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Challenge for CCP! If you create a SteamOS or Linux client, I will...
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Karak Terrel
Foundation for CODE and THE NEW ORDER
#21 - 2014-05-13 19:19:51 UTC
I never even played EVE on Windows and I play this game for 6.5 years now (My last windows was Win 98se).

I think there where a few occasions where you had to tweak something to get it running again. Usually someone had the solution on how to get it going again in a matter of minutes in this forums. And IIRC there where two times where it actually broke but CCP fixed it within days (t2 crash, flickering).

Other than that it just works and the overhead wine has is probably compensated by the overhead Linux with a reasonable window manager doesn't have.

So how could they justify to rewrite the whole engine when the much more reasonable approved is to simply ship EVE with a custom wine in Steam OS. It would not be the first game.
Rammix
TheMurk
#22 - 2014-05-14 04:12:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Rammix
Karak Terrel wrote:

So how could they justify to rewrite the whole engine when the much more reasonable approved is to simply ship EVE with a custom wine in Steam OS. It would not be the first game.

Today they sure can ignore linux. But they should think about the future. As was mentioned ITT, popularity of linux is growing and at some point in the future ccp will have to do something about it. If they delay it for too long they risk dropping out of the market some day or at least start losing the growing part of their subscribers (especially if they make dx11 mandatory without wine supporting it, etc, etc).
The future is with *nix-es.

OpenSUSE Leap 42.1, wine >1.9

Covert cyno in highsec: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=296129&find=unread
Marsan
#23 - 2014-05-15 21:59:03 UTC
Karak Terrel wrote:
I never even played EVE on Windows and I play this game for 6.5 years now (My last windows was Win 98se).

I think there where a few occasions where you had to tweak something to get it running again. Usually someone had the solution on how to get it going again in a matter of minutes in this forums. And IIRC there where two times where it actually broke but CCP fixed it within days (t2 crash, flickering).

Other than that it just works and the overhead wine has is probably compensated by the overhead Linux with a reasonable window manager doesn't have.

So how could they justify to rewrite the whole engine when the much more reasonable approved is to simply ship EVE with a custom wine in Steam OS. It would not be the first game.


They tried that long ago. It was far worse than the current game is under wine...

Former forum cheerleader CCP, now just a grumpy small portion of the community.
Neuntausendeins
#24 - 2014-05-16 00:28:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Neuntausendeins
Marsan wrote:

They tried that long ago. It was far worse than the current game is under wine...


That was however because they didn't ship it with a current wine, but with Transgaming Cedega. Game developers usually tend to use Cedega or Cider for that kind of thing, because as a business, Transgaming offers professional support, even though their fork is generally worse than wine.

Shipping a commercial game with wine is complicated, as wines strength is, that it's growing and developing all the time, just like the games themselves. But that also means that things may break any time. The Gamecompany would have to keep it rolling contribute to wine in addition to just developing their game, because by officially releasing a wine bundle they commit to keep things working.
Swiftstrike1
Swiftstrike Incorporated
#25 - 2014-05-23 21:15:37 UTC
I would love to play EVE on Steam OS. My favourite game on a pure gaming machine running purpose built gaming OS... what could be better?

Casual Incursion runner & Faction Warfare grunt, ex-Wormholer, ex-Nullbear.
Learned Vagrant
Black Horse Logistics Industries
#26 - 2014-05-30 01:02:55 UTC
Doc McCoy wrote:
If you are running a 64 bit version of linux you can run Eve pretty easily provided you use a newer version of wine. True you aren't running wine in 64bit mode, but any Linux distro worth using has either a 1.6.x or 1.7.x 32bit version of wine all packaged up for you. Head on over to winehq, and follow the howtos.


I did some research last night and Wine 1.62 seems to be the last version, the people who wrote Wine have decided to change the name of the program, and I;m not sure the new program does the same thing as Wine.
Learned Vagrant
Black Horse Logistics Industries
#27 - 2014-05-30 01:21:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Learned Vagrant
People keep talking about Steam, but I don't really understand what that is. My only interaction with Steam turned out very badly. I bought a game from EBay, trying to keep my Eve addiction under control. The game could only be installed via Steam. I followed the instructions, but the game wouldn't run. I sent the error message to Steam several times because the error message suggested that the problem wasn't on my end. I got a message saying they had received the 'bug report', but nothing else. After 3 months I trashed the game. That kind of 'support' really irritates me.

