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"The Cost of Freedom" Research Feed
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Hanno Ashfer
Doomheim
#1 - 2011-09-10 21:46:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Hanno Ashfer
Opening transmission feed....

Greetings fellow denzens of New Eden.

Some of you may remember some time ago I began researching for a book I deemed "The Cost of Freedom" which aim was to analyze and interpret the changes and affects the liberation of slaves of the 9th Generation would have not only on the Empire, but the galactic community as a whole.

I've returned from my long absence to find the world torn apart by political upheaval and the resurgence of the Sansha hoards, but I'd prefer to not allow current events detour from my research at hand. I'm appealing to my fellow capsuleers again for help in creating this piece of literature that will hopefully enlighten not only those dwelling within Imperial Space but those who don't understand Amarrian Society nor it's practices.

What I truely need is interviews from Matari, either ex-slaves, 'liberation fighters', or simply by standards.
Jason Galente
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2011-09-11 01:58:43 UTC
Freedom and Liberty at any and all costs.


Freedom, by my definition, is the state of having all your basic inalienable rights protected from the government.

Liberty by my definition is the right to choose unrestricted by the government: what it is you are choosing varies on situation.

Only the liberty of the individual assures the prosperity of the whole. And this foundation must be defended.

At any cost
Hanno Ashfer
Doomheim
#3 - 2011-09-11 02:22:10 UTC
So what is you take on the liberation of Matari slaves by the Empress?

Would you consider it a good thing?
Half Cocked Jack
Un4seen Development
Goonswarm Federation
#4 - 2011-09-11 03:41:54 UTC
I won my freedom through gumption and opportunism rather than through the Empress's edict. I'm not sure it is applicable to your research, but feel free to ping my neocom if you are interested in setting up an interview. I'll be happy to contribute material for your work.
Arkady Sadik
Gradient
Electus Matari
#5 - 2011-09-11 08:03:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Arkady Sadik
Hanno Ashfer wrote:
So what is you take on the liberation of Matari slaves by the Empress?

Would you consider it a good thing?


I noted this in another thread a while ago, but I'll repeat it here, as it might be interesting to you.

The Empress liberating all slaves of the 9th generation and older was an impressive PR move. Ms. Sarum having broken multiple imperial laws and traditions to get the throne needed support wherever she could get it. The people in slavery for that long are the most likely to be the most indoctrinated, so "losing" them will cause the least harm to the Empire, while giving the Empress much-needed support among the more progressive Amarrians - low danger, high gain. Her next move, calling for a "new Reclaiming" with the 24th Imperial Crusade, gave her the much-needed support among the more conservative circles. Very smart, really.

Next, liberating this amount of people at the same time put the Republic under a lot of pressure. While not all of them returned, quite a few did. It's no secret that the Republic, born out of a rebellion merely 133 years ago and having been at war for greater parts of that time is not the richest of the empires. Having to deal with so many people returning, being unable (and unwilling!) to turn them back nor really to cater for them put us under quite some stress. Luckily, it seems we have managed. (Again, apologies to those refugees still in sub-par accomodations - we are working on it.)

All in all, I have to say that I am very happy for the millions of people who were freed this way. But I do not think it happened out of generosity or kindness - it was a cunning plan to ensure popular support for the controversial empress and to put the Republic under pressure to support the following invasion.
Ava Starfire
Khushakor Clan
#6 - 2011-09-11 12:57:20 UTC
The liberation of the 9th and older generations was a step in the right direction although, as Mr. Sadik says above, I find myself questioning the motive from time to time. However, in the interest of promoting understanding, I generally err on the side of benevolence, and believe that may, this just might be a sign, however small and deeply concealed, that the Empire is realizing how horrid, destructive, and simply archaic slavery is.

The Republic did have to try to absorb tens of millions ( No idea on actual numbers, I wish I did ) of new immigrants ( so much for the idea that those released will love the empire and wish to stay after so long a period, eh? ) and it is a poor nation; the fact that the lion's share of our resources go to the war effort does not help. The influx of refugees has strained support services beyond the breaking point, as I discovered when staying in a refugee camp a while ago... food, water, and basic medical services were few, and sometimes, simply nonexistent, crime and violence rampant. Shame on us, for this.

If it was a benevolent act, a simple gesture of kindness, then I humbly thank the Empress and pray for more progress. If it was not, It was a smart PR move, and places the focus on the social services in the Republic, highlighting our failures.

Either way, the Empress and the Empire comes out looking rather good, hmm?

"There is no strength in numbers; have no such misconception." -Jayka Vofur, "Warfare in the North"
Jason Galente
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2011-09-11 13:13:51 UTC
Hanno Ashfer wrote:
So what is you take on the liberation of Matari slaves by the Empress?

Would you consider it a good thing?


I would consider it essential

Only the liberty of the individual assures the prosperity of the whole. And this foundation must be defended.

