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Loot Scattering removed from Exploration Sites

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Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
#101 - 2014-05-23 18:17:52 UTC
CCP Bayesian wrote:
We're concerned that it might just be annoying for people to have to jettison it all the time (using Loot All) or cherry pick out the good stuff from the inventory window. Any thoughts, preferably after trying it out on Sisi?
How about make the "junk loot" NOT junk. No, I don't mean by making it "aw3sum f4ct10N lewt". I mean by using that "junk" to manufacture things for Explorers. Such as the Data Sheets / Hydrogen Batteries / etc being used to manufacture Utilities. Which could then be slotted BEFORE Hacking etc etc. You know, all the stuff you were talking about last year. That way, the junk isn't really "junk".


CCP Bayesian wrote:
...without making it harder to catch and kill Explorers.
Because that was hard to begin with? You bookmark the site and/or leave your Bomber alt cloaked there. Go do what you normally do in system. If somebody is stupid enough to run sites with others in local, then Profit. If anything, killing Explorers should be made more difficult. But I gather that runs somewhat counter to the current philosophy of placating the "moar easy killz plox! i r aw3sum! hnuuurrrr!" crowd. What?
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#102 - 2014-05-23 18:44:38 UTC
Some feedback after getting on Sisi and testing.
Got an average site in low sec, all 5 cans contained loot. It was so nice to not have the loot spew to deal with but with that being said I have a couple concerns.
First, with the removal of loot spew there will be more hackers going out again which will further drive the value of sites down it might be wise to consider nerfing the loot tables just a little bit.
Second is the Pirate Materials, is there any reason they are 1m3 each? That's huge when you consider they usually come is stacks of 35~150 one site can fill up your cargo hold, if your aren't lucky. On a related note those parts are still mostly worthless as they come in large stacks and once the BPC is manufactured the item is permanent it would be nice the see the stack quanity lowered and the volume decreased on each item. Something that I will bring up in a invention thread is the idea of the Interfaces to be consumable rather than permanent.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Arla Sarain
#103 - 2014-05-24 15:36:03 UTC
Don't forget that there is an implant that increases loot spew duration by 5s
ExookiZ
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
#104 - 2014-05-24 15:42:04 UTC  |  Edited by: ExookiZ
The market for WH data/relic loot has plummeted to the point where very few people in my corp even run them. Removing the loot spew is great, but I would like to argue that if you doubled the amount of loot in odyssey you really need to halve it again to where it was before, anything less and the sites are still worthless.

Also, could you think about making WH cans explode after failed hacks like everything else does? The ease of access to WH exploration sites has led to them being almost worthless. Difficult minigame be damned every idiot that can spam click just keeps trying again and again until they get the node, this makes deprives competent explorers of any advantage.

Event Organizer of EVE North East
probag Bear
Xiong Offices
#105 - 2014-05-24 17:15:31 UTC
ExookiZ wrote:
The market for WH data/relic loot has plummeted to the point where very few people in my corp even run them. Removing the loot spew is great, but I would like to argue that if you doubled the amount of loot in odyssey you really need to halve it again to where it was before, anything less and the sites are still worthless.


I've dried up Jita's entire supply of WH relic loot too many times to count over the last month. Please go back to running them.
Bohneik Itohn
10.K
#106 - 2014-05-24 17:19:54 UTC
probag Bear wrote:

I've dried up Jita's entire supply of WH relic loot too many times to count over the last month. Please go back to running them.



So what you're saying is the WH guys are undercutting themselves out of a market that they have complete control over...

Genius....

Wait, CCP kills kittens now too?!  - Freyya

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Vhelnik Cojoin
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#107 - 2014-05-24 17:29:26 UTC
Message in OP makes me happy. May actually go back and try exploration again, once this hits TQ.

Have you Communicated with your fellow capsuleers today? It is good for the EvE-oconomy and o-kay for you.
Vishtar
0.0 Massive Dynamic
Pandemic Horde
#108 - 2014-05-24 19:34:02 UTC
Is this changing in wormhole sites as well as normal space exploration sites?
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
#109 - 2014-05-25 09:22:44 UTC
CCP Bayesian wrote:
I've done some tidying up of the site completion mechanics that mean the exploration site gets pulled down and recreated elsewhere which should hopefully help with that problem. It should be live on Sisi after the next update.

