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Restrict NPC Corporation Posting Abilities.

First post First post
Author
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#381 - 2014-05-25 23:39:59 UTC
The quality of posts in this thread does prove that people can keep it together and discuss a subject without being disrespectful or inflammatory. In the end that's all it takes, the willingness to treat each other like human beings.

I'm throwing my hat into the hypocrisy ring here and freely admit that my conduct has been less than exemplary in the past and it will probably be pretty poor in the future, but that's because the forums have become an extension of the game universe and whilst there's no deliberate malice to my posts I like a lot of people treat people who oppose me as an obstacle or an enemy in exactly the same way that i would if I were to encounter them in solo pvp in eve. I'm not alone in this I'm sure, but having characters that exist in game able to post on public forums is clearly where the lines blur.

That's why I think we can encourage better forum conduct with the usage of totally separate forum alts not usable within the game in anyway, 1 per account, all of which should be in npc corps to prevent the rise of power blocs and affiliations based on in game activity.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...

Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#382 - 2014-05-25 23:47:54 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:

Finally free speech trumps all other concerns.


Freedom of speech is not granted on privately owned medium. Better luck next time.


It's my birthright and a universal human right, regardless of medium, I have the absolute freedom to say anything I like even if breaks tos or eulas. What I don't always have is freedom from the consequences of that speech, should I cause grievous offence, this might result in posts being removed or even a forum ban, but i get to speak first before these things happen.

You are confusing freedom with a lack of consequences, they are not the same thing.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#383 - 2014-05-25 23:51:09 UTC
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:

You are confusing freedom with a lack of consequences, they are not the same thing.


I would point out that the removal of NPC corp posting privileges (and that's what it is, a privilege) in several forums (not all, as stated in the OP), is a natural consequences of that being so badly abused.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#384 - 2014-05-25 23:53:58 UTC
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:

That's why I think we can encourage better forum conduct with the usage of totally separate forum alts not usable within the game in anyway, 1 per account, all of which should be in npc corps to prevent the rise of power blocs and affiliations based on in game activity.



That would put a damper on more than a few in game activities. And some meta ones as well.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#385 - 2014-05-25 23:54:50 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:


Something Awful works because you have a stake that you lose if you misbehave. It is not possible for EVE to conform to this. Although SA is a good example of why paywalls are a good idea, because free to play games have utterly trash players.


EVE already has the paywall unless you think more player will PLEX account after account when they get banned than there are players who will form trolling corps or join random corps with enough members in it.

I'm not saying it's impossible but that is a dedicated troll who would go through any hoops we throw in front of him.

Why can't EVE conform to this anyway? I'm curious.


Because, Infinity Ziona aside, it is reaaaaallllly hard to get banned from the entire game for actions on the forums.

They are pretty well separate. The paywall doesn't apply here because doing stupid things on the forums does not hurt you in game. If there were a forum CSPA charge, for example, that would be an application of a paywall. The current system is not.


If your posting privilege were really at stake like real moderation imply, would that be enough? Currently, all you get is your post deleted. This is not moderation. This is only pushing the trash to the side but still plainly at reach of the punks to throw it around.
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#386 - 2014-05-25 23:57:11 UTC
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:

Finally free speech trumps all other concerns.


Freedom of speech is not granted on privately owned medium. Better luck next time.


It's my birthright and a universal human right, regardless of medium, I have the absolute freedom to say anything I like even if breaks tos or eulas. What I don't always have is freedom from the consequences of that speech, should I cause grievous offence, this might result in posts being removed or even a forum ban, but i get to speak first before these things happen.

You are confusing freedom with a lack of consequences, they are not the same thing.


Privately owned message boards can silence you with no reason and it is not a breach of your rights because you had no rights to begin with. You were granted a privilege.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#387 - 2014-05-26 00:00:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaarous Aldurald
Frostys Virpio wrote:

If your posting privilege were really at stake like real moderation imply, would that be enough? Currently, all you get is your post deleted. This is not moderation. This is only pushing the trash to the side but still plainly at reach of the punks to throw it around.


Think about why we have the ISD for a minute.

They are volunteers for a reason. Because CCP doesn't have the kind of budget, manpower, or resources necessary to moderate the forums themselves. This is beneficial because it frees up CCP, who are a frikkin tiny company when you get right down to it, to spend money and manpower on other things, like the game itself.

But precisely because they are volunteers and not legal employees of CCP, it's totally inappropriate (and probably some kind of illegal) to give them any permanent power over another player's account, even if it is just their posting privileges.

