the program also then account for all the failed runs as well in to the "runs invention cost" formula?
Ie. The invention run cost should be 4 times higher than used by the program.

I have a feeling that using the invention chance into the run invention cost formula would give a better representation of the true total invention cost for making a product for scratch.


Or do people use other programs/ sites for their invention?
Loraine Gess
Confedeferate Union of Tax Legalists
#2 - 2014-05-30 09:08:32 UTC
So is there any particular reason you couldn't post this in the forum thread dedicated to that program? You assume everyone on this board uses it?
Winthorp
#3 - 2014-05-30 10:19:09 UTC
Loraine Gess wrote:
So is there any particular reason you couldn't post this in the forum thread dedicated to that program? You assume everyone on this board uses it?


Is there any reason you would pull him up on this that he possibly didn't know existed and not link it to be helpful?

Super douchy.
Elena Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2014-05-30 10:38:28 UTC
Primus Dedumo wrote:
The thing is that the program does not take into account any factor of the invention chance into this calculation. Or am I just seeing this wrong?


You're seeing it wrong

Quote:
Say if soemthing has a chance of 25% of succesfull invention, shouldn't the program also then account for all the failed runs as well in to the "runs invention cost" formula?


It does.
You can see this if you edit the skills for the character and change the invention-related skills up and down. Increase the related skills (increases success %) and the 'Runs invention cost' will decrease, reflecting the higher chance of succeeding.
Loraine Gess
Confedeferate Union of Tax Legalists
#5 - 2014-05-30 10:56:39 UTC
Winthorp wrote:
Loraine Gess wrote:
So is there any particular reason you couldn't post this in the forum thread dedicated to that program? You assume everyone on this board uses it?


Is there any reason you would pull him up on this that he possibly didn't know existed and not link it to be helpful?

Super douchy.




Considering it's on the front page, clearly labelled, and the only place to download the program?


Yes, I do think he knows there's a thread for it.
Primus Dedumo
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#6 - 2014-05-30 11:17:08 UTC
Loraine Gess wrote:
So is there any particular reason you couldn't post this in the forum thread dedicated to that program? You assume everyone on this board uses it?



Im sorry if I peed in your cornflakes this morning, but I figured that the other post was related to problems with the program and other things. My reason for creating the post was that there was no clear answer to this anywhere and I did not want this to get lost in the 20 or so other topics merged into that one. My appologies.


Elena Thiesant wrote:

It does.
You can see this if you edit the skills for the character and change the invention-related skills up and down. Increase the related skills (increases success %) and the 'Runs invention cost' will decrease, reflecting the higher chance of succeeding.


Ahh ok I see that now. So basically the program does incorperate failures into the overall equation, but you only see it in the program when your skills change. I love the program, but it can be abit confusing/ overwhelming when your looking to use it for things like invention. Is there by anychance a guide written fro how to use the program as well?

Also theres a buttton on the left box that has comonents, raw materials and invention/RE. If you are using it for invention do you need to use "invention/RE"? I have found that it has no affect on any of the results.
Loraine Gess
Confedeferate Union of Tax Legalists
#7 - 2014-05-30 11:28:01 UTC
Primus Dedumo wrote:
Loraine Gess wrote:
So is there any particular reason you couldn't post this in the forum thread dedicated to that program? You assume everyone on this board uses it?



Im sorry if I peed in your cornflakes this morning, but I figured that the other post was related to problems with the program and other things. My reason for creating the post was that there was no clear answer to this anywhere and I did not want this to get lost in the 20 or so other topics merged into that one. My appologies.




So your question is more important than the other questions? You felt entitled to push your way to the front and waste everyone's time?
Primus Dedumo
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#8 - 2014-05-30 11:54:58 UTC
Loraine Gess wrote:
Primus Dedumo wrote:
Loraine Gess wrote:
So is there any particular reason you couldn't post this in the forum thread dedicated to that program? You assume everyone on this board uses it?



Im sorry if I peed in your cornflakes this morning, but I figured that the other post was related to problems with the program and other things. My reason for creating the post was that there was no clear answer to this anywhere and I did not want this to get lost in the 20 or so other topics merged into that one. My appologies.




So your question is more important than the other questions? You felt entitled to push your way to the front and waste everyone's time?



Well apparently i have inconvenienced you. But that was no way my intention so please stop making this more of a problem than it already is. There are more important things in life buddy :)
Zifrian
The Frog Pond
Ribbit.
#9 - 2014-05-30 12:13:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Zifrian
Elena Thiesant wrote:

It does.
You can see this if you edit the skills for the character and change the invention-related skills up and down. Increase the related skills (increases success %) and the 'Runs invention cost' will decrease, reflecting the higher chance of succeeding.

Quote:

Ahh ok I see that now. So basically the program does incorperate failures into the overall equation, but you only see it in the program when your skills change. I love the program, but it can be abit confusing/ overwhelming when your looking to use it for things like invention. Is there by anychance a guide written fro how to use the program as well?

Also theres a buttton on the left box that has comonents, raw materials and invention/RE. If you are using it for invention do you need to use "invention/RE"? I have found that it has no affect on any of the results.

For invention chance, I calculate the number of invention jobs you would need, assuming a large number of runs, to result in one successful BPC. Then I divide that by the number of BPC runs. So it ends up with the invention cost per run of that item. The number you aren't seeing is the number of total invention jobs. If you add the item to the shopping list with invention mats (check in settings) you'll see materials for the number of runs you need. (Also, that button for Invention/RE is just to add only those materials to the shopping list and not the component or raw materials).

I tried to remove as many of the calculations and numbers from the screen as possible, but as you can see it gets complex quickly.

On that note, no I don't have a guide. I've thought about doing some youtube tutorials at some point. I'm not sure if/when I'll do that. Maybe after I get all the industry patch changes done.

Maximze your Industry Potential! - Download EVE Isk per Hour!

Import CCP's SDE - EVE SDE Database Builder
Elena Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2014-05-30 12:15:08 UTC
Primus Dedumo wrote:
Also theres a buttton on the left box that has comonents, raw materials and invention/RE. If you are using it for invention do you need to use "invention/RE"? I have found that it has no affect on any of the results.


I just leave that at whatever it defaults to. The components/raw mats affects what shows up in the mats list, if you uncheck the buy/build checkbox. The invention/RE option, not sure. You'd have to ask the dev.
Elena Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2014-05-30 12:18:43 UTC
Zifrian wrote:
On that note, no I don't have a guide. I've thought about doing some youtube tutorials at some point. I'm not sure if/when I'll do that. Maybe after I get all the industry patch changes done.


A doc/wiki/reference would be very, very useful if/when you have time.
Primus Dedumo
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#12 - 2014-05-30 18:42:26 UTC
ahh alright, well thats very clear now :) Makes invention all of a sudden very easy to do :)