We added some junk loot in as well, partly because it was in the scattered containers and partly because there are otherwise occasionally empty containers. We're concerned that it might just be annoying for people to have to jettison it all the time (using Loot All) or cherry pick out the good stuff from the inventory window. Any thoughts, preferably after trying it out on Sisi?


How about adding some lore related loot instead of junk? I feel kind of silly using my space archaeology skill to essentially sift through space trash. Followed by selling what I stole. Make some lore-relevanted items I can store in my museum.
Josef Djugashvilis
#110 - 2014-05-25 09:57:08 UTC
Owen Levanth wrote:
CCP Bayesian wrote:
I've done some tidying up of the site completion mechanics that mean the exploration site gets pulled down and recreated elsewhere which should hopefully help with that problem. It should be live on Sisi after the next update.

We added some junk loot in as well, partly because it was in the scattered containers and partly because there are otherwise occasionally empty containers. We're concerned that it might just be annoying for people to have to jettison it all the time (using Loot All) or cherry pick out the good stuff from the inventory window. Any thoughts, preferably after trying it out on Sisi?


How about adding some lore related loot instead of junk? I feel kind of silly using my space archaeology skill to essentially sift through space trash. Followed by selling what I stole. Make some lore-relevanted items I can store in my museum.


Eve has lore, who cares?

Sorry, but your idea is hopeless.

This is not a signature.
Shiloh Templeton
Cheyenne HET Co
#111 - 2014-05-25 16:51:41 UTC
CCP Bayesian wrote:
IWe're concerned that it might just be annoying for people to have to jettison it all the time (using Loot All) or cherry pick out the good stuff from the inventory window. Any thoughts, preferably after trying it out on Sisi?


I'd rather cherry pick since it allows me to control precious cargo space more easily. A couple of problems with jettison: there is a timer before jettisoning again, & the jettison can leaves an identifying footprint for hunters.
Myrthiis
Boon Odd Ducks Bath Toys
#112 - 2014-05-25 19:42:46 UTC
By all means necessary , i think CCP should avoid cherry picking ( making explo container scan immune is the simplest and best method).
For me there is 3 major concerns actually.
-Balance drop table to maintain market value .
-Make the hacking game more challenging and enjoyable aka multicores + timer .
-Avoid cherry picking .
CCP Bayesian
#113 - 2014-05-26 09:07:22 UTC
Arla Sarain wrote:
Don't forget that there is an implant that increases loot spew duration by 5s


We haven't and its getting changed.

EVE Software Engineer Team Space Glitter
Onslaughtor
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#114 - 2014-05-26 09:26:39 UTC
Owen Levanth wrote:
CCP Bayesian wrote:
I've done some tidying up of the site completion mechanics that mean the exploration site gets pulled down and recreated elsewhere which should hopefully help with that problem. It should be live on Sisi after the next update.

We added some junk loot in as well, partly because it was in the scattered containers and partly because there are otherwise occasionally empty containers. We're concerned that it might just be annoying for people to have to jettison it all the time (using Loot All) or cherry pick out the good stuff from the inventory window. Any thoughts, preferably after trying it out on Sisi?


How about adding some lore related loot instead of junk? I feel kind of silly using my space archaeology skill to essentially sift through space trash. Followed by selling what I stole. Make some lore-relevanted items I can store in my museum.


Kinda like the pirate gas sites. There is a lot of loot in there that gives flavor to the game world. We really need more of it.
Ransu Asanari
Perkone
Caldari State
#115 - 2014-05-26 09:53:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Ransu Asanari
I just tested a Relic site in a 0.0 system (K-QWHE). Some feedback:

  • It isn't possible to save a bookmark on a specific can. I was pretty sure you could do this previously, but you can't anymore. I think I remember doing this to share a corp bookmark as a warp in for attacking. If you get +150km away from the cans, they are still able to be warped to.

  • The cans once hacked have the "Set Name" option if you right click on them. If you try to set a name, it says "You can't rename this type of object". This option should probably be removed.

  • No tooltips on the hacking containers themselves. This could probably be re-added.