It is a quandary, no mistake.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
#388 - 2014-05-26 00:16:03 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Because, Infinity Ziona aside, it is reaaaaallllly hard to get banned from the entire game for actions on the forums.


Did I miss something?

(I wouldn't mind very short game bans for repeat offenders. I reckon the loss of a day's training'd be a good deterrant)
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#389 - 2014-05-26 05:01:05 UTC  |  Edited by: La Nariz
^^: Pretty sure the guy threatened CCP with some stupid legal thing in one of his meltdown threads.

Rass Kass wrote:
This isn't about stopping people in NPC corps from trolling. It's about someone getting butt-hurt on the forums and wanting revenge in game. All the ways around the restrictions the OP has asked for have been shown. Yet, he still wants to ban NPC corp members from posting. He can't show a single way(for some play styles) that a PC is better.

This toon here was created about 3 years ago and lives in Jita buying stuff. He hasn't undocked in at-least 2 years. He has no reason to be in a PC.

Want me to post with my main? Why? So when you hear descent you can gank/war dec me?

Want to clean up trolling? Give the ISD's more tools to help with that problem. Banning people because they don't play the game like you is the dumbest thing I have ever read.


Your risk aversion is showing. I don't have the time to get everyone right now but for people that love the market a good incentive to find a market corporation is manipulation of the market. It makes orders of magnitude more isk than 0.01isk wars and is considerably less effort when you have people doing it in concert. It also diffuses the risk among many people so that decreases the amount of risk per person in the event the manipulation fails.

I can tell you didn't read the OP because of the bolded line in your post; my suggestion is only meant to be part of the solution not the entire solution.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133

Rass Kass
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#390 - 2014-05-26 05:48:21 UTC
Actually, I find the ship to ship combat in Eve uninteresting. I enjoy other aspects of the game. Like roaming thru WH space, traveling thru null and other things that put me at risk constantly. See what happens when you assume. My play style doesn't require a PC. The idea that banning NPC corp members from posting on large swaths of the forums is a BAD idea. It's easily bypassed.

As stated previously by myself and many others, give ISD's more tools.

Things such as muting an account for 24 hrs from a thread while the community teams looks into handing out stiffer punishment. The OP can lock out NPC corp members from posting(this is borderline) in a thread. Allowing people to filter out corps and/or alliances. Even downvoting could be implemented.

The outright banning people from posting due to being in a NPC corp is a horrible idea.

It may be time to push CCP for full time forum management by paid personnel if people think trolling is that big of an issue.
Myrthiis
Boon Odd Ducks Bath Toys
#391 - 2014-05-26 05:54:44 UTC
Restricting rights to post for the simple purpose of appartening to a group is nothing less than censure ,flamming and trolling should be dealt with technical ressources granted to moderation and "forum banning"on account wide range after CCP approval should be in their arsenal.

Beside that ,i think forum posts should be made anonymously ,using a game tag in place of the name to avoid IN game harassement from an OUTside game activity .
Mayhaw Morgan
State War Academy
Caldari State
#392 - 2014-05-26 07:27:06 UTC
This thread doesn't make sense with the narrative that La Nariz is espousing. Let's try a different one:

La Nariz doesn't like NPC corps. He thinks he should have "full access" to every player in the game. He thinks NPC corps unfairly protect the players who use them and that his playstyle is the purer, truer form of EVE Online, and that all players who do not "play the game the right way" (i.e. the way that will allow him to dominate them) should effectively be ejected from the game.

Silencing NPC corp players removes their ability to advocate for themselves and their playstyle. "The pen is mightier than the sword.", it has been said. And, so, this thread can be seen as an attempt to disarm certain groups of players, specifically those in NPC corps.

Furthermore, restricting posting to groups of 10 or more players targets another clustering of players that are a "threat" to La Nariz's domination: independent and small group operators. These people are less likely to submit to his playstyle. Their stubbornness and variable approaches to the game make it hard for someone like him to control them. They do their own thing, their own way, for their own reasons and they resist hegemony. Often times, these players are not in actual corporations of 10+ because of their independence, but they will still play together. For example: half the group is in one corp, half the group is in another corp. If they had to field 10 people in a corporation, that corporation would make for a fatter target than two 5-man corporations or ten 1-man corporations.

I can't really estimate how many Goon-alts exist in NPC corporations, but I know it to be a significant number, and a good deal of the trolling and other nefarious activity that La Nariz decries is actually perpetrated by the alts of players like himself. If players like him really cared so much about the integrity of the game, why would they abuse game mechanics in that way?

