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[Kronos] Third Person Warp-In/Out Effects

First post
Author
Ammzi
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#61 - 2014-05-23 17:43:23 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Clients do not receive information from the server about cloaked ships that are not their own. The server knows where they all are, but other clients simply are not sent any data on cloaked ships until they become uncloaked. CCP did it this way so that even if you had some way of watching the incoming data stream from their server, you wouldn't be able to know about cloaked ships.


Yes, therefore the wording Noriko used was bad. Because the grid is defined by the information the server retains - and that is your grid. So all ships, cloaked or not cloaked, are part of your grid.

Octoven
Stellar Production
#62 - 2014-05-23 17:57:45 UTC
Montgomery Black wrote:
Ammzi wrote:
With the new changes this means if you are scouting, you can't really tell your FC where the hostile fleet warped because two gates are so close to each other. On TQ right now, unless the gates are completely overlapping it's usually trivial to scout this info.
The below footage shows the actual problem on Sisi and then compares it to right now on TQ. The ship used on Sisi is a redeemer (not a particularly fast warping ship).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAuF46gpowg
and this is for comparison on TQ right now
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yaeVMKDb5E
a long with a screeny where you can see the corp icon indicating clearly what moon the ship warped towards: http://puu.sh/8WACU/8f90d870ce.jpg
This is a serious decrease in functionality and a heavy nerf on scouting.

Please CCP Blaze & Sledgehammer. You are our only hope :3



EvilEvil YES this is a significant nerf to scouting and cloaky tackling.

Example - in WHs we sit cloaked off active POS and watch where ships warp to. If a PI runner warps to a custom office we follow it and using superior speed get their before it and tackle/bubble.

This is a signifcant nerf to WH PVP/Ganking ccp ! FIX NOW before this goes live on Tranq. ! (please)


How about a little common sense? If you see an epithal and it is warping toward a planet there are two possibilities....the planet or POCO. Gee I wonder where they will go? As for overlapping planets and POCOs...make your best guess at least this way you can get off your ass and actually work for your kill rather than saying, "ooohhh lookie he is warping to POCO on planet 4 ok....warp, land, lock, easy kill."
Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#63 - 2014-05-23 18:26:19 UTC
Jessica Danikov wrote:
Being able to visually follow where people warped to has always been a thing, this would just cement it as an intended feature.

Why should we be able to see precisely where a ship is warping to. Just giving an indication as to the general direction is more than enough in my opinion.
Ammzi
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#64 - 2014-05-23 18:42:39 UTC
Octoven wrote:

How about a little common sense? If you see an epithal and it is warping toward a planet there are two possibilities....the planet or POCO. Gee I wonder where they will go? As for overlapping planets and POCOs...make your best guess at least this way you can get off your ass and actually work for your kill rather than saying, "ooohhh lookie he is warping to POCO on planet 4 ok....warp, land, lock, easy kill."


Oh gees. This guy warped towards p5 and there is no other celestials in 180 degrees direction. I wonder which he went to?

^That is no big deal.

Oh gees. This guy warped towards p1,p2,p3, the sun and 3 belts and a gate.
I wonder where he went?

^This is a big deal.

It was possible before, it is not on Sisi and arguing for "well now it's just more difficult deal with it" is boggling my mind. Why don't we just rollback probing to only being able to move one probe at a time then? Wasn't that just more difficult as well? Why should we iterate on it?
Bohneik Itohn
10.K
#65 - 2014-05-23 19:09:28 UTC
Just a polite inquiry since I haven't downloaded SiSi and can't give it a whirl myself. Have you tried using the "Look at" camera to track people warping off?

If you still can't follow them then I'd say it needs to be addressed pretty quickly.

Wait, CCP kills kittens now too?!  - Freyya

Are you a forum alt? Have you ever wondered why your experience on the forums is always so frustrating and unrewarding? This may help.

S'No Flake
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#66 - 2014-05-23 19:18:39 UTC
They should a something in the combat log ... XXX warped to Gate ABC... Or Planet X, Moon IX..
That would solve the intel issue =))
Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#67 - 2014-05-23 20:27:19 UTC
Ive just tested out these effect with two accounts.

The sound effect is a little underwhelming, particularly for cruisers it seems. I'd like to hear the magnitude of the immense energy at work in the sound effect.

Second thing, the warp in effect doesn't appear to work when I hit jump straight to a gate. Just got the standard warp effect. This could be because my other ship was still in warp when the other ship initiated it's warp though. Either way it seems to be a bug though.

Other than that though the effect is very very nice. And when tweaked I am sure we will wonder how we lived without.
Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#68 - 2014-05-23 20:29:22 UTC
Ammzi wrote:
^This is a big deal.

