These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

PLEX - my point of view

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#81 - 2014-05-28 20:31:09 UTC
TedStriker wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
A wise man once said:

Quote:
Money isn't everything.


You can have all the ISK in New Eden, and still be fundamentally terrible at EVE.

ISK, Skills, Ships... none of it actually means anything... pilot skill, and the ability to actually play the game take precedent over everything else.

So no, it's not a cheat code at all in my opinion.

Smile




I know what you want to say, but its kind of naive. Money is not everything, but its most of things. If everything else fails but you have nearly unlimmited ressources you will still win by attrition.

Even the biggest cearbear that gets ganked every day multiple times will outlast the ganker if he can just replace his retriever forever. Why? Because he cheats consequences. He can just ignore the ganker.


Fine words, but the reality is exactly the opposite I'm afraid.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
TedStriker
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#82 - 2014-05-28 20:35:56 UTC
Quote:
Fine words, but the reality is exactly the opposite I'm afraid.


I don't know in what part of the world you are living, but in my part of the world money rules.

If i don't have the right skillset, i pay someone to do the work. If i don't have the power to directly influence somebody, i pay ppl who can (=politics).

Thats how the world works for me....i may be biased.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#83 - 2014-05-28 20:46:55 UTC
TedStriker wrote:
Quote:
Fine words, but the reality is exactly the opposite I'm afraid.


I don't know in what part of the world you are living, but in my part of the world money rules.

If i don't have the right skillset, i pay someone to do the work. If i don't have the power to directly influence somebody, i pay ppl who can (=politics).

Thats how the world works for me....i may be biased.



I'm sure that's the way it is in real life. EVE is structured differently.

I'm never allowed to solve my problems with grouped railguns in real life Cry

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
CaliCartel
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#84 - 2014-05-28 20:58:34 UTC
for you then i would say stay away from plex. for the rest of the game its no problem. also post from your main.
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#85 - 2014-05-28 21:00:43 UTC
TedStriker wrote:
Quote:
Fine words, but the reality is exactly the opposite I'm afraid.


I don't know in what part of the world you are living, but in my part of the world money rules.

If i don't have the right skillset, i pay someone to do the work. If i don't have the power to directly influence somebody, i pay ppl who can (=politics).

Thats how the world works for me....i may be biased.

Ask Gevlon how that's been working out for him in EVE.

You are not the ISK in your wallet.

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#86 - 2014-05-28 22:02:59 UTC
removed some off topic posts.

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode

Senior Lead

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department
Galaxy Pig
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#87 - 2014-05-28 22:13:15 UTC
Antihrist Pripravnik wrote:

The third point is that if I sell PLEX to fill my wallet, I'd effectively eliminate the need for a huge part of gameplay. ;)]


That's the idea.

EVE is so great because it's different things to different people and it's all about specialization. I'm a combat pilot, I don't want to stack capital parts on top of each other or whatever the hell it is you indy people do.

PLEX is not "a necessary evil to combat RMT", it's not an evil at all, it's great.

Some of us don't want EVE to be our second job.

Highsec is owned by players now. Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com
Fabulous Rod
Darkfall Corp
#88 - 2014-05-28 22:21:54 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
A wise man once said:

Quote:
Money isn't everything.


You can have all the ISK in New Eden, and still be fundamentally terrible at EVE.

ISK, Skills, Ships... none of it actually means anything... pilot skill, and the ability to actually play the game take precedent over everything else.

So no, it's not a cheat code at all in my opinion.

Smile



you can always just hire people to do everything for you. That is how Israel does it.
GreasyCarl Semah
A Game as Old as Empire
#89 - 2014-05-28 22:22:32 UTC
I pay cash for all of my accounts because I am meatspace rich but at the same time I keep buying these PLEX things with all my spare billions in ISK. I'm not sure if I am playing this game right....
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#90 - 2014-05-28 22:51:00 UTC
Malcanis wrote:


I'm never allowed to solve my problems with grouped railguns in real life Cry

Then you don't have enough grouped railguns. Certain nations and organizations routinely "solve" some of their problems in this manner.

But yeah, plex are fine.
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#91 - 2014-05-29 00:00:36 UTC
Antihrist Pripravnik wrote:
Sibyyl wrote:
OP, your feelings reminds of me this quote from an Ars Technica article on EVE Online:

Quote:
“Oh, why does that feel so wrong, cheating in my own game?” Petursson asked rhetorically during a presentation at the D.I.C.E. Summit in Las Vegas today. The answer, he said, is key to the emotional connection that EVE’s economic systems manage to lend to what are, when it comes down to it, just bits of code on a server somewhere.

