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Bastion mode

Author
KILLSNIPER
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2014-05-30 00:36:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Killsniper
English is not my main language.

If i'm right, when a player lost connection to the game, modules shut down, drones are scooped into ship, and the ship warp out far away. The Bastion module is currently intended to continue cycling even after a disconnection. This will prevent your vessel from emergency warping to safety.
Why it doesn't stop at the disconnection? To avoid abusive uses to end the bastion mode before the 1min couldown.

But when a player lost his connection during an exploration site (or any other situation) and had his bastion module active, even without being scrambled, the ship will probably be destroyed easely by NPC because all hardeners are OFF and the bastion cycle prevents the warp off.

So here is a suggestion:
when a player loses his connection while beeing in bastion mode, set all modules ON (except propulsion module) and when bastion cycle ends, do as usual (all modules OFF and warp out).
The same thing can be applied to the siege module and triage module.

This suggestion is to make working the emergency warping in any situation in a fair way.


If you agree or don't agree, say why.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#2 - 2014-05-30 00:58:01 UTC
Yeah this is annoying and doesn't make much sense. +1
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
#3 - 2014-05-30 01:19:20 UTC
It's been brought up several times before, even before day 1 with the bastion module. As you noted, the Marauder class is not the only ship class that has this issue with regards to the "e-warping" mechanic (and there are good reasons why). That said, and considering this issue can be caused by a technical problem, I'm sure other players wouldn't be against reworking the mechanic to allow Marauders to e-warp at the end of cycle as long as and only if other ships (carriers, dreads, cyno boats, etc.) that are in the same "boat" are permitted to e-warp as well.

In short, I'd be fine with e-warps for Marauders, but it has to be done the right way and include all other ships with a similar issue with e-warping.

"Tomahawks?"

"----in' A, right?"

"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."

"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#4 - 2014-05-30 01:22:00 UTC
If they did that, it could (and almost certainly would) be abused.

Notably their immunity to most forms of ewar.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#5 - 2014-05-30 01:39:40 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
If they did that, it could (and almost certainly would) be abused.

Notably their immunity to most forms of ewar.

How? For marauders and capitals there is a pretty big align time that provides plenty of time to re tackle from rats and players. The biggest problem is that my catgut could technically be in space until downtime because of Aggro and a single rat.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2014-05-30 01:42:52 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
If they did that, it could (and almost certainly would) be abused.

Notably their immunity to most forms of ewar.

Bastion deactivating is visible and I would think should allow an attacker time to point the target before they align since they should need to accelerate from a stop in a BS.

It seems to me less abusive than a normal e-warp since you have a tell by both the ships movement and bastion animation when the target is pointable.
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy
Caldari State
#7 - 2014-05-30 02:10:32 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
If they did that, it could (and almost certainly would) be abused.

Notably their immunity to most forms of ewar.

It would only be abused if someone didn't make the obvious fixes to prevent abuse. Because its a very simple mechanic. That requires a very simple change.
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2014-05-30 02:11:51 UTC
Since according to CCP Devs you should balance your purchases based on the fact they could be removed with no compensation by the Devs the next next, you should base your ship purchases on your internet connection. If for some reason there is a chance a roving band of individuals with questionable background should by happenstance cause a minor fault in your internet connection, thereby causing you to disconnect in a ship incapable of E-Warp, then you should prolly not fly that ship, or any PvE or PvP ship, since obviously you might disconnect.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#9 - 2014-05-30 02:35:25 UTC
Nariya Kentaya wrote:
Since according to CCP Devs you should balance your purchases based on the fact they could be removed with no compensation by the Devs the next next, you should base your ship purchases on your internet connection. If for some reason there is a chance a roving band of individuals with questionable background should by happenstance cause a minor fault in your internet connection, thereby causing you to disconnect in a ship incapable of E-Warp, then you should prolly not fly that ship, or any PvE or PvP ship, since obviously you might disconnect.

