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Thoughts on Tech II Variants for the newer destroyers
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Kellasana
FireStar Inc
#1 - 2014-05-26 22:20:27 UTC
Been thinking about this for a bit, and thought of two possibilities here.

1. Destroyer Escorts: Something thing possibly bridging the gap between AFs and HACs or EAFs and Recons. It's worth a look.

2. Minelayers: Ties with another thought i've had, and that's Signature-seeking mines. Yes, i know, Mines were here before and caused a ton of lag, but hear me out. Have it so the Mine laying destroyer (with a specific new mod for minelaying) can only lay a certain number of active mines (and with decent distances between them, a'la the new deployables). Also, have said mines only "lock" or be set off on ships above a certain size, and have at most, say, a 5km blast radius. Also, to prevent the obvious thinking, have them unable to be laid inside a bubble. basically my thinking here is more "lay mines to thin out larger subcaps" here. It wouldn't say, do anything about that Frigate Wolfpack or Talwar fleet, but it would slow down Ishtars or Tornadoes attempting to offline your Jump Bridge.


As for names, I was thinking "Jackdaw" for the T2 Corax, maybe something like "Perdition" or "Exemplar" for the T2 Dragoon, so on.

I'd like to think this would add an interesting element to the game, not to mention level the playing field a little for smaller alliances defending their territories.

Thoughts, concerns, criticisms?
Yeshuar Antarea
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2014-05-29 13:03:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Yeshuar Antarea
I like the idea of T2 variants of the new destroyers, but the mines would need serious balancing for it to work, and is an entirely different discussion. T2 destroyers would be awesome, perhaps giving them the ability to fit medium weapons (as Battlecruisers such as the Tornado can do with large weapons) would be an idea to look into? Maybe a speed drawback if medium weapons are fit. An idea is to scale them like they are doing with drones, eg. more DPS = Less tank and vice versa, while staying true to each ships racial background - here's a few of my ideas along those lines, anyway...


Corax T2
"Jackdaw" << I like this name, good one :)
-The Corax has always seemed like a bit of a glass hammer to me, decent damage output but somewhat fragile. This ship loses 3 high slots, and gains 1 mid and 2 low. Powergrid / CPU increases to enable the fitting of 3x Heavy Missile Launchers or 4x Light Missile Launchers, (No Rapid Heavy or Assault Heavies) and a bit more shield tank. Obviously having 5 mid slots will need to be balanced with CPU / Powergrid amounts so that it isn't tank overpowered. So if you use light missiles, there's plenty of tank avaliable but it's not silly, however using heavies will slow you down (see below) and have slightly less tank avaliable as armour is sacrificed to make space for the larger weapons systems.

-4 high slots
-5 mid slots
-4 low slots
4 launchers, can fit standard Heavy Missile launchers. +5% Target Painter effectiveness per Caldari Destroyer Skill level. +10% Kinetic damage to Heavy and Light missiles per level, + 5% missile flight velocity per level.-3% Armour amount and -7% Ship maximum velocity per Heavy Missile Launcher fitted. +4% all shield resistances.



Talwar T2
"Vali"
-The Talwar seems to have pretty decent range, and like the Corax, has 7 Missile slots to deal damage with. Given that the Minmatar are decent speed-tankers, I thought that keeping the diminshed MWD penalty was important. Remove 2 high slots and split them over the Mid and Lows. Longer targeting range, ability to fit Heavy missiles as with the Jackdaw. Again, difficult to balance CPU / Powergrid upgrade without giving it too much tank. There is no max velocity penalty for fitting Heavy Missile Launchers, however armour amount suffers a higher reduction. So the same principle of Lights = +tank but -DPS, Heavies = +DPS but - tank, but the Minmatar is faster whereas the Caldari are tankier.

-5 high slots
-4 mid slots
-4 low slots
Less MWD penalty as with Talwar, can fit Heavy Missile Launchers. +3% missile launcher rate of fire, +5% Targeting range per level. +10% Explosive Damage bonus to Heavy and Light missiles per level. -7% Armour amount per Heavy Missile Launcher fitted.


Algos T II
"Otos"
-To be honest, the Algos is pretty awesome. Following the idea of Medium - sized guns on Destroyers, I think dropping down to 5 high slots, 4 turrets is good. 4 low slots for Armour tank, and keep it at 3 mids. Same drawback to speed for fitting heavies. CPU / Powergrid upgrade / balancing. As larger guns require more space, drone storage is reduced to 35 m3, rather than sacrificing armour.