In the EVE universe, all of those bits of code represent the time and effort that the game’s players spent organizing into corporations and alliances, mining virtual resources and protecting their investments, Petursson said.


Also, I've always wondered what your name means to you.. as it is mysteriously constructed of consonants and vowels I've never imagined together before. It would be awesome if you could tell us the origin of your name..

Thanks for the link... I'll read it later.

edit: You hit it right on the spot Smile

ONE TIME OFF-TOPIC REPLY (per request) Smile:
I'll post (if I haven't already... need to check) the name explanation on that thread and here as well: It's not English - it's Serbian. It means "Antichrist's Apprentice". It's not religion based, but rather have roots in high-tech. I've read somewhere that the Antichrist would be a man who could create anything that God creates, but that his creations would be artificial and without a soul. When I started playing I was studying Artificial intelligence in software engineering. Eve is also a game where you are actively creating something in a virtual universe, so each player is a creator. I didn't want to name my character as a singular entity that would rule out other players/creators, so I've added "Apprentice". Blink

I shall have to name an alt to be your master!

Founder of Violet Squadron, a small gang NPSI community! Mail me for more information.

BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie's Space Mediation Service!
ugh zug
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#92 - 2014-05-29 00:47:37 UTC
op is correct. plex and character trading are forms of pay to win in eve.

@CCP Falcon, the skill or ability of said person buying the stuff with cold hard cash is irrelevant to the fact that they are taking shortcuts to grinding over a normal person, there by paying for an advantage.

CCP has a very biased view on the subject because they benefit from plex sales as the value of plex climbs so too does the sale of plex. But in truth it's just in house RMT scheme where players just do the footwork and not Chinese prisoner forced labor while CCP reaps the benefits rather than gold farming networks. The economic impact on the game is just as "bad" to the economy as normal RMT.

That being said I don't think anyone is going to expect CCP to stop character trading or the sale of plex, there is just too much money involved and "Greed is Good."

Want me to shut up? Remove content from my post,1B. Remove my content from a thread I have started 2B.
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#93 - 2014-05-29 02:53:19 UTC
LOL cheat code. Roll

People spending thousands on PLEX just to have their blingy ship poped is one of the greatest things of EVE online.

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~
Derrick Diggler
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#94 - 2014-05-29 03:51:47 UTC
I do not see it as cheating. EVE is a sandbox. That's what we all love about it.
In order to facilitate the sandbox part, plex is here to allow people who do not want to chase ISK related activities to play their own sandbox.
So if you PVP and that is what you like to do, and you lose ships on a steady pace while having no revenue, you will struggle.
Noone wants to struggle that way in a game :).
So, you buy a plex, you sell a plex then buy ships and modules you take out to shoot stuff in the face. Then you get shot in the face and the circle continues. "Thus adding to the chain of life!"

By plex use, noone really loses anything. CCP gets dosh, players get dosh, even charity gets dosh off plexes often. And everyone gets to play their little spaceships the way they want to.

In a sandbox that is my only measurement. Does my style of play hurt others sandbox? And i do not mean if i gank a miner and they yell foul. That is just a part of the game. They will keep mining and i will keep ganking. They will not stop, nor would i want them to. But game changing as in my game play is such that someone can not play their sandbox anymore.

Using a plex does not hurt anyone, but promotes sandbox.

my c2 at least :).
Yuliz Stareine
#95 - 2014-05-29 04:30:48 UTC
TedStriker wrote:

I know what you want to say, but its kind of naive. Money is not everything, but its most of things. If everything else fails but you have nearly unlimmited ressources you will still win by attrition.


Apparently you didn't catch that what he said was euphemistic. All the same, unless one has unlimited cash IRL and an unlimited supply of people willing to purchase plex in-game, then they do not have unlimited game resources. On top of that, I have never heard of a multiboxer defeating a major alliance, so the notion that simply "winning by attrition," is possible appears to be unfounded. What is "winning," in EVE anyhow? Am I "winning," when I get a free rookie ship after I die? I DO actually have an unlimited supply of those.

TedStriker wrote:

Even the biggest cearbear that gets ganked every day multiple times will outlast the ganker if he can just replace his retriever forever. Why? Because he cheats consequences. He can just ignore the ganker.


