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EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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The reasons why I got bored of the game last time

First post
Author
Stevie Fiol
Crucial Contribution
#1 - 2014-05-26 08:04:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Stevie Fiol
I played this game before....just wanted to brainstorm here a little about the main reasons why I quit last time.

(Don't worry though....it probably wasn't for forever. Just until I get the will back again. I still think it is a very "cute" game and think that every self-respecting gamer should have played it. Also the discussions and everything around the game itself is also amazing.)

CO-OP

I felt there was a quite a lot lacking here. For a multiplayer game there is a whole lot of soloing going on. It would be great if the game premiered co-op more, not just for super serious players in null sec alliances or in PvP-fleets but in the gameplay as a whole.

Missions, mining, trading, salvaging and industry are all types of gameplay where co-op is just not premiered enough.

I will talk more about alts later also and about how they destroy the game. It is typical of players to have alts doing stuff that other players should be doing.

GUI

Lets face it. The user interface is very advanced indeed but there really should be a much more streamlined and default type of GUI avaliable also, without all of theese windows all over the place.

COMBAT

Combat should be much more graphic I think. By default the whole battlefield should show much better and the standard keyboard keys for steering your vessel should be much better and intiutive...

ALTS

I don't know who thought of this but personally I think it sucks. This type of semi-afk playstyle should not be in a multiplayer game where there is supposed to be a real human behind every player. CCP even claims to ban bots while on the other hand supporting this kind of semi-"botting"-playstyle where one player alone can fullfill the roles that where supposed to be filled by other players.

Not to talk about the "disconnect" you would feel when playing the game on more than one screen.

-----------------

Please take my thoughts for what they are...thoughts.

If someone could link to my post from the General section or even quote me there that would be greatly appreciated as a don't seem to be able to post there now (probably because of the trial account).

Peace!
Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#2 - 2014-05-26 08:41:32 UTC
First of all, yes, confirming that you are restricted here because of trial account.

Okay so on to the rest:

CO-OP:
Well I can agree with it being more highlighted, but really is more having to do with it all being a sandbox where you arent handheld in how to do things. Nearly everything you do in EVE can be done better in a group. It's your job to recognize how and to organize said group. Or at the very least join a group that already know what they're doing (i.e. a corporation)

GUI:
In most regards many are in agreement here, and the GUI really is improving a lot over the years. The game has been live since 2003 and been in production since the late 90s, so yeah there's quite a few spots where things were done in stupid ways. But year after year (since about 2011) CCP has been devoted making sure these interfaces get the love they deserve. The other problem is the raw amount of data that needs to be represented. The last few overhauls were with the panel system, which can be rearranged and collapsed, faction warfare interfaces, the bounty boards, and most recently the scanning system and tool tips have seen some great improvements.

Point is, this cluster **** of windows you're seeing all have a purpose, so you can't remove them without removing functionality or features from the game. It;s more about rearranging the windows to be more intuitive we you need to use them. Look into the HUGE industry changes that are slated for July: http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/industry-ui/

Combat:
Well, yeah you and every other newb that has ever touched the game wanted this. But here's the problem. EVE is entirely too tactical for that sort of thing. If you want thing to be more visual then just zoom in. But you'll quickly find that you feel like you're too restricted. We do most our fights zoomed way out to get a great overall view of the battle. It's meant to play more like an RTS than a FPS.

This become much more clear as you start getting into the details of PVP. When you're trying to manage your guns, your tank, your speed, your angular velocity to your target, and your position in relation to all the others on the field all while trying to keep your modules from overheating and keeping your cap in balance....it can get hectic. Btw did I mention that during all of this you'll probably have an adrenaline rush too? Because you will if you put any value on the time and effort you put into affording the ship you're using.

Alts:
This rides a fine line. When it comes to bots, yeah we all hate the bots. But what people are doing with alts is they are actually controlling both of them. Which plays right into the RTS idea I just mentioned. In some of the extreme cases people use duplication programs to make the same click happen on like 5 clients at once to which CCP has stated is okay because they're still controlling the clients manually.

Here's the balancing factor though. Sure the individual person makes more money at a time, but he has to split it between both characters. If he lives off of PLEXes he still has to pay for them both. If playing on two clients at once is immersion breaking for you then just don't do it.

You wanted co-op didnt you? Well then make a friend instead of an alt.