At any cost
Hanno Ashfer
Doomheim
#8 - 2011-09-11 15:27:54 UTC
Half Cocked Jack wrote:
I won my freedom through gumption and opportunism rather than through the Empress's edict. I'm not sure it is applicable to your research, but feel free to ping my neocom if you are interested in setting up an interview. I'll be happy to contribute material for your work.


That would be excellent. In my research I've found very few Matari, be them born of the Republic or exfreedemen who would be willing to aid in my research.

Arkady Sadik wrote:
Hanno Ashfer wrote:
So what is you take on the liberation of Matari slaves by the Empress?

Would you consider it a good thing?


I noted this in another thread a while ago, but I'll repeat it here, as it might be interesting to you.

The Empress liberating all slaves of the 9th generation and older was an impressive PR move. Ms. Sarum having broken multiple imperial laws and traditions to get the throne needed support wherever she could get it. The people in slavery for that long are the most likely to be the most indoctrinated, so "losing" them will cause the least harm to the Empire, while giving the Empress much-needed support among the more progressive Amarrians - low danger, high gain. Her next move, calling for a "new Reclaiming" with the 24th Imperial Crusade, gave her the much-needed support among the more conservative circles. Very smart, really.

Next, liberating this amount of people at the same time put the Republic under a lot of pressure. While not all of them returned, quite a few did. It's no secret that the Republic, born out of a rebellion merely 133 years ago and having been at war for greater parts of that time is not the richest of the empires. Having to deal with so many people returning, being unable (and unwilling!) to turn them back nor really to cater for them put us under quite some stress. Luckily, it seems we have managed. (Again, apologies to those refugees still in sub-par accomodations - we are working on it.)

All in all, I have to say that I am very happy for the millions of people who were freed this way. But I do not think it happened out of generosity or kindness - it was a cunning plan to ensure popular support for the controversial empress and to put the Republic under pressure to support the following invasion.


Seems you and I suspect quite the same. This very sentiment is echoed in my research and it's glad to find that my own theory's are supported by other other capsuleers as well.

Ava Starfire wrote:
The liberation of the 9th and older generations was a step in the right direction although, as Mr. Sadik says above, I find myself questioning the motive from time to time. However, in the interest of promoting understanding, I generally err on the side of benevolence, and believe that may, this just might be a sign, however small and deeply concealed, that the Empire is realizing how horrid, destructive, and simply archaic slavery is.

The Republic did have to try to absorb tens of millions ( No idea on actual numbers, I wish I did ) of new immigrants ( so much for the idea that those released will love the empire and wish to stay after so long a period, eh? ) and it is a poor nation; the fact that the lion's share of our resources go to the war effort does not help. The influx of refugees has strained support services beyond the breaking point, as I discovered when staying in a refugee camp a while ago... food, water, and basic medical services were few, and sometimes, simply nonexistent, crime and violence rampant. Shame on us, for this.

If it was a benevolent act, a simple gesture of kindness, then I humbly thank the Empress and pray for more progress. If it was not, It was a smart PR move, and places the focus on the social services in the Republic, highlighting our failures.

Either way, the Empress and the Empire comes out looking rather good, hmm?


The Ninth Generation alone contained over Seven Hundred Million Matri. Tens of millions is but a drop in the bucket to the flood of immigrants who wished to turn to their ancestral homeland, though I believe many are finding that while they share a racial heritage the Matari of the Republic are not the same as them, nor do they really want them.
Hanno Ashfer
Doomheim
#9 - 2011-09-11 15:28:03 UTC

Jason Galente wrote:
Hanno Ashfer wrote:
So what is you take on the liberation of Matari slaves by the Empress?

Would you consider it a good thing?


I would consider it essential



Why would you consider it essential? and essential for what exactly? News reports from Scope News reports that camps on Matari worlds are considerably consumed by squaller and violence. The Homeworlds barely are able to support their own populace let alone the hundreds of million of newly freed Matari wishing to return to their home.

How about the implications on the Federation? can anyone give me a speculation on how the Federal Government is handling the situation?
Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#10 - 2011-09-11 15:56:25 UTC
A pearson that give his freedom for protection doesn't deserve any of them.

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude
Hanno Ashfer
Doomheim
#11 - 2011-09-11 15:58:28 UTC
Really? so you would prefer to die having nothing but the idea of being free rather than a place for you and your family (if you had one) to live out your lives?
Jason Galente
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2011-09-11 16:46:49 UTC
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:
A pearson that give his freedom for protection doesn't deserve any of them.


In society, it is 100% necessary for the individual to surrender some freedom to their government to ensure that everyone (including innocent people) are protected. The easiest example here is the freedom to **** a young girl, or murder an old woman. Yes, these are freedoms, but most would agree they need to be surrendered to prevent complete and total anarchy.

Only the liberty of the individual assures the prosperity of the whole. And this foundation must be defended.

