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Why is isboxing legal?

First post
Author
Princess Sparrow
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#1 - 2014-05-26 19:26:23 UTC
How is this not against the EULA? Every system is full of huge skiff fleets with 20+ isboxing robots.
xPredat0rz
Grey Templars
Initiative Mercenaries
#2 - 2014-05-26 19:37:30 UTC
Because they arent robots. The pilot still has to click and run everything. You do so on one screen and the command is then repeated over the rest.

Princess Sparrow
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#3 - 2014-05-26 20:02:03 UTC
Semantics. It might as well be botting.
Jeremy Kamira
#4 - 2014-05-26 20:38:20 UTC
I agree, i thought that if the computer is clicking for you then it is considered botting.
Zifrian
The Pannion Domin
Ghostbirds
#5 - 2014-05-26 20:51:44 UTC
Because it's a grey area and CCP is a business. 20 accounts x $15 or 1 account x $15?

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Otti Ottig
Hesso Business
#6 - 2014-05-26 21:08:37 UTC
it isn't legal, has been stated several times by GM's... but so far CCP is ignoring it.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#7 - 2014-05-26 21:30:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Deleted. See below
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#8 - 2014-05-26 23:28:04 UTC
Click propagation over multiple clients is something they haven't declared illegal specifically, though it's also possibly not legal under the EULA. It's a vague area.
Other functions of ISBoxer that actually automate things macro like are outright illegal and being caught using those will get you banned, be it one account or 200.
Otti Ottig
Hesso Business
#9 - 2014-05-27 03:41:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Otti Ottig
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Click propagation over multiple clients is something they haven't declared illegal specifically, ...
.


exactly that has been declared as EULA breaking by definition. might sound like an excuse but it's a year ago i was following the topic and I can't go through all the threads to find the line.
FunGu Arsten
B52 Bombers
#10 - 2014-05-27 11:06:40 UTC  |  Edited by: FunGu Arsten
As a multiboxer myself... Mass boxing gives me more challenges.. It keeps me here... But if ccp declares it illegal i could stop paying for -ashittion of accounts- and play a single account, or go to woodensticks ? Either way,there's no issue for me .. The only difference will be ccps income or i change my gamesetup(hardware).

Basicly either ccp bans all multiple login capabilities or allows people players to use the hardware/software they come up with. The software like isboxing isnt an issue.- because all software to replicate commands can be replaced through hardware or clever solutions. My user input on a key replicated through software or wooden sticks on keybaord and mouse or even hardware modification to send mouse /keyoard signals to multiple pcs - software to command multple pcs?


Yes multiboxing has advantages(also disadvantages), but banning isboxer has little effect if you still allow multple accounts...
So ask yourself: do you want to stop multiboxing (at any level) or are you mad that others do it better, more efficient.....etc ?
FunGu Arsten
B52 Bombers
#11 - 2014-05-27 11:13:51 UTC
Princess Sparrow wrote:
How is this not against the EULA? Every system is full of huge skiff fleets with 20+ isboxing robots.


Would you be less mad if these blobs are not controlled through isboxer?
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#12 - 2014-05-27 13:00:36 UTC
Otti Ottig wrote:
it isn't legal, has been stated several times by GM's... but so far CCP is ignoring it.
What GM has stated that it isn't legal? And do you not understand that GM work for CCP, so if CCP says that it's fine, it is, right?

Anyway, this discussion has been done hundreds of times. It's not going to change anytime soon, because CCP don't want to nuke their sub numbers into the ground just so you whiners can stop whining about isboxer.

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Princess Sparrow
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#13 - 2014-05-27 13:25:16 UTC
FunGu Arsten wrote:
Princess Sparrow wrote:
How is this not against the EULA? Every system is full of huge skiff fleets with 20+ isboxing robots.


Would you be less mad if these blobs are not controlled through isboxer?