-5 high slots (4 turrets)
-3 mid slots
-4 low slots
35 m3 drone storage
35 mBit bandwith

Can fit Medium Hybrid Turrets. +5% small / medium Hybrid turret tracking speed & range. Same Drone bonuses as Algos, +5% drone range per level. +10% Armour repair effectiveness per level. -7% Ship maximum velocity per medium turret fitted.


Dragoon T II
"Perdition"
-The Dragoon can be pretty effective when employed properly and is quite versatile. Fitting Medium Lasers to a destroyer would eat its capacitor pretty quickly, so I thought giving it the bonus of being able to use Nosferatau modules (the vampire ones) to be able to restore your capacitor past its current level (As the Blood Raider ships will be able to do soon) would be fantastic. Again, cutting down the amount of high slots in exchange for more tank with a Powergrid and CPU upgrade balanced against DPS / Tank. Drone storage reduction due to increased weapon bay size.

-5 high slots, (4 turrets ((3 medium, or 4 small)))
-2 mid slots
-5 low slots
60 m3 drone storage
25 mBit bandwidth
Can fit Medium Lasers. Drone Bonuses as Dragoon stats. +10% Nosferatau range, can drain target ship past your own cap level (as if your own capacitor was empty) per level. +2% Small laser turret damage per level. +3% medium laser tracking speed / rate of fire per level. -7% Ship maximum velocity per Medium turret fitted.

These are just some quick ideas, obviusly need to be balanced out so there's no one ship that overtakes the others in dps or tank. Caldari "Jackdaw" is long - range with a bit of staying power, Minmatar "Vali" has faster rate of fire and more speed but less tank, Gallente "Otos" is a longer - range drone boat, while the Amarr "Perdition" is essentially a heavy - hitting close - range leech. Constructive criticism is welcome Smile
Mattpat139 Sukarala
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#3 - 2014-05-29 14:06:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Mattpat139 Sukarala
Yeshuar Antarea wrote:
I like the idea of T2 variants of the new destroyers, but the mines would need serious balancing for it to work, and is an entirely different discussion. T2 destroyers would be awesome, perhaps giving them the ability to fit medium weapons (as Battlecruisers such as the Tornado can do with large weapons) would be an idea to look into? Maybe a speed drawback if medium weapons are fit. An idea is to scale them like they are doing with drones, eg. more DPS = Less tank and vice versa, while staying true to each ships racial background - here's a few of my ideas along those lines, anyway...


Corax T2
"Jackdaw" << I like this name, good one :)
-The Corax has always seemed like a bit of a glass hammer to me, decent damage output but somewhat fragile. This ship loses 3 high slots, and gains 1 mid and 2 low. Powergrid / CPU increases to enable the fitting of 3x Heavy Missile Launchers or 4x Light Missile Launchers, (No Rapid Heavy or Assault Heavies) and a bit more shield tank. Obviously having 5 mid slots will need to be balanced with CPU / Powergrid amounts so that it isn't tank overpowered. So if you use light missiles, there's plenty of tank avaliable but it's not silly, however using heavies will slow you down (see below) and have slightly less tank avaliable as armour is sacrificed to make space for the larger weapons systems.

-4 high slots
-5 mid slots
-4 low slots
4 launchers, can fit standard Heavy Missile launchers. +5% Target Painter effectiveness per Caldari Destroyer Skill level. +10% Kinetic damage to Heavy and Light missiles per level, + 5% missile flight velocity per level.-3% Armour amount and -7% Ship maximum velocity per Heavy Missile Launcher fitted. +4% all shield resistances.



Talwar T2
"Vali"
-The Talwar seems to have pretty decent range, and like the Corax, has 7 Missile slots to deal damage with. Given that the Minmatar are decent speed-tankers, I thought that keeping the diminshed MWD penalty was important. Remove 2 high slots and split them over the Mid and Lows. Longer targeting range, ability to fit Heavy missiles as with the Jackdaw. Again, difficult to balance CPU / Powergrid upgrade without giving it too much tank. There is no max velocity penalty for fitting Heavy Missile Launchers, however armour amount suffers a higher reduction. So the same principle of Lights = +tank but -DPS, Heavies = +DPS but - tank, but the Minmatar is faster whereas the Caldari are tankier.

-5 high slots
-4 mid slots
-4 low slots
Less MWD penalty as with Talwar, can fit Heavy Missile Launchers. +3% missile launcher rate of fire, +5% Targeting range per level. +10% Explosive Damage bonus to Heavy and Light missiles per level. -7% Armour amount per Heavy Missile Launcher fitted.