As a consultant I always left my phone number with clients. It led to a few instances like an emergency call at 3 AM from a project that was completed 2 years earlier. The problem was that they couldn't figure out how to spell 'administrator', but I never hung up the phone on one of those calls unless the problem was solved, or I needed to go to the site to fix it.

How many tech support teams have you run into lately who would do that? Then again, if I made a mistake, or missed a call, the project site might end up as a large smoking crater. The city of Omaha comes to mind, along with several others.

Now I have forgotten the reason why I posted here, so I need to get out and look at some of the earlier posts, so this will be edited.

Edit: Ahh, have any of you tried using a VM shell with a nice stable version of windows running on it? (I know that nice and stable are two words that should never appear in the same sentence as 'Windoze'.)

I've heard from several people that Wine is the ONLY way to play Eve from a Linux system, but a VM shell sounds like a possible alternative. So, I don't know anything about VMware, except it sounds good. Can anyone tell me what the drawbacks are for that approach?
Neuntausendeins
#28 - 2014-05-30 02:56:14 UTC
Now you are just randomly crossposting in every topic you can find, aren't you?

Anyway, your research has failed you, as wine is still being developed past 1.6 and it will still be called wine. This information may be hard to find for some, but I usually consider the official homepage as a good source of information:

http://www.winehq.org/

As for VM: As I already told you in one of the other topics you posted in - Virtualization works, but you will need a dedicated Graphics Card just for your VM, as currently there's no virtual machine that can emulate a 3d graphics accelerator that's fast enough to actually play games with.

Concerning Steam: Most of us aren't excited about Steam itself, but the effects it may have on gaming on Linux in general. It doesn't really matter if you or me or anyone else likes Steam. The fact is, Steam is wildly successful as a distribution platform for games. Many developers and publishers sell their games via Steam. Even Eve Online is on Stem. Now we, as the Linux community in general hope, that once Steam comes to Linux in full force in the form of a Linux based Steam OS, developers will recognize Linux as a viable platform to play and sell games on and will start to develop native Linux games. Wether or not they will be on Steam is not that important.

Best case scenario would be if big hardware and game developers even started to contribute to the development of open source drivers and libraries to make their games work better on Linux.
Czar Falcorr
Light Style
The Gorgon Spawn
#29 - 2014-06-10 15:27:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Czar Falcorr
Learned Vagrant wrote:
I did some research last night and Wine 1.62 seems to be the last version, the people who wrote Wine have decided to change the name of the program, and I;m not sure the new program does the same thing as Wine.


There is no Wine 1.62, current stable version is 1.6.2 and current development version (which I'm running) is 1.7.19, so obviously 1.6.2 can't be the last version of wine, especially so considering the announcement of WINE 1.8 at FOSDEM 2014. I also could not find any official OR unofficial information on renaming of the project or any changes in the development style/cycle.

Can you quote your source?
IGuardian
Internet Guardians Holdings
Internet Guardians
#30 - 2014-08-28 13:40:23 UTC
Borealis Aquila wrote:
Linux players don't even want to have a native client Shocked


We do, we just want one that works.
Darkpepper
Lost World Compagny
#31 - 2014-09-01 08:23:51 UTC
Anyway CCP won't pay for such a huge development without a good vision of the "For what?" thing.

How many players are using Linux / wine ? I haven't seen any vote in game or on this forum to etablished this statistic (and Eve Gate is not used by anyone so a vote here wouldn't be representative) it could be done by a "one shot" question asked at Launcher startup "What operating system are you using ? Windows, Mac OS, Linux".

What is the potential of a native Client ? How many players would be interrested in joining the EVE community after this (not a real number but a Pessimist approximation)


Money can't buy happiness... but it damn helps

**W**ormhole space, **L**inux Mint, **F**ree cookies
Gislin D'ahl
Perkone
Caldari State
#32 - 2014-09-01 14:24:15 UTC
Borealis Aquila wrote:
Linux players don't even want to have a native client Shocked


It's not that I don't "want" a linux client. But CCP staff does a really good job of keeping things functional with wine and I appreciate that they go to that effort. Plenty of companies don't bother. I give them the best "thumbs up" I can -- I pay for my accounts.

I mean, if CCP wanted to give me a body servant who fed me bite-sized pieces of sandwich and massaged my feet while I played, I'd sure "want" it. But I don't ever think about how I'm disappointed they don't provide me with one.
DJentropy Ovaert
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#33 - 2014-09-04 10:28:08 UTC
To those of you having trouble running EVE via WINE on a 64-bit Linux install...