Too many tears. HTFU and deal with it. It is going to be a level playing field for everyone.
ITTigerClawIK
Galactic Rangers
#69 - 2014-05-23 21:23:34 UTC
CCP Blaze wrote:
Just to address a couple of things

1. We decided to keep the effects somewhat toned down/subtle rather than huge loud flashy bursts. Reason being that they will be going off so often we're a little nervous about it getting too prominent/people getting sick of it. This can still be tweaked based on feedback/seeing it in action.

2. As for you own ship the idea is that you wouldn't see this for anyone in your warp "bubble". There's definitely stuff that could be done to give entering and leaving warp more oomph but that would be a different effect.

Keep the feedback coming. I'll check with the sound guys about that volume slider Blink



would have thought the guys doing the new sound volume sliders for kronos would just insert a new slider for the warp effect, maybe i like my warp ins with a bit of oooomph
Ammzi
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#70 - 2014-05-23 21:45:09 UTC
Medalyn Isis wrote:
Ammzi wrote:
^This is a big deal.

Too many tears. HTFU and deal with it. It is going to be a level playing field for everyone.


What ever you do - never get hired by CCP. Please. I would pay you real life money, just stay out of ccp.
Octoven
Stellar Production
#71 - 2014-05-23 23:56:49 UTC
Ammzi wrote:
Octoven wrote:

How about a little common sense? If you see an epithal and it is warping toward a planet there are two possibilities....the planet or POCO. Gee I wonder where they will go? As for overlapping planets and POCOs...make your best guess at least this way you can get off your ass and actually work for your kill rather than saying, "ooohhh lookie he is warping to POCO on planet 4 ok....warp, land, lock, easy kill."


Oh gees. This guy warped towards p5 and there is no other celestials in 180 degrees direction. I wonder which he went to?

^That is no big deal.

Oh gees. This guy warped towards p1,p2,p3, the sun and 3 belts and a gate.
I wonder where he went?

^This is a big deal.

It was possible before, it is not on Sisi and arguing for "well now it's just more difficult deal with it" is boggling my mind. Why don't we just rollback probing to only being able to move one probe at a time then? Wasn't that just more difficult as well? Why should we iterate on it?


You know...the effect doesn't take place until their ship is almost out of view anyway...at which point you can clearly see a streak of light that goes in the direction they are traveling. Im sorry, but if you can't determine in a 40K km streak which direction they are going then perhaps you should get the old probes out and give them a whirl. Or perhaps you might want to take advantage of that nifty little Dscan thing. Does it solve it? No, but this function is FAR from breaking the game. It is just more difficult to see where they do go. To be fair...they are going at the speed of light you shouldnt be ABLE to see where they go, at least the light streak points to the general direction they went. Its up to YOU to fine tune that, quit asking CCP to hold your hand and wanting them to do it for you. I love the change, it makes hunting a bit more challenging and forces you to fine tune your abilities be it intuition, or watching very closely. It honestly is not that big of a deal.
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#72 - 2014-05-24 02:20:56 UTC
Titans warp effect is hard to see.

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.

Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#73 - 2014-05-24 07:32:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Zappity
A little too hard to see and a little too quiet. I understand you don't want it to be intrusive but most people won't even notice it at the current levels.

The sound UI guys are working on the new interface options atm - can you get them to add this?

Edit: but it is VERY cool when you can actually hear and see it!

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.

Ammzi
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#74 - 2014-05-24 08:19:31 UTC
Octoven wrote:
Ammzi wrote:
Octoven wrote:

How about a little common sense? If you see an epithal and it is warping toward a planet there are two possibilities....the planet or POCO. Gee I wonder where they will go? As for overlapping planets and POCOs...make your best guess at least this way you can get off your ass and actually work for your kill rather than saying, "ooohhh lookie he is warping to POCO on planet 4 ok....warp, land, lock, easy kill."


Oh gees. This guy warped towards p5 and there is no other celestials in 180 degrees direction. I wonder which he went to?

^That is no big deal.

Oh gees. This guy warped towards p1,p2,p3, the sun and 3 belts and a gate.
I wonder where he went?

^This is a big deal.

It was possible before, it is not on Sisi and arguing for "well now it's just more difficult deal with it" is boggling my mind. Why don't we just rollback probing to only being able to move one probe at a time then? Wasn't that just more difficult as well? Why should we iterate on it?


You know...the effect doesn't take place until their ship is almost out of view anyway...at which point you can clearly see a streak of light that goes in the direction they are traveling. Im sorry, but if you can't determine in a 40K km streak which direction they are going then perhaps you should get the old probes out and give them a whirl.


Alright - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAuF46gpowg
Which moon did he go to?
On a scale of 1-100 % guaranteed. How easy it is to guess?
Vesan Terakol
Trollgrin Sadface
Dark Taboo
#75 - 2014-05-24 11:09:04 UTC
Ammzi wrote:


Alright - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAuF46gpowg
Which moon did he go to?
On a scale of 1-100 % guaranteed. How easy it is to guess?


