EVE New Citizens Q&A

I've been considering a gameplay idea that may or may not be kind of silly, but with EVE's reputation as a heavily market-driven game maybe it's worth a shot, if the features that might be able to support the idea in question (still) work.


First, some context:

For the most part my MMO background consists on FFXI, which is about as PvE as it gets, and has some differences from EVE that between them and my mindset, I guess, encouraged me to play a certain way, such as never buying something if I can get it or a reasonable alternative through other means - the game isn't generous in its gil distribution, gets demanding sometimes for class-important items like spell scrolls which are expected of players, inventory is limited, so is the auction house, crafting takes a lot of time, effort and expensive failure, but with the exception of consumable items like food or some forms of ammo, most things tend to stick with you, as equipment doesn't degrade, so it can be worth it to put effort toward a big item, since you're unlikely to lose it unless you're hacked or something, or manage to get something even better and sell it (or drop it when selling or trading isn't an option).

Very few things in EVE are permanent compared to FFXI: your skills (assuming an updated clone in a safe location) and rookie ship are all you can ever count on having, so perhaps they should be a focus. Everything else feels temporary, but it's tempting to make the most of it.

Different as both games are, they do share something of a "secret superpower" common to practically all MMOs - your character is functionally immortal due to not having to worry about having to eat, drink, sleep breathe and spend money getting these things - this is what allows so many characters in MMO setting to become "adventurers" instead of having to hold a full time job to survive.

In most games then, your job becomes "saving the world" by taking down whomever is supposed to be a threat - you don't actually need the money, it's a means to an end - gear, transportation, etc... - which isn't actually the real end, and by the time you've dealt with the actual end, at least for MMOs the devs tend to have already added other motivations to keep you around, be it neater gear, or hints at more stories and threats to take down.

Now, EVE has PvE and lore, and I'm curious about them, though it has a reputation for its real stories being the players', and these things don't have to be mutually exclusive.

The freeform side of EVE does inspire, at least to me, the question of what one can do if survival isn't a concern, and my pet answer is "try to live without ISK".

Now, I know this is kind of impossible taken to it's extreme - a lot of aspects of the gave involve giving ISK to game entities (NPC agents, services like ship repairs and insurance or clones, etc…), sometimes getting some from them.
What I wonder is if it's possible to play EVE while entirely avoiding the exchange of ISK with other players.

I've kind of already failed at this, since different career tutorial NPCs gave me repeated skill books, and I ended up selling those (I guess alts buy them instead of doing the tutorials). But I actually haven't bought anything from anyone, I think.
Fortunately, I did find out how to identify NPC vendors (those selling 555 skill books on starter stations, keeping those available for about a year).

So, the game doesn't look like it'd be completely locked out for me, although perhaps a bit limited - the experience seems worthwhile for now.

A little research reveals a few options to get this to work:

- Some skill books, modules, implants and ships can be acquired through loyalty points - some specific, simpler ones can be acquired through certain missions (tutorials for sure, supposedly Sisters of EVE arc, got at least one Diplomacy book from a mission in Minmatar space)
- It's possible to trade (groups of) items for (groups of) items with players, although nobody seems to use this on the searches I ran; it may only be worth it above certain values, since there's apparently a 10K fee per transaction; also, this seems more likely in a trade hub with sufficient movement due to the rarity of the situation (I'd rather try for Minmatar space than Jita, but that's a personal preference in these early days which could change later).
- Since original blueprints can also be bought from NPCs, there's also the option of manufacturing your own stuff if you have the required skills and materials - perhaps a slow path to get things done, especially if you mine and reprocess materials yourself, but I figure that can also help narrow down what you focus on. I actually resorted to this to fill out an Industry or Market tutorial mission - gave me a bit of a motivation to train to use the item in question while at it. This may involve optimizing a few industrial skills, but since I'm building for myself, not for profit, it's a long term investment where things like profit margins are almost a non-concern (let's see how expensive those clone upgrades get though…)

Ideally I'd also be able to adquire stuff by exchanging it for services, but this early on in the game who'd hire a new player by himself for anything? Most services I'm aware of tend to involve deliveries or combat, and those tend to be performed by groups, so I don't see people paying anything to add just one guy to their fleet.
Some corps give ships and skill books to their members to help make sure they're capable of doing what they're expected to, but this game doesn't seem to encourage that attitude toward unknown outsiders. Still, everything else I mentioned above regarding getting stuff still seems mostly possible.