At any cost
Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#13 - 2011-09-11 17:44:03 UTC
Jason Galente wrote:
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:
A pearson that give his freedom for protection doesn't deserve any of them.


In society, it is 100% necessary for the individual to surrender some freedom to their government to ensure that everyone (including innocent people) are protected. The easiest example here is the freedom to **** a young girl, or murder an old woman. Yes, these are freedoms, but most would agree they need to be surrendered to prevent complete and total anarchy.


You have a distorted view of freedom.

One man's freedom ends where another's one begins.


CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude
Hanno Ashfer
Doomheim
#14 - 2011-09-11 19:25:34 UTC
Care to elaborate?
Hanno Ashfer
Doomheim
#15 - 2011-09-11 21:23:42 UTC
Could I tempt anyone into being my editor? I've nearly completed the work and would be honored if someone would be as kind to read over it for me and give me their impressions.
Jason Galente
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2011-09-11 21:57:18 UTC
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:
Jason Galente wrote:
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:
A pearson that give his freedom for protection doesn't deserve any of them.


In society, it is 100% necessary for the individual to surrender some freedom to their government to ensure that everyone (including innocent people) are protected. The easiest example here is the freedom to **** a young girl, or murder an old woman. Yes, these are freedoms, but most would agree they need to be surrendered to prevent complete and total anarchy.


You have a distorted view of freedom.

One man's freedom ends where another's one begins.




So you believe that might makes right?

Only the liberty of the individual assures the prosperity of the whole. And this foundation must be defended.

At any cost
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#17 - 2011-09-12 12:23:47 UTC
Jason Galente wrote:
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:
Jason Galente wrote:
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:
A pearson that give his freedom for protection doesn't deserve any of them.


In society, it is 100% necessary for the individual to surrender some freedom to their government to ensure that everyone (including innocent people) are protected. The easiest example here is the freedom to **** a young girl, or murder an old woman. Yes, these are freedoms, but most would agree they need to be surrendered to prevent complete and total anarchy.


You have a distorted view of freedom.

One man's freedom ends where another's one begins.




So you believe that might makes right?



Actually I think the citation he made was definitly a criticism to absolute freedom (versus relative freedom).
Jason Galente
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2011-09-12 12:26:53 UTC
If that is the case, Ms. Farel, I misunderstood, assuming he would not contradict himself. I'm glad he understands the flaws on absolute freedom.

Only the liberty of the individual assures the prosperity of the whole. And this foundation must be defended.

At any cost
Rogue Lawyer
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2011-09-18 01:32:56 UTC
Ava Starfire wrote:
The liberation of the 9th and older generations was a step in the right direction although, as Mr. Sadik says above, I find myself questioning the motive from time to time. However, in the interest of promoting understanding, I generally err on the side of benevolence, and believe that may, this just might be a sign, however small and deeply concealed, that the Empire is realizing how horrid, destructive, and simply archaic slavery is.

The Republic did have to try to absorb tens of millions ( No idea on actual numbers, I wish I did ) of new immigrants ( so much for the idea that those released will love the empire and wish to stay after so long a period, eh? ) and it is a poor nation; the fact that the lion's share of our resources go to the war effort does not help. The influx of refugees has strained support services beyond the breaking point, as I discovered when staying in a refugee camp a while ago... food, water, and basic medical services were few, and sometimes, simply nonexistent, crime and violence rampant. Shame on us, for this.

If it was a benevolent act, a simple gesture of kindness, then I humbly thank the Empress and pray for more progress. If it was not, It was a smart PR move, and places the focus on the social services in the Republic, highlighting our failures.

Either way, the Empress and the Empire comes out looking rather good, hmm?




Ha.....the Matar moan and complain about the influx of the large newly freed slaves from the Empire, yet they wage war against the empire to free more slaves. Has everyone forgot about the elder fleet and its raid into Amarr space ( Empress Jamly's territory in particular). Whose purpose was to free as many slaves as possible. Further more the Elder fleet was built from the billions and billions that the federation government gave to the Matari in aid, that aid should have gone to the people, to the infrastructure not to waging war on Concord. Recent events in the Republic to not bold well, the recent return to a more tribal society and away from the democracy that the Republic was founded on will lead to a weak Republic. One which will be crippled by poverty, corruption and mass civil unrest.
Astrid Skjerna
Doomheim
#20 - 2011-09-26 16:45:00 UTC
rogue lawyer wrote:

the recent return to a more tribal society and away from the democracy that the Republic was founded on will lead to a weak Republic. One which will be crippled by poverty, corruption and mass civil unrest.


What alternative would you suggest, then? The Amarr have done all they can to stamp out our cultural identity -- the 'Reeducation Camps' are evidence enough of that. Democracy is a joke when we're spread across half the galaxy under the thumbs of a conquering people.

At least the Seven Tribes have an identity of their own, fractured though it may be.
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