  • Cargo scanning still works on the containers. I'm OK with that. I cargo scanned ALL of the containers before I started hacking, and I didn't see any T2 loot. When I got to the last can, I scanned again, and I believe the contents had changed, as there was some T2 loot. This seems very odd.

  • From this site in a 0.0 sec system, this is the total contents (22.2M) emptied after successfully hacking all containers. I'm used to getting 35-50M in loot, plus blueprints and the rare T2/Faction item. This amount seems rather low, but it could be due to the truesec rating of the system. I'll test again in a better truesec system. EDIT: Another Relic site in a -0.6 Truesec gave 16.69M of loot.
Ransu Asanari
Perkone
Caldari State
#116 - 2014-05-26 10:15:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Ransu Asanari
Additional feedback from running an "Angel Sparking Transmitter" Data site in a -0.5 system:


  • The Micro Jump Drive Blueprint icon looks like a BPO not a BPC, and has an error in the description: [no messageID: 295554] (copy). Screenshot.

  • If you finish a can, but don't take all the loot, the icon for the can doesn't indicate that it still contains something. Shouldn't this be similar to how wrecks are? For example: White (solid) for contains loot but hasn't been accessed. Grey (solid) for contains loot but has been accessed. Grey (hollow) for does not contain loot.

  • The items from a Data site are still extremely bulky. The Electrical Conduit parts take up almost my entire cargo bay, so I end up having to jetcan it. Datacores/Decryptors are also much more bulky than the loot from Relic sites, so I end up only keeping the choice ones.

  • Noob question about the "junk loot" - Electronic Parts, Hydrogen Batteries, Carbon, etc. Is it still used in Outpost Construction? If it's removed, where will this stuff come from? When we were doing the lootspew, you'd have to watch your cargo space carefully or you might fill up and be full and not be able to grab good loot, but that isn't a problem anymore. Personally I'd like to see more lore related loot to replace this stuff if it's not actually necessary for building anything.
Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication
#117 - 2014-05-26 10:19:34 UTC
CCP Bayesian wrote:
As I said above the loot balancing is a WIP but I'll make sure your feedback reaches the right ears. I'm pretty sure we don't want to ruin any serendipitous benefits of the changes we made.


I definitely hope it is a work in process. Did not have much time to play with it so far, but I can already tell the value of items from the site is less than half. Your code should at least make sure there is at least one item of value - carbon and other PI materials do not count as items of value, nor those skill books. Blink

Otherwise, nice to see the loot spew go. Never made much sense that pilots on salvage expeditions would not have the sense to bring a really big net to cover the doors.

Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space.

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CCP Bayesian
#118 - 2014-05-26 10:37:11 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Bayesian
The loot in the cans is currently setup to be 70% of the value it was after Odyssey when we doubled the loot to account for the Scattering. We'll be watching to see what happens but think this should be a good spot to start from. You probably can't see that from running one or two sites though as it will average out between cans that have lots of awesome stuff in and cans that don't. Smile

Ransu Asanari, the HUD icon tells you whether the can has been hacked or not. It reflects the 'security status' of the can.

We think there is enough wrong with the balance of the loot in the Exploration Sites that a much larger pass needs to be made over it. For example Relic sites are typically worth much more than Data sites and there are some big jumps in the value of sites as you move through the progression in difficulty. It's something on Space Glitters backlog to look at.

EVE Software Engineer Team Space Glitter
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#119 - 2014-05-26 10:39:06 UTC
CCP Bayesian wrote:
Arla Sarain wrote:
Don't forget that there is an implant that increases loot spew duration by 5s


We haven't and its getting changed.

Any kind of teaser as to what it will become?

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
CCP RedDawn
C C P
C C P Alliance
#120 - 2014-05-26 10:46:09 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
CCP Bayesian wrote:
Arla Sarain wrote:
Don't forget that there is an implant that increases loot spew duration by 5s


We haven't and its getting changed.

Any kind of teaser as to what it will become?


The loot scattering decay bonus from the Poteque 'Prospector' Environmental Analysis EY-1005 implant was replaced with a +5 Virus Coherence bonus for both data and relic analyzers.

This is on Singularity now.

Team Genesis