In the same way that putting another coin in an arcade game you lost is cheating consequence. That is, it isn't. The act of paying for someone else's game time via PLEX sale is a consequence. How does one hand-waive this away as something to be ignored? If you plunked down hundreds of dollars in plex and had all that value ganked away in a weekend, you'd have to be fairly well off to consider that of no consequence. At the very least you're inconvenienced in whatever it is you're trying to accomplish. Unless the ends you seek are to be ganked repeatedly.

TedStriker wrote:

You devs are all so keen on that idea, consequences in EvE....you should get that point i think.


See above.

TedStriker wrote:

Just because we have accepted PLEX as the lesser evil doesn't mean it doesn't follow the principle of money-cheats, because it simply does (its not even a matter of opinion, its just simple fact by observation, it beams ISK to your wallet....)


It's simple really. PLEX isn't a lesser evil. Evil is subjective. What you find repugnant about it, a busy man with extra cash on hand finds to be wonderful. When the process means that both the busy guy with money to burn and the not busy guy with time to burn get together and BOTH benefit from the exchange, without using dubious third-parties as in most other MMOs; you have a tremendous boon to the community.

ISK isn't beamed anywhere except from one player to another in exchange for his game time being paid. The simple observation you're failing to make is that nobody actually loses in this exchange. Value is subjective. Someone wants their time, another one wants his cash (in the form of game time), and so they trade legally. Those who do not wish to participate in the program are not forced to do so. They can pay their sub and avoid dealing in PLEX all together. It's true, they must inhabit a universe where such an exchange is available to those who want it, but given that there are no MMORPG titles I have ever heard of that successfully prevented RMT all the way; that desire is unrealistic.

TL;DR: Opine for an egalitarian sandbox experience if you must, but know that the EVE universe is just as bound by the laws of economics as the real world. If you want to force your notion of right and wrong on others, get into game development or politics yourself. Just don't be surprised when a world full of people with different opinions finds your puritanical views to be something they'd rather not participate in.
Galen Darksmith
Sky Fighters
Rote Kapelle
#96 - 2014-05-29 05:51:24 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
Galen Darksmith wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Kirluin wrote:
I think the PLEX system is the best implementation of "Free to Play" I've seen in an mmo, for all the reasons Malcanis pointed out.




It's not "free to play". "Free to play" can be played without anyone paying. I can go play World of Tanks without spending a dime, if I want. Nobody else has to spend a dime on my behalf, either.


The highlighted sentences are obviously incorrect. Somebody has to pay so that you can play for free. If nobody paid, then the game would be shut down pretty quickly.

The only difference with that with PLEX, the pay-play relationship is much more clearly defined, and it's transacted directly between two players, rather than transacted between the set of "whales" and the set of "minnows" indirectly via the publisher


EVE is not F2P solely because you have an account that MUST be paid for. You can pay it, or you can have someone else pay it for you via a PLEX, but it's gotta get paid or no gametime for you.

F2P games, on the other hand, do not require you to pay. They operate on the principle that some people WILL pay (and shut down if no one does) but at no point can you lose access to your account because you or someone else didn't pay for you...because there's no payment required.


Nope. You can pay for you very first PLEX in game with money you earned, without ever paying a dime of real currency.


That plex didn't appear on the market by some black magic. Someone paid real money for it. They are, effectively, funding your account.


If I go pay WoW, and a friend of mine pays for my account because no way am I paying for that ****, does that make WoW a F2P game?

"EVE is a dark and harsh world, you're supposed to feel a bit worried and slightly angry when you log in, you're not supposed to feel like you're logging in to a happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures, that's what hello kitty online is for." -CCP Wrangler
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#97 - 2014-05-29 08:54:57 UTC
Plex is the only reason a lot of full time working players can play the game without doing hours of stupid wow-style grinding.
Plex is not cheating, its gaming for employed adults.

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP
Kirluin
#98 - 2014-05-29 14:54:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Kirluin
deleted.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#99 - 2014-05-29 14:58:42 UTC
Kirluin wrote:
deleted.


Confirmed

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Kirluin
#100 - 2014-05-29 15:02:44 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Kirluin wrote:
deleted.


Confirmed


deleted because as I posted a fantastic, devastating riposte I realized:


YHBT.
YHL.
HAND.

was where I was heading. :)