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Fuel blocks - CPP Total Failure to Achieve Objectives?

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Lykouleon
Noble Sentiments
Second Empire.
#21 - 2011-12-04 04:40:57 UTC
The company's name is, in fact, CCP. Not CPP.

Lykouleon > CYNO ME CLOSER so I can hit them with my sword
mkint
#22 - 2011-12-04 07:37:04 UTC
Nah, objective accomplished. It is now easier than ever for a very few RMT alliances to own every single valuable moon in the game, and now they can just throw money at the problems (instead of taking time to actually take care of their assets), thus securing the RMT chain, and thus securing Greyscale's cut. The POCO changes accomplish the same thing... turns PI into an isk deluge for those RMT nullbear alliances, and making it harder than ever for them to ever be meaningfully challenged, and thus securing the RMT chain.

Whether these changes reflect incompetence or sinister intent, it is these kinds of changes that will ultimately destroy EVE.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#23 - 2011-12-04 07:39:46 UTC
Who are CPP and why are they messing with EVE

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#24 - 2011-12-04 07:39:52 UTC
Under the old system you were doing it right (mostly).

Under the new system you are doing it wrong, as this thread is illustrating.

Also:
Quote:

I still have to do freaking math. How many blocks in my towers. How many of each type of component in each fuel block. No time savings there.


When I build something I simply tell the assembly line how many I want and it does the math for me.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Richard Hammond II
Doomheim
#25 - 2011-12-04 07:40:41 UTC
They should have made it so all stations take "generic fuel pellet" instead of specific ice types, just to **** off the Goons lol

Goons; infiltration at its best - first bob... now ccp itself. They dont realize you guys dot take this as "just a game". Bring it down guys, we're rooting for you.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#26 - 2011-12-04 07:49:24 UTC
mkint wrote:
Nah, objective accomplished. It is now easier than ever for a very few RMT alliances to own every single valuable moon in the game, and now they can just throw money at the problems (instead of taking time to actually take care of their assets), thus securing the RMT chain, and thus securing Greyscale's cut. The POCO changes accomplish the same thing... turns PI into an isk deluge for those RMT nullbear alliances, and making it harder than ever for them to ever be meaningfully challenged, and thus securing the RMT chain.

Whether this post reflects incompetence or sinister intent, it is these kinds of posts that will ultimately destroy my credibility.


FYP

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Rico Minali
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2011-12-04 08:59:23 UTC
See, this here is a multi player game so to look after our modest 7 towers I have a team of people, 3 people do a single reaction pair each (fuel loading, silo emptying and filling) this takes around 30 minutes a week for each person. 1 guy makes teh fuel cubes ot of teh fuel that I buy up locally or get my corp to produce when they arent exploding people.

All in all thats 4 people doing a max of 30 mins work a week and then once a fortnight I pay someone to haul to Jita... Fuel cubes hav emade our lives ALOT easier.

What Im saying is your doing it wrong, maybe get some freinds to play this massively multiplayer game...

Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
Zagdul
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2011-12-04 09:04:10 UTC
Palal wrote:
You two are real confused.

Let me address the buy fuel blocks versus manufacture. And sorry the numbers are even worse; I messed up on my spreadsheet on the first post:

I can manufacture @ 14,100 ISK per block, or roughly 1.62 billion per month in fuel.
I can purchase @20,600 ISK per block, or roughly 2.37 billion per month in fuel.

My revenue is about 3 billion per month. What would you do in this case?

And fuel has risen dramatically in the last few weeks. Consider 1 component - Heavy water. Used to trade for 22 ISK/unit. Now is 225 ISK. That one component alone is almost 100 million more per month. That has NOTHING to do with PI.

Lastly, all my calculations are with 0% waste - so it will be worse if you don't do the material research.






Sell my PI at a premium and buy blocks.


Dual Pane idea: Click!

CCP Please Implement
Zagdul
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2011-12-04 09:08:59 UTC
Rico Minali wrote:
See, this here is a multi player game so to look after our modest 7 towers I have a team of people, 3 people do a single reaction pair each (fuel loading, silo emptying and filling) this takes around 30 minutes a week for each person. 1 guy makes teh fuel cubes ot of teh fuel that I buy up locally or get my corp to produce when they arent exploding people.

All in all thats 4 people doing a max of 30 mins work a week and then once a fortnight I pay someone to haul to Jita... Fuel cubes hav emade our lives ALOT easier.