Too silly an idea? Any precedent for it? Any tips I may have overlooked?

It doesn't look easy, but not impossible either - I get ammo and modules from rat wrecks all the time, I still have a few ships from the tutorials (and theoretically I can do more sets of those, there's 3 sets per faction, if what I read is correct).

I figure this isn't a popular option as it would make me something of an ISK sink in the game (money going into NPCs won't go to other players), but it's not like an experiment like this would have much of an effect on the game.

I wonder if it would be worth it to write a blog or something about it, assuming it lasts long enough - poking around for alternative ways to do thing gets to be a bit educational, at least.

So you have a grand total of 12 ships (give or take, with most requiring cross-training), and whatever handful of (likely useless, because you don't _need_ another 125mm railgun) mods you can scrape off the rats...

While "everything" does drop over time ... you won't exactly have enough of anything to actually use in order to fit a ship (not to mention ammo). Furthermore, you will have to go out to low/null to get a fair number of these mods, where you will lose your ship.

Remember -- ships and modules are intended to wear out (read - get exploded) and be replaced.

It can be a fun experiment ... but it will turn into a god-awful experience in relatively short order.

I'll _need_ another 125mm railgun if my other one got exploded along with the ship it was fitted in, even if it goes into Reaper #38 :)

With the skillbooks I already have injected, I can keep training for the basic stuff and stick with my starting faction stuff for a while - I did get some drops that require other factions' typical skills, so at some point I might go for the cross-training required to put those to use.

I think you've missed a big part of this game... just because you want to play PVE, doesn't mean anyone else is, nor that they will respect your desires to avoid PvP... you will, at some point, come through a gate, right into a warp bubble gate camp and get blown up by the players sitting there waiting for you... happens in low sec, null sec, and even in high sec. - you will not be able to avoid it, and if you are not fitted for it ( and just using stuff that drops, you won't be), you will die from it, and lose all your precious PvE rewards that you are flying.

uhm.....

btw. you can PvP in T1 fit ships

While you are generally right, I'd like to point on your "bubbles in lowsec and even highsec", which is wrong, as bubbles can be deployed only in nullsec. Lowsec is okay for fast ship or pod (unless smartbombed or fast locking ship).

Very, very inefficient. The larger ship BPOs are very expensive (600 million for battlecruiser, over a billion for battleship). Doable, but impractical.

Being possible or not depents on the goals you want to achieve by doing that. Do you want to get modules and ships for PvE? Will probably get hard as hell. Do you want just to build cheap modules and mine? Way easier. I even heard of a player that's being just sightseeing the systems in a pod for some years now. It is said that he is already rich from all the rookie ships he gets ...

However I don't see much reason to just ignore isk completly, as it will probably make it just boring instead of challenging. I'd advise to set a low roof value to keep in you wallet, say a million, and store the rest of the isk in an alt or corp wallet. It would be interesting to keep track of how much you've saved doing your own stuff or trading items. Then you do something with this isk, like sponsoring newer players or something like this.

Another nice rule would be to do just "indirect trades" if needed. Let's say you have ship A but want ship B. Sell ship A to the market, buy ship B, any profit you had you deposit in the external wallet

With rules like this I think it would be a nice "playthrough", but simply avoiding isk at all costs would become boring quickly

As EVE is a sandbox, there is no such thing as a "playthrough".

So, depending on what you consider a "playthrough", it may be anything from trivial to impossible without exchanging ISK.
Completing the Career agents just with the stuff you find and are given is trivial.
Completing the SoE epic arc is possible, but it's either moderately difficult or a long grind in L1 missions to find those meta 4 items you want.
Doing L4 missions, the L4 epic arcs or Incursions will be quite a challenge and/or require a looooong grind.

Of course, if you exchange a PLEX for items, the "no ISK to other players" limitation becomes trivial. A "hey, for RP reasons I don't want to touch ISK, here's a PLEX vs items" contract should be fulfilled, especially if the items are worth a bit less than the PLEX. It might take a while, as most players will suspect a trap, but someone will read the details and find it fair.