I don't want you to think that we all think you're just blatantly wrong about everything, just that you need a bit of perspective on how our little world turns. If you wanna see change badly enough try contacting a CSM member to get the devs to hear about it directly. In regards to the GUI, they'd probably agree in some aspects. In regard to co-op, yeah the new player experience could highlight that more, and CCP is aware of that. Combat changes, well the system works now, and any changes to make it flashier are probably low priority, besides maybe adding in damage effects to our ships. Alts aren't going anywhere though.

The Drake is a Lie

Stevie Fiol
Crucial Contribution
#3 - 2014-05-26 08:55:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Stevie Fiol
Xercodo wrote:

..... EVE is entirely too tactical for that sort of thing. If you want thing to be more visual then just zoom in. But you'll quickly find that you feel like you're too restricted. We do most our fights zoomed way out to get a great overall view of the battle. It's meant to play more like an RTS than a FPS.


First of thank for your comments.

Regarding this part I'd like to point out what looks like a misunderstanding. When I said I wanted a better graphical representation of the battle....I actually didn't ask for a first person view style thing. Rather I was implementing the "zoomed out"/tactical view should be the default in battle and made much better...with possibility for an automatic camera position and whatnot....(for example)

About the industry patch.....yeah that sounds very nice. One of the reasons I started looking at the game again actually Smile
Jur Tissant
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2014-05-26 12:35:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Jur Tissant
Group play in EVE is heavily carried by players - on the contrary to your claim, mining is much better as a group activity than solo because you can get fleet and Orca boosts. But there should be some effort to encourage cooperative play on CCP's part, especially in missions where teaming up reduces your reward.

The interface is a little confusing, but there's a lot of information to convey in EVE. You have industry and contracts and market orders and missions and corp management etc. Can you suggest specifics on how to streamline the interface or make it easier for new players to grasp?

Manual steering in EVE is pretty undercooked and could be useful in a variety of situations. I could imagine seeing an arrow key or WASD control scheme where some decals would appear around your ship indicating which direction each key would take you.

Finally, on the topic of alts: I doubt many players have a problem with a player using his alt to haul while his main toon mines, salvage behind him in missions, scout ahead in null, etc. There's a lot of division on the use of ISBoxer to command whole fleets of alts with the same clicks as one or two characters. Personally I have a problem with being able to command a whole fleet with that amount of effort, but bear in mind that 30 multiboxers sell 30 PLEX a month for CCP...
Ethikos
Doomheim
#5 - 2014-05-26 16:46:29 UTC
On the group play angle, I am not sure which corporations you have had experience with. I know for a fact that there are very large corporations out there that support a more casual style of gaming. I would argue that EvE, when compared to other MMOs, has far fewer people playing solo due to the inherit sandbox / consequence nature of EvE. I think you may have gotten the wrong impression. If your serious about giving EvE a go, enable your full account and join one of the new player friendly corporations such as Brave Newbies / EvE University / Red vs Blue (they dont accept trial accounts for obvious reasons).

As for the user interface, its has improved and is improving. However, as was mentioned above the information being relayed to you via those windows is important. It is also customizable to an extreme extent in regards to what information is displayed. As you get into PvP, you realize that you want that ability to customize and a cookie cutter "one size fits all" UI would greatly restrict you. A lot of people utilized EvE University UI set up (with modifications based on specific needs). Google EvE University and Overview to take a look.

Manual steering, I actually like that aspect of EvE. Its simple. Double click in space where you want to go. Remember that in EvE you can travel in any direction. As such the standard back / front / left / right key set up would be of extremely limited value. You would need something like back / front / left / right / up / down / left up / right up / left down / right down and even then your much more limited compared to the person just double clicking. Maybe CCP will come up with something in regards to that, time will tell.
Tyrendian Biohazard
The Bastards
Sedition.
#6 - 2014-05-26 17:11:08 UTC
Co-op - The game is full of it, and almost every activity is better with it, but you have to go out and find the social part yourself. Sometimes that means going through 4 or 5 player corps before finding one that suits you best. There isn't a function like other MMOs for finding people to help you with specific things (except the corp finder, which is general), so a little work is needed.

GUI - Don't think of the UI as archaic, think of it as modular. Yes it may look like spreadsheet windows, but it can provide you with a lot of useful information once you have it setup the way you like.

In terms of a tactical overview, maybe something like this would suit you? Where when you hover over your modules that work on various ranges it tells you exactly what is in range based on the sphere it created. Combined with an overview to show ships, velocity, etc, is almost everything you would need for a tactical overview for combat.