What Im saying is your doing it wrong, maybe get some freinds to play this massively multiplayer game...


The confusion is that people are still trying to build their hulls.

They forget that eventually prices will stabilize and waiting on those who are good at building the blocks to seed and bring the price down is the smart thing to do thus saving all the steps you used to do.

Blocks are a lot easier if you skip all the previous steps you used to do. It's just that people have gotten so used to their habits and can't break them.

FYI: if you didn't plan for this change by having stocks in the bank to prep for this, you are doing it wrong. Furthermore, if prices go up for POS's, the reason you have that pos (HINT: MAKE MONEY) will also inflate and you'll make it back in the bottom line.

Dual Pane idea: Click!

CCP Please Implement
Seleia O'Sinnor
Drop of Honey
#30 - 2011-12-04 10:08:18 UTC
It's a bad new feature these fuel blocks.

It does make fueling a bit easier yes but at the cost of even more work.

Now let's see, this was the old system:

open a hangar with the fuel in it,
open the fuel bay,
open pos management window and open processes / fuel
sort list by time left to see what's most short
move fuel into fuel bay (repeat until satisfied)

What was so complicated about it? Now you've got to produce them somwhere, most will do it at the POS, however this will requires more production arrays and the management of those. It's bad trade.


Odyssey: Repacking in POS hangars for modules +1,  but please for other stuff too, especially containers. Make containers openable in POS hangars.
Amro One
One.
#31 - 2011-12-04 10:10:05 UTC
Can i have your stuff????
ACE McFACE
Dirt 'n' Glitter
Local Is Primary
#32 - 2011-12-04 10:26:15 UTC
Palal wrote:
You two are real confused.

Let me address the buy fuel blocks versus manufacture. And sorry the numbers are even worse; I messed up on my spreadsheet on the first post:

I can manufacture @ 14,100 ISK per block, or roughly 1.62 billion per month in fuel.
I can purchase @20,600 ISK per block, or roughly 2.37 billion per month in fuel.

My revenue is about 3 billion per month. What would you do in this case?

And fuel has risen dramatically in the last few weeks. Consider 1 component - Heavy water. Used to trade for 22 ISK/unit. Now is 225 ISK. That one component alone is almost 100 million more per month. That has NOTHING to do with PI.

Lastly, all my calculations are with 0% waste - so it will be worse if you don't do the material research.

Clearly if you make 3b per month and the fuel blocks are costing you 2.37b, you raise the prices of your goods, everyone with a tower will experience the exact same price hike.


Welcome to economics my good friend

Now, more than ever, we need a dislike button.
Exxter Evox
Tri-Star Enterprise
#33 - 2011-12-04 11:25:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Exxter Evox
Palal wrote:
You two are real confused.

Let me address the buy fuel blocks versus manufacture. And sorry the numbers are even worse; I messed up on my spreadsheet on the first post:

I can manufacture @ 14,100 ISK per block, or roughly 1.62 billion per month in fuel.
I can purchase @20,600 ISK per block, or roughly 2.37 billion per month in fuel.

My revenue is about 3 billion per month. What would you do in this case?

And fuel has risen dramatically in the last few weeks. Consider 1 component - Heavy water. Used to trade for 22 ISK/unit. Now is 225 ISK. That one component alone is almost 100 million more per month. That has NOTHING to do with PI.

Lastly, all my calculations are with 0% waste - so it will be worse if you don't do the material research.





Actually I don't get you. First of, you produce blocks even 33% cheaper than me and that just because i am lasy and produce off of market average prices!
Putting that aside the market just started to run in, everyonne buying now is simply overheading in his/her reaction but at the end of the 2 weeks run-in time the prices adjust and stable out around 22-29k isk each. Loooking at that the run cost of a small and medium pos will even reduce in comparison to the current run costs and I am happy about that.

The single example I can think of is robotics. One Gallente Fuel block has 1/40 of a robotic in it, so 10 blocks (per hour) to fuel one small Gal Tower will just 1/4 of a robotic where as the current gallente or faction gal towers use 1 (in words "one") so my cost in that is quartered. The same counts for some other materials. I dont see your problem m8, your spreadsheets are wrong.