Algos T II
"Otos"
-To be honest, the Algos is pretty awesome. Following the idea of Medium - sized guns on Destroyers, I think dropping down to 5 high slots, 4 turrets is good. 4 low slots for Armour tank, and keep it at 3 mids. Same drawback to speed for fitting heavies. CPU / Powergrid upgrade / balancing. As larger guns require more space, drone storage is reduced to 35 m3, rather than sacrificing armour.

-5 high slots (4 turrets)
-3 mid slots
-4 low slots
35 m3 drone storage
35 mBit bandwith

Can fit Medium Hybrid Turrets. +5% small / medium Hybrid turret tracking speed & range. Same Drone bonuses as Algos, +5% drone range per level. +10% Armour repair effectiveness per level. -7% Ship maximum velocity per medium turret fitted.


Dragoon T II
"Perdition"
-The Dragoon can be pretty effective when employed properly and is quite versatile. Fitting Medium Lasers to a destroyer would eat its capacitor pretty quickly, so I thought giving it the bonus of being able to use Nosferatau modules (the vampire ones) to be able to restore your capacitor past its current level (As the Blood Raider ships will be able to do soon) would be fantastic. Again, cutting down the amount of high slots in exchange for more tank with a Powergrid and CPU upgrade balanced against DPS / Tank. Drone storage reduction due to increased weapon bay size.

-5 high slots, (4 turrets ((3 medium, or 4 small)))
-2 mid slots
-5 low slots
60 m3 drone storage
25 mBit bandwidth
Can fit Medium Lasers. Drone Bonuses as Dragoon stats. +10% Nosferatau range, can drain target ship past your own cap level (as if your own capacitor was empty) per level. +2% Small laser turret damage per level. +3% medium laser tracking speed / rate of fire per level. -7% Ship maximum velocity per Medium turret fitted.

These are just some quick ideas, obviusly need to be balanced out so there's no one ship that overtakes the others in dps or tank. Caldari "Jackdaw" is long - range with a bit of staying power, Minmatar "Vali" has faster rate of fire and more speed but less tank, Gallente "Otos" is a longer - range drone boat, while the Amarr "Perdition" is essentially a heavy - hitting close - range leech. Constructive criticism is welcome Smile


Tbh I would rather have a dessie with more tank than one that's even more often primaried than my flycatcher... I believe in resistance tanking so those and some damge bonuses for everyone!

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5376912#post5376912
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2014-05-29 14:16:31 UTC
I'd stick with small turrets if I'm honest, improve the resists and make them more useful in the escort area either with enhanced remote shield/rep bonuses or with limited link like boosts to the pilots leadership skills to enhance those in the squad (on grid though, squad must be within some smallish range)
w3ak3stl1nk
Hedion University
#5 - 2014-05-29 14:35:47 UTC
The theme of dps ships like battle cruiser tech 2 is fleet mechanics. Destroyer changes to interdiction bubbles. Maybe a logistics small hull would make more a sense as there is none... Like bonuses to drone repair rate? Reduction in cost for cyno beacon? Mini tech 2 logistics might be interesting in a tech 2 destroyer

Is that my two cents or yours?
w3ak3stl1nk
Hedion University
#6 - 2014-05-30 01:50:03 UTC
That was a pretty vague answer. Amarr and gallante should get drone repair bonus. Caldari and minmatar should get range rep bonus similar to EWar frigate bonus did.. About 20% per level range of remote armor/shield repair... Maybe

Is that my two cents or yours?
Kellasana
FireStar Inc
#7 - 2014-05-30 06:05:44 UTC
Yeshuar Antarea wrote:
I like the idea of T2 variants of the new destroyers, but the mines would need serious balancing for it to work, and is an entirely different discussion. T2 destroyers would be awesome, perhaps giving them the ability to fit medium weapons (as Battlecruisers such as the Tornado can do with large weapons) would be an idea to look into? Maybe a speed drawback if medium weapons are fit. An idea is to scale them like they are doing with drones, eg. more DPS = Less tank and vice versa, while staying true to each ships racial background - here's a few of my ideas along those lines, anyway...