Yes. If someone was manually running 20 clients then they deserve the fruits of the labor because they are earning it. But when you are replicating commands you certainly aren't putting in the effort to balance the income.
FunGu Arsten
B52 Bombers
#14 - 2014-05-27 13:52:16 UTC
Princess Sparrow wrote:
FunGu Arsten wrote:
Princess Sparrow wrote:
How is this not against the EULA? Every system is full of huge skiff fleets with 20+ isboxing robots.


Would you be less mad if these blobs are not controlled through isboxer?


Yes. If someone was manually running 20 clients then they deserve the fruits of the labor because they are earning it. But when you are replicating commands you certainly aren't putting in the effort to balance the income.


Then using a program to arrange screens and videostreams is no issue.. Good to know most multibox miners will hve no impact ;) or just need to buy bigger/more screens.

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#15 - 2014-05-27 15:38:52 UTC
FunGu Arsten wrote:
Princess Sparrow wrote:
FunGu Arsten wrote:
Princess Sparrow wrote:
How is this not against the EULA? Every system is full of huge skiff fleets with 20+ isboxing robots.


Would you be less mad if these blobs are not controlled through isboxer?


Yes. If someone was manually running 20 clients then they deserve the fruits of the labor because they are earning it. But when you are replicating commands you certainly aren't putting in the effort to balance the income.


Then using a program to arrange screens and videostreams is no issue.. Good to know most multibox miners will hve no impact ;) or just need to buy bigger/more screens.
That's actually the biggest benefit of isboxer, the screen management. It allows you to swap and change between screens a bit easier. The actual multiple clicking thing is a nice RSI reducing thing, but it actually reduces efficiency, since it's harder to make sure people are on different rocks, make sure that cycles aren't overrunning, etc when running them manually.

Lets face it though, as always this comes down to whiners failing to understand how these things work, then actively refusing to learn how these things work and demanding the game be changed in their favour. Newsflash, mining blobs existed before isboxer and were whined about at pretty much the same rate.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Praxis Ginimic
Best Kept Frozen.
Domain Research and Mining Inst.
#16 - 2014-05-27 17:36:38 UTC
If you really don't like the isboxer miners then do something about it. I suggest isboxing a fleet of gank cats.
Jeremy Kamira
#17 - 2014-05-27 17:37:59 UTC
Otti Ottig wrote:
it isn't legal, has been stated several times by GM's... but so far CCP is ignoring it.


CCP is ignoring it because more accounts being isboxed=more money for CCP
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#18 - 2014-05-27 19:37:34 UTC
I think I misread what I quoted above Oops

CCP has made it abundantly clear that they will not endorse any third-party software as legal, as they don't control that software, and changes to it could be made which later break their policies.

If you use isboxer within the EULA and other rules, then you probably are okay, but do so at your own risk, and CCP can on a whim change their mind and ban all your accounts.

Third Pary Policies wrote:
We do not endorse or condone the use of player-made software or any other third party applications or software that confers an unfair benefit to players. We may, in our discretion, tolerate the use of applications or other software that simply enhance player enjoyment in a way that maintains fair gameplay. However, if any third party application or other software is used to gain any unfair advantage, or is used for purposes beyond its intended use, or if the application or other software violates other parts of the EULA, we may fully enforce our rights to prohibit such use, including player bans. Please use player-made or other third party software at your own risk.

GM Lelouch wrote:
In other words, it is unfortunately impractical for us to evaluate whether specific pieces of software can be used without breaking EVE's EULA/ToS. This post should not be taken as endorsement for utilizing specific pieces of software/hardware with EVE, but as a guideline to what is acceptable.

Our general stance towards the concept of multiboxing has not changed but we cannot guarantee that the EULA is being upheld should you use any of the software/hardware mentioned by name in this post, nor will we at EVE customer support be able to officially endorse or sanction specific third party multiboxing programs.

Players wishing to multibox are responsible for familiarizing themselves with our EULA and Terms of Service...
Rankan
State War Academy
Caldari State
#19 - 2014-05-27 21:12:40 UTC
OP if you encounter someone you think is botting then file a petition instead of crapping up the forums with another post whining about ISBoxer.
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
#20 - 2014-05-27 22:58:01 UTC
This topic has been debated many times before.

Thread locked.

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