Combat - The combat varies depending on what ship your are flying. Flying frigs required a lot of quick thinking and sometimes manual piloting. Try running fast tackle in some fleets for a few weeks. You'll find its much more than "hit approach target, overheat MWD, scram". Angles, weapons tracking, speed all come into play in large amount during this type of stuff, and the best way to pilot the situation is sometimes manual piloting. As far as how manual piloting is done, I don't think that'll ever change. The server works on one second tickets, and I can imagine a lot of gamers getting frustrated their commands aren't "registering" when the server when they try to send 5 at once. Think if combat in terms of naval combat, constantly thinking ahead rather than immediate use.

Alts - Nothing is wrong with alts. Everything is wrong with bots. I myself keep several alts for scanning, hauling, mining, and now flying capital ships. Even mutli-boxers are actually commanding their characters to do things and monitoring parameters about them. If someone can afford the accounts, there isn't really any harm.

Twitch streamer and EVE NT tournament broadcaster.

Sugar Kyle
Middle Ground
#7 - 2014-05-26 18:26:23 UTC
Thanks for posting Stevie.

CO-OP in Eve is heavily player dependent. I to look forward to a day when some of the PvE options, such as missioning, are easier to join together with a companion. However, things like mining as pointed out are better with people but the togetherness is done through social decision. I get the feeling you are looking for more hard coded options vs the classic 'lets make this work' methodology that many players engage in?

The user interfaces are being overhauled. It just takes a bit to rip out and rebuild it from the ground up. Which ones did you like or dislike the most? The inventory windows have a tree system. I don't know if you did or did not find this to see if it was a better method for you.

Combat is a hard one. People in Eve engage in it in many different ways. Preset situations will drive people crazy. On that same note a better preset for new players might be developed. Do you find the scrolled back fight more engaging?

Alts - Both the sin and gift of Eve. One thing about this game is that there is so much make work many of us cannot imagine someone handling every single job for us. Such as lighting a cyno and sitting there for ten minutes as your complete and only job. Alts are an endless give and take mechanic in Eve. I admit I cannot see living without mine.

Again, thanks for the feedback.

Member of CSM9 and CSM10.

Viserys Anstian
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2014-05-27 13:26:24 UTC
Mining should only be done as a group. Some of the best times I've had have been mining. But it's not because of breaking rocks. It was the friends we had in team speak all talking together, doing stupid pranks to one another in our barges, etc. Mining for 2 hours in a corp group that is talking to one another, is actually quite fun. Also, it usually ended in us getting riled up and getting in out frigates to get blown up in a blaze of glory.

SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#9 - 2014-05-27 15:12:22 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
Stevie Fiol wrote:


CO-OP

I felt there was a quite a lot lacking here. For a multiplayer game there is a whole lot of soloing going on. It would be great if the game premiered co-op more, not just for super serious players in null sec alliances or in PvP-fleets but in the gameplay as a whole.

Missions, mining, trading, salvaging and industry are all types of gameplay where co-op is just not premiered enough.

I will talk more about alts later also and about how they destroy the game. It is typical of players to have alts doing stuff that other players should be doing.


There are plenty of opportunities for cooperating with other players - it just doesn't always mean undocking and flying around together.

Quote:
GUI

Lets face it. The user interface is very advanced indeed but there really should be a much more streamlined and default type of GUI avaliable also, without all of theese windows all over the place.


Unless you can do this without the loss of functionality provided by those windows, this just isn't going to work. It's like saying, "The cockpit of this airliner is very advanced, but there should really be an alternative cockpit with just a yoke, peddles, and a throttle, without all of those knobs and dials and doohickeys all over the place."

Quote:
COMBAT

Combat should be much more graphic I think. By default the whole battlefield should show much better and the standard keyboard keys for steering your vessel should be much better and intiutive...


Keyboard keys for steering your vessel..?


Quote:
ALTS

I don't know who thought of this but personally I think it sucks. This type of semi-afk playstyle should not be in a multiplayer game where there is supposed to be a real human behind every player. CCP even claims to ban bots while on the other hand supporting this kind of semi-"botting"-playstyle where one player alone can fullfill the roles that where supposed to be filled by other players.

Not to talk about the "disconnect" you would feel when playing the game on more than one screen.

-----------------

Please take my thoughts for what they are...thoughts.

If someone could link to my post from the General section or even quote me there that would be greatly appreciated as a don't seem to be able to post there now (probably because of the trial account).

Peace!


If you don't want to multibox, then don't.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/