Corax T2
"Jackdaw" << I like this name, good one :)
-The Corax has always seemed like a bit of a glass hammer to me, decent damage output but somewhat fragile. This ship loses 3 high slots, and gains 1 mid and 2 low. Powergrid / CPU increases to enable the fitting of 3x Heavy Missile Launchers or 4x Light Missile Launchers, (No Rapid Heavy or Assault Heavies) and a bit more shield tank. Obviously having 5 mid slots will need to be balanced with CPU / Powergrid amounts so that it isn't tank overpowered. So if you use light missiles, there's plenty of tank avaliable but it's not silly, however using heavies will slow you down (see below) and have slightly less tank avaliable as armour is sacrificed to make space for the larger weapons systems.

-4 high slots
-5 mid slots
-4 low slots
4 launchers, can fit standard Heavy Missile launchers. +5% Target Painter effectiveness per Caldari Destroyer Skill level. +10% Kinetic damage to Heavy and Light missiles per level, + 5% missile flight velocity per level.-3% Armour amount and -7% Ship maximum velocity per Heavy Missile Launcher fitted. +4% all shield resistances.



Talwar T2
"Vali"
-The Talwar seems to have pretty decent range, and like the Corax, has 7 Missile slots to deal damage with. Given that the Minmatar are decent speed-tankers, I thought that keeping the diminshed MWD penalty was important. Remove 2 high slots and split them over the Mid and Lows. Longer targeting range, ability to fit Heavy missiles as with the Jackdaw. Again, difficult to balance CPU / Powergrid upgrade without giving it too much tank. There is no max velocity penalty for fitting Heavy Missile Launchers, however armour amount suffers a higher reduction. So the same principle of Lights = +tank but -DPS, Heavies = +DPS but - tank, but the Minmatar is faster whereas the Caldari are tankier.

-5 high slots
-4 mid slots
-4 low slots
Less MWD penalty as with Talwar, can fit Heavy Missile Launchers. +3% missile launcher rate of fire, +5% Targeting range per level. +10% Explosive Damage bonus to Heavy and Light missiles per level. -7% Armour amount per Heavy Missile Launcher fitted.


Algos T II
"Otos"
-To be honest, the Algos is pretty awesome. Following the idea of Medium - sized guns on Destroyers, I think dropping down to 5 high slots, 4 turrets is good. 4 low slots for Armour tank, and keep it at 3 mids. Same drawback to speed for fitting heavies. CPU / Powergrid upgrade / balancing. As larger guns require more space, drone storage is reduced to 35 m3, rather than sacrificing armour.

-5 high slots (4 turrets)
-3 mid slots
-4 low slots
35 m3 drone storage
35 mBit bandwith

Can fit Medium Hybrid Turrets. +5% small / medium Hybrid turret tracking speed & range. Same Drone bonuses as Algos, +5% drone range per level. +10% Armour repair effectiveness per level. -7% Ship maximum velocity per medium turret fitted.


Dragoon T II
"Perdition"
-The Dragoon can be pretty effective when employed properly and is quite versatile. Fitting Medium Lasers to a destroyer would eat its capacitor pretty quickly, so I thought giving it the bonus of being able to use Nosferatau modules (the vampire ones) to be able to restore your capacitor past its current level (As the Blood Raider ships will be able to do soon) would be fantastic. Again, cutting down the amount of high slots in exchange for more tank with a Powergrid and CPU upgrade balanced against DPS / Tank. Drone storage reduction due to increased weapon bay size.

-5 high slots, (4 turrets ((3 medium, or 4 small)))
-2 mid slots
-5 low slots
60 m3 drone storage
25 mBit bandwidth
Can fit Medium Lasers. Drone Bonuses as Dragoon stats. +10% Nosferatau range, can drain target ship past your own cap level (as if your own capacitor was empty) per level. +2% Small laser turret damage per level. +3% medium laser tracking speed / rate of fire per level. -7% Ship maximum velocity per Medium turret fitted.

Smile


The problem with your idea with is the entire point of the "destroyer" class is to take out smaller ships. it works for the Naga because a Battlecruiser's role is to have heavy firepower, but remain maneuverable. Still, good idea with the names :)

As for the Mine bit, i'm aware a lot of balancing would be needed, but to be fair, the reason it was so bad before was you could just strap a light missile launcher on and lay hundreds of mines. I'm thinking more a specialized launcher that can only fire...say... fifteen-twenty mines that have to be spaced out a few km from each other. and they'd definitely be natch only nullsec, like bombs.

keep in mind interdictor warp disrupt probes actually are mines of a sort. It's not too great a leap to replace those with some high explosive and a homing device. ;)

back to the Dessies....hmmm... thought... bonus to defender missiles on the Jackdaw? (we'll probably be wishing for that considering the number of Orthri and Garmurs flying around soon)