MY guess will be 50/50 between the two to the left... i guess we could really use some sort of more persistent trail, as suggested before, maybe staying or 5-10 sec - think Chronicles of Riddick where the necrowhatever commander used the trail from the engines of the mercenary ship to track where they went.

http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120123232028/riddick/images/9/96/Lenser_ion_trail.jpg
Ammzi
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#76 - 2014-05-24 11:43:11 UTC
Vesan Terakol wrote:
Ammzi wrote:


Alright - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAuF46gpowg
Which moon did he go to?
On a scale of 1-100 % guaranteed. How easy it is to guess?


MY guess will be 50/50 between the two to the left... i guess we could really use some sort of more persistent trail, as suggested before, maybe staying or 5-10 sec - think Chronicles of Riddick where the necrowhatever commander used the trail from the engines of the mercenary ship to track where they went.

http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120123232028/riddick/images/9/96/Lenser_ion_trail.jpg


Yep - and compare that to right now on TQ: http://puu.sh/8WACU/8f90d870ce.jpg
You can easily see in that case he went to the right hand moon. The bracket overlaps there for 1-2 seconds and disappears.
Jinn Aideron
#77 - 2014-05-24 12:25:54 UTC
Ammzi wrote:
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
...
Yes, therefore the wording Noriko used was bad. Because the grid is defined by the information the server retains - and that is your grid. So all ships, cloaked or not cloaked, are part of your grid.

Of course, it was an exchange about client side rendering Noriko used this wording in. There is that.

But I'm all for clearly defined terminology in general. Smile

Stealth deletes are bad.

Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#78 - 2014-05-24 13:39:26 UTC
Ammzi wrote:
Octoven wrote:
Ammzi wrote:
Octoven wrote:

How about a little common sense? If you see an epithal and it is warping toward a planet there are two possibilities....the planet or POCO. Gee I wonder where they will go? As for overlapping planets and POCOs...make your best guess at least this way you can get off your ass and actually work for your kill rather than saying, "ooohhh lookie he is warping to POCO on planet 4 ok....warp, land, lock, easy kill."


Oh gees. This guy warped towards p5 and there is no other celestials in 180 degrees direction. I wonder which he went to?

^That is no big deal.

Oh gees. This guy warped towards p1,p2,p3, the sun and 3 belts and a gate.
I wonder where he went?

^This is a big deal.

It was possible before, it is not on Sisi and arguing for "well now it's just more difficult deal with it" is boggling my mind. Why don't we just rollback probing to only being able to move one probe at a time then? Wasn't that just more difficult as well? Why should we iterate on it?


You know...the effect doesn't take place until their ship is almost out of view anyway...at which point you can clearly see a streak of light that goes in the direction they are traveling. Im sorry, but if you can't determine in a 40K km streak which direction they are going then perhaps you should get the old probes out and give them a whirl.


Alright - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAuF46gpowg
Which moon did he go to?
On a scale of 1-100 % guaranteed. How easy it is to guess?

the one on the left, i'd say with 80-90% certainty,
its not a nerf,
deal with it and stop pissing on ccp sledgehammer's parade.
Ammzi
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#79 - 2014-05-24 14:46:53 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:

the one on the left, i'd say with 80-90% certainty,
its not a nerf,
deal with it and stop pissing on ccp sledgehammer's parade.


(7:16:51 PM) ammzi: Isa:
(7:16:55 PM) ammzi: you went to the right hand moon
(7:16:57 PM) ammzi: in
(7:17:00 PM) ammzi: on sisi?
(7:17:01 PM) ammzi: with the deemer?
...
(7:27:12 PM) Isa: ammzi: yeah, the one on the right 13.



(13 being the moon at p5.)
CCP Blaze said they will be looking into it, so I am happy. I am not here to **** on anyone's parade, I think the graphical effects look awesome, but there's no need for them to not have the same functionality as right now on TQ.
Syri Taneka
NOVA-CAINE
#80 - 2014-05-24 21:54:02 UTC
CCP Sledgehammer wrote:
Terranid Meester wrote:
Heres hoping cloaked ships remain silent when warpong in and out ^-^


They do. Of course if you find any exceptions to this then please submit a bug report as cloaked ships SHOULD NOT create the effects when arriving at or leaving grid.


I actually like the notion of cloaked ships making the sound of entering/leaving FTL, because *the ship is still there, even if you can't see it*. However, the fact you can't see it means the light effect should not happen.

This would give players a minor tactical advantage while, somewhat more importantly, increasing the tension factor because, "Oh ****, there's a cloaky on grid with me! I have no idea where he is! Am I safe?"