Why should any ship not have a working ewarp function? It's unnecessary to have it work this way. If I lose my ship in a fight because of disconnect I'm not gonna cry about it (maybe a little, in the inside) but having my ship stay in space indefinitely because if counteracting mechanics is not how it should work.
KILLSNIPER
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2014-05-30 03:21:45 UTC
Quote:
Quote:
Since according to CCP Devs you should balance your purchases based on the fact they could be removed with no compensation by the Devs the next next, you should base your ship purchases on your internet connection. If for some reason there is a chance a roving band of individuals with questionable background should by happenstance cause a minor fault in your internet connection, thereby causing you to disconnect in a ship incapable of E-Warp, then you should prolly not fly that ship, or any PvE or PvP ship, since obviously you might disconnect.

Why should any ship not have a working ewarp function? It's unnecessary to have it work this way. If I lose my ship in a fight because of disconnect I'm not gonna cry about it (maybe a little, in the inside) but having my ship stay in space indefinitely because if counteracting mechanics is not how it should work.


And if the problem can be resolved, let's do it. At the moment i don't see any disadvantage, it's only positive. There is many things that generate this issue: graphic bugs, power cuts, client bug (which need a restart), etc. Neglect people having these issues isn't a solution.
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2014-05-30 04:16:39 UTC
Rowells wrote:
Nariya Kentaya wrote:
Since according to CCP Devs you should balance your purchases based on the fact they could be removed with no compensation by the Devs the next next, you should base your ship purchases on your internet connection. If for some reason there is a chance a roving band of individuals with questionable background should by happenstance cause a minor fault in your internet connection, thereby causing you to disconnect in a ship incapable of E-Warp, then you should prolly not fly that ship, or any PvE or PvP ship, since obviously you might disconnect.

Why should any ship not have a working ewarp function? It's unnecessary to have it work this way. If I lose my ship in a fight because of disconnect I'm not gonna cry about it (maybe a little, in the inside) but having my ship stay in space indefinitely because if counteracting mechanics is not how it should work.

Im not saying I necessarily agree with how it is, hell, I love bastion. Its just that with the current trend of CCP decisions, theyll just say "you knew the risks" to avoid putting development time on it
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
#12 - 2014-05-30 05:07:27 UTC
Nariya Kentaya wrote:
Since according to CCP Devs you should balance your purchases based on the fact they could be removed with no compensation by the Devs the next next, you should base your ship purchases on your internet connection.



Link to this statment or GTFO!
Valleria Darkmoon
No Salvation
Top Belt for Fun
#13 - 2014-05-30 05:09:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Valleria Darkmoon
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
If they did that, it could (and almost certainly would) be abused.

Notably their immunity to most forms of ewar.

It's not like you will end cycle and go straight into warp. We're not talking about ending the cycle early and e-warping the ship, we're talking about turning the module red when the pilot disconnects and having the ship e-warp when the cycle ends. The ship would still have to align and get up to speed just like always. Bastion/Siege/Triage only make you e-war immune while they are active. As soon as you see the ship starting to move you know it is not e-war immune anymore, point it for exactly the same effect a point has on any ship.

In no case can you prevent a HIC super point either just in case you're not confident in your ability to tackle a battleship or cap you have pre-locked before it can finish and entire alignment.

You CAN order your ship to warp while you are in bastion/siege/triage, not that it will stop your ship from telling you exactly where to shove that order.

I struggle to see how you could abuse this. Your aggression flaggings would prevent your ship from disappearing while tackled, has been this way since Crucible. Online or offline the time it would take to warp any ship coming out of an e-war immune mode is identical.

Reality has an almost infinite capacity to resist oversimplification.

Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#14 - 2014-05-30 06:00:33 UTC
Lephia DeGrande wrote:
Nariya Kentaya wrote:
Since according to CCP Devs you should balance your purchases based on the fact they could be removed with no compensation by the Devs the next next, you should base your ship purchases on your internet connection.



Link to this statment or GTFO!