Also the prices of PI stuff will drop again since people are double buying everythin atm. They produce fuel on stock which noone needs and still buy the single materials to fuel their pos directly until the transition takes place. Thus once the transition is over the prices will drop as the PI stuff will"probably" not go into fueling directly anymore but into block production since its cheaper to fuel your pos with blocks.
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#34 - 2011-12-04 12:10:32 UTC
Old vs new Consumption (assuming a ME40 BPO of the fuel blocks and Production Efficiency V skill):

Coolant - 2/4/8 to 2/4/8
Enriched Uranium - 1/2/4 to 1/2/4
Mech Parts - 2/3/5 to 1/2/4
Oxygen - 7/13/25 to 5/10/20
Robotics - 1/1/1 to 0.25/0.50/1.00
Heavy Water - 38/75/150 to 38/75/150
Isotopes - 113/225/450 to 100/200/400
Liquid Ozone - 38/75/150 to 38/75/150

So Mech Parts consumption went down. Oxygen went down. Robotics was even or down. Isotopes went down.

Whether or not that means your fuel costs got cheaper depends on how much HW/LOz you were using before. In general, however, small towers gained the most, followed by medium towers.

Estimated prices: (millions of ISK/30d, S/M/L towers, fuel pellet price with no mark-up)

Amarr: 119 / 221 / 425 - 14768 ISK/u
Caldari: 121 / 225 / 435 - 15099 ISK/u
Gallente: 189 / 362 / 708 - 24578 ISK/u
Minmatar: 122 / 227 / 438 - 15225 ISK/u

Prices:

Coolant - 11.7k
Enriched Uranium - 14.0k
Mech Parts - 11.8k
Oxygen - 529
Robotics - 83.9k
HW - 220
Isotopes - 437-483 (Oxytopes at 1419)
LOz - 461
Mirima Thurander
#35 - 2011-12-04 13:28:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Mirima Thurander
Palal wrote:
You two are real confused.

Let me address the buy fuel blocks versus manufacture. And sorry the numbers are even worse; I messed up on my spreadsheet on the first post:

I can manufacture @ 14,100 ISK per block, or roughly 1.62 billion per month in fuel.
I can purchase @20,600 ISK per block, or roughly 2.37 billion per month in fuel.

My revenue is about 3 billion per month. What would you do in this case?

And fuel has risen dramatically in the last few weeks. Consider 1 component - Heavy water. Used to trade for 22 ISK/unit. Now is 225 ISK. That one component alone is almost 100 million more per month. That has NOTHING to do with PI.

Lastly, all my calculations are with 0% waste - so it will be worse if you don't do the material research.









because everyone's not marking them up because everyone that has a tower now needs to get a small stock, CLEARLY These prices will not Level out at some point

All automated intel should be removed from the game including Instant local/jumps/kills/cynos for all systems/regions.Eve should report nothing like this to the client/3rd party software.Intel should not be force fed to players. Player skill and iniative should be the sources of intel.
Jarnis McPieksu
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2011-12-04 14:12:52 UTC
Current fuel block prices are "too high" because supply is not able to meet demand.

Once the switchover is complete and everyone is running on blocks, expect block prices to be within few percent of the part costs as it is very simple Tech 1 manufacturing operation with potentially massive volume -> people will start doing it in huge quantities and take the isk from the volume.

If you do not have easy access to spare manufacturing capacity, most likely the right choice is to buy blocks :except: perhaps for the very first load. Could also just take a small 1 week load of self-made blocks first (bit of :effort:) and plan on just buying blocks on the market once the situation stabilizes.
Dr Karsun
Coffee Lovers Brewing Club
#37 - 2011-12-04 14:46:15 UTC
Dude, if the fuel block manufacturing is as profitable as you say, I'm going right into that business line.

If it's not, and probably it is not, you'r a liar and just can't do math right.

Even if it costs so much atm , the prices will drop. Currently the biggest price hit is where PI is produced with the increased PI tax, not in the block manufacturing.

Stop whining, change your line of work if it's so profitable. It was unwiser to share that knowledge with us.

"Have you had your morning coffee?" -> the Coffee Lovers Brewing Club is recruiting! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=363976#post363976
CCP Phantom
C C P
C C P Alliance
#38 - 2011-12-04 19:00:54 UTC
Please do not rant and keep the post being constructive.

Thread locked.

Please take the advice of all the good players here. Also keep feedback discussion of Crucible in general here and starbase fuel blocks in special here.

CCP Phantom - Senior Community Developer
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