On the surface, La Nariz' proposal seems to be a bad solution to a mild problem. But if viewed as an attempt to wield a political weapon against certain groups of players who he hasn't been able to bring to heel, it makes a lot more sense.
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#393 - 2014-05-26 08:51:40 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:

Finally free speech trumps all other concerns.


Freedom of speech is not granted on privately owned medium. Better luck next time.


It's my birthright and a universal human right, regardless of medium, I have the absolute freedom to say anything I like even if breaks tos or eulas. What I don't always have is freedom from the consequences of that speech, should I cause grievous offence, this might result in posts being removed or even a forum ban, but i get to speak first before these things happen.

You are confusing freedom with a lack of consequences, they are not the same thing.


Privately owned message boards can silence you with no reason and it is not a breach of your rights because you had no rights to begin with. You were granted a privilege.


People who claim that freedom of speech is a privilege and not a right are usually the ones who'd like to remove such privileges.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...

Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#394 - 2014-05-26 09:05:52 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:

That's why I think we can encourage better forum conduct with the usage of totally separate forum alts not usable within the game in anyway, 1 per account, all of which should be in npc corps to prevent the rise of power blocs and affiliations based on in game activity.



That would put a damper on more than a few in game activities. And some meta ones as well.


Isn't this entire thread all about the meta though?

This is what we're really talking about, create a thread to encourage the view that every member of an npc corp is worth less than members of a player corp to the point that they should be denied the right to fully participate in the forums.

The goal being to make life uncomfortable for npc Corp members, because the op and his alliance want to force a change in the game that they hope they'll benefit from.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...

SniffleBum KissyLips
EVE INDUSTIAL MINING TRINITY GOLD MINER CORP INC.
#395 - 2014-05-26 09:59:13 UTC
Because surely noone would EVER create or join some joke corp just to continue trolling, right?
Curious Onlooker
LE YOLO LE SWAG LE 9GAG YOLOSWAG SWAGGER CORP YOLO
#396 - 2014-05-26 10:01:05 UTC
SniffleBum KissyLips wrote:
Because surely noone would EVER create or join some joke corp just to continue trolling, right?



#TRUTH #EVE-WISDOM #NOLIES
Definitly not an-alt
Doomheim
#397 - 2014-05-26 10:34:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Definitly not an-alt
Curious Onlooker wrote:
SniffleBum KissyLips wrote:
Because surely noone would EVER create or join some joke corp just to continue trolling, right?



#TRUTH #EVE-WISDOM #NOLIES

The prerequisite's for that are both having a sense of humour and knowing your audience, not something either of you seem to grasp.
this is why maliks notion of an alliance level blocking feature would do wonders.

Personally I think the isd should ballgag anyone who uses a hash tag and isn't discussing numbers.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#398 - 2014-05-26 12:09:36 UTC
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:

Isn't this entire thread all about the meta though?


If you believe that it is so because he's a Goon, then yes.

I, on the other hand, believe that it is not impossible for him to be suggesting something for the benefit of the community as a whole in honesty.


Quote:

This is what we're really talking about, create a thread to encourage the view that every member of an npc corp is worth less than members of a player corp to the point that they should be denied the right to fully participate in the forums.

The goal being to make life uncomfortable for npc Corp members, because the op and his alliance want to force a change in the game that they hope they'll benefit from.


The goal being to remove one of the largest methods of trolling these forums, to help negate one of the major causes of fractured discussion on this discussion board.

No one is suggesting NPC corps can't give feedback. The OP's suggestion even allows them in F&I, which I personally would ban them from since this board is a troll swamp.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#399 - 2014-05-26 12:25:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Alvatore DiMarco
The absolute sheer irony of this thread cannot be measured in any terms that would fit within human comprehension.
Thomas Harding
Doomheim
#400 - 2014-05-26 14:57:40 UTC
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:

Finally free speech trumps all other concerns.


Freedom of speech is not granted on privately owned medium. Better luck next time.


It's my birthright and a universal human right, regardless of medium, I have the absolute freedom to say anything I like even if breaks tos or eulas. What I don't always have is freedom from the consequences of that speech, should I cause grievous offence, this might result in posts being removed or even a forum ban, but i get to speak first before these things happen.

You are confusing freedom with a lack of consequences, they are not the same thing.


Nope. You forgot that there has to be party that's willing to receive your opinions. You have no absolute right to express your opinions anytime anywhere.