I(t was by I think Falcon in one of the longer threadnaughts about the T2 BPO possible removal hoozit.
Ellendras Silver
CrashCat Corporation
#15 - 2014-05-30 06:04:15 UTC
Rowells wrote:
Yeah this is annoying and doesn't make much sense. +1


no it makes perfectly sense, and this is not the first thread about it. If they would make it so as OP wants and e-warp the ship despite that its in bastion mode, people can unplug the network cable on their PC when a hostile comes in system and that way escape from combat while they cant warp because of the bastion mode.

not being able to warp off is a trade off for very high bonus that the bastion module provides, it should NOT be overruled by a DC this problem isnt new carriers in triage, dreads in siege, titans after using doomsday rorqual in industry mode and every ship with a cyno has the same issue.

once again it is a TRADE OFF for provided bonuses

[u]Carpe noctem[/u]

Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#16 - 2014-05-30 06:26:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Rowells
Ellendras Silver wrote:
Rowells wrote:
Yeah this is annoying and doesn't make much sense. +1


no it makes perfectly sense, and this is not the first thread about it. If they would make it so as OP wants and e-warp the ship despite that its in bastion mode, people can unplug the network cable on their PC when a hostile comes in system and that way escape from combat while they cant warp because of the bastion mode.

not being able to warp off is a trade off for very high bonus that the bastion module provides, it should NOT be overruled by a DC this problem isnt new carriers in triage, dreads in siege, titans after using doomsday rorqual in industry mode and every ship with a cyno has the same issue.

once again it is a TRADE OFF for provided bonuses

Quote:
when bastion cycle ends, do as usual (all modules OFF and warp out).
The bastion would finish cycle then attempt E-warp. Rather than currently when it attempts ewarp in bation, fails, and sits there forever afterwards.

And i would go as far as to extend this to other ships as well. I see no reason why using these modules means they can't attempt to warp normally afterwards.
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2014-05-30 12:08:31 UTC
+1
I see no compelling reason that ships shouldn't ewarp at the end of the bastion cycle (not during the middle of it).
Velicitia
XS Tech
#18 - 2014-05-30 13:19:28 UTC
Getting to the mechanics themselves, don't the modules finish their cycle, and then shut off?

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

Ellendras Silver
CrashCat Corporation
#19 - 2014-05-30 13:45:59 UTC
Rowells wrote:
Ellendras Silver wrote:
Rowells wrote:
Yeah this is annoying and doesn't make much sense. +1


no it makes perfectly sense, and this is not the first thread about it. If they would make it so as OP wants and e-warp the ship despite that its in bastion mode, people can unplug the network cable on their PC when a hostile comes in system and that way escape from combat while they cant warp because of the bastion mode.

not being able to warp off is a trade off for very high bonus that the bastion module provides, it should NOT be overruled by a DC this problem isnt new carriers in triage, dreads in siege, titans after using doomsday rorqual in industry mode and every ship with a cyno has the same issue.

once again it is a TRADE OFF for provided bonuses

Quote:
when bastion cycle ends, do as usual (all modules OFF and warp out).
The bastion would finish cycle then attempt E-warp. Rather than currently when it attempts ewarp in bation, fails, and sits there forever afterwards.

And i would go as far as to extend this to other ships as well. I see no reason why using these modules means they can't attempt to warp normally afterwards.


E-warp is simple it does an attempt to warp off when disconnected, if it cant warp it won`t make a second attempt that is how it works. this rule is how it works and every ship that can be prevented from warp suffers from this. My point stands and remains valid.

I do have a solution though, fly another ship or a marauder without bastion module. there solved.

[u]Carpe noctem[/u]

Ellendras Silver
CrashCat Corporation
#20 - 2014-05-30 13:47:10 UTC
Velicitia wrote:
Getting to the mechanics themselves, don't the modules finish their cycle, and then shut off?


yes, but then the E-warp is over so it wont make another attempt as it already tried to warp and failed to do so.

[u]Carpe noctem[/u]

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