All you need is the ia32-libs package. On a Linux Mint install, that's as easy as opening a terminal and giving it a 'sudo apt-get install ia32-libs' command. Hard to run 32 bit code on a 64 bit system without it :P
COMM4NDER
Legendary Umbrellas
#34 - 2014-09-11 14:31:05 UTC  |  Edited by: COMM4NDER
Karak Terrel wrote:
I never even played EVE on Windows and I play this game for 6.5 years now (My last windows was Win 98se).

I think there where a few occasions where you had to tweak something to get it running again. Usually someone had the solution on how to get it going again in a matter of minutes in this forums. And IIRC there where two times where it actually broke but CCP fixed it within days (t2 crash, flickering).

Other than that it just works and the overhead wine has is probably compensated by the overhead Linux with a reasonable window manager doesn't have.

So how could they justify to rewrite the whole engine when the much more reasonable approved is to simply ship EVE with a custom wine in Steam OS. It would not be the first game.


Mostly a graphics engine is agnostic. Since their change to Direct3D 11 they made the changes needed to make it agnostic so implementing OpenGL should not be that hard other than making some changes like shaders behave etc.

The hard part is to leave the rest of Microsoft libraries that they depend on. I would actually support a OpenGL client but running though Wine. The biggest impact is the Wine -> d3d -> OpenGL layer. Though since Wine is also CPU limited quite badly a game that is also CPU limited most of the time is not helping.

That is why the command stream patches help so much in wine games.

[url=https://github.com/CommanderAlchemy/.bin/blob/master/eve] EVE - Online Launcher [Linux] [/url] Installs, launches character prefixes (both SISI & Tranquility). Simplescreenrecorder shm inject
Phoeniix
State War Academy
Caldari State
#35 - 2014-09-18 16:31:11 UTC
Time are changing :)

You can shove D3D9 directly into driver if using open source drivers

Proprietary drivers : Wine -> d3d9 -> OpenGL -> ??? -> Video card
Open source drivers : Wine -> d3d9 -> OpenGL -> TGSI -> Video card
Open source drivers (github.com/iXit) : Wine -> d3d9 -> TGSI -> Video card.

With native D3D on Linux you get *up to* twice of what you get with the CSMT patchs. You need a special branch of Mesa and Wine and it's still on the very experimental side of thing.
Neuntausend
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#36 - 2014-09-18 20:07:07 UTC
That's good to know. Gentoo users just do:

layman -a ixit
USE="nine" emerge -av mesa::ixit wine::ixit

and are good to go, assuming they are using current OSS drivers already. It doesn't seem to be any faster than Eve with wine-csmt from what I've seen so far, I haven't really done any testing however. Let's see how this turns out.
Phoeniix
State War Academy
Caldari State
#37 - 2014-09-18 23:58:36 UTC
Neuntausend, What Video card do you have , I still have some issue with Radeonsi on my side (with the iXit repo). Seam to be more stable with Nouveau for now.

For people wanting to test, you also need to enable Use Native d3d9 in winecfg or add a registry key HKCU/System/Wine/Direct3D/UseNative = 1
Neuntausend
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#38 - 2014-09-19 22:22:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Neuntausend
That would be a Radeon HD 7950.

xf86-video-ati 7.4.0, llvm 3.5.0, wine 1.7.26-r2 and mesa-9999 (basically built from git). works flawlessly so far.
Ryek Darkener
Bluestar Enterprises
The Craftsmen
#39 - 2014-09-27 08:17:33 UTC
I would like to throw another thought into the discussion.

As Microsoft is on a clear way to oblivion in terms of usability and service for private users who pay for the stuff, it might be a good , even commerically good, idea to have a stable native LINUX version which is independent from this "operating system".

So my question is not "if". It is "when".
Boyamin
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#40 - 2014-09-27 11:28:56 UTC
FWIW I am currently running eve on the beta steamOS (not derived from another distribution, but the one shipped and downloadable on the Valve website), so I'm pretty sure it's perfectly possible to run eve on a steam machine when they are finally released.

Another thing worth noting is that ccp has in the past maintained an open source opengl client rendering pipeline, as seen by the github project https://github.com/ccpgames/ccpwgl, so it's not a completely remote possibility that this gets picked up again, and made into a useable client.
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