EVE General Discussion

New content can be created without shafting the existing playerbase and the time they've invested. It's only about the money to people like you, and it doesn't surprise me at all that your 'math' agrees.

If you're bored after a long time and think boosting SP acquistion is the answer, you're probably either on your way out and looking for end-game triumph or not considering the wider effects properly. I'd really go with selfish over ignorant motivation here. The more vocal supporters know or have basic awareness of the wider effects, (they just don't care, bags are packed already).

There have been imbalances before, from the creation of bloodlines with enhanced stats (anyone remember the old vid that showed achura as pammie? :P) all of which have been rebalanced, in favour of newer players. Which the existing ones with a brain largely supported, and the old fail grinders whined about (see the recent drone change screeching as an example). Some of you SP grinders pop out from time-to-time to whitter about your 'advantage' and are pretty much slapped about, then you retreat and come back demanding SP boosts. Nope, you're still just mediocre players trying to leverage money/time vs better players/time invested properly.

All you lot want to introduce is a mechanic which would allow some of the dumbest vets - who are likely not very good players in the first place, and have no sense of achievement anywhere else - to finally latch onto something to justify their superiority complex. Not a chance.

…and PLEX is still not a factor.
And skipping game mechanics and time is an idiotic idea no matter what.


One has skipped the game mechanics and created time out of nowhere. The other has not. Skipping game mechanics, by very definition, breaks the game.

You know what, Angelique? My previous reply to BeBop made me further refine my position.


You're proposal is two-fold, too. You're suggesting:

1) CCP should introduce the possibility to double your training time

2) it should cost 1 PLEX / month (on top of sub)


Now, let's consider the current situation, which is:

1) You already can increase your base training time, with tools called 'implants', by roughly 20% maximum with +5s

2) These tools are seeded in game (LP stores), +5s are currently traded for 100Mil each (one time only! not once a month)


So what you're suggestion boils down to is:

a) after 11 years, add a whopping +100% to that +20% max skill training boost, for a grand total of +140%

b) make it available for PLEX instead of by use of an in-game item

c) make it very expensive (700Mil / month is much more than 400Mil one-time only)


I think your suggestion is very bad indeed, because:

a) skill training time is a carefully balanced core EVE mechanic, just doubling it overnight is plain silly

b) everything in EVE being in-game is another core mechanic, a great one actually, I see no good reason to change it

c) making a bad idea expensive doesn't make it good


TL;DR it's not so much about pay or not pay-to-win, it's just a terrible idea that messes up core EVE mechanics for no good reason

Just joking. Btw, this is my main and I have a jaw-breaking total of 15 Mil SP. I still think the game is quite fine the way it is.


Serious question. GSF and PL are arguably the two most powerful alliances in the game, atm. It took them several years to build up their ISK, sovreignty, social connections, out-of-game tools, POSs, sov structures, ships, asset stockpiles, etc. etc.

Do you want some of that at an accelerated rate, too?

…and thus, PLEX is not SP. PLEX is not a factor in the speed at which you gain SP. This is a good thing.
I currently sit at some 140M SP. Would you like to guess how many PLEX have been used to achieve this?

No.
The beauty of the SP system is that it does not create a caste system, thereby avoiding the trap that pretty much every other MMO ever (except maybe Planetside) has fallen into. The strict limits on how much you can gain, the marginal improvements for exponential cost, and the highly limited amount of ability that can be used any one point all come together to ensure that simply having spent more time offers pretty much zero advantage. What matters is picking the right time to fight the right person on the right terms.

It's most spectacular merit is that it lets you play the game and not care one whit about this irrelevant character progression nonsense. Instead of being stuck in a ball-ache game of meta-mechanics because you get passively punished for not doing so, you can just enjoy the regular game mechanics of whatever activity you like the most and the progression trundles along without you.

A “merit” system (more accurately: a grind system) was actually tried in the early days and, completely unsurprisingly, it failed spectacularly by only ever creating a hideously unbalanced and unfun gameplay. Because that's what it always does. It was then duly excised from the game for being a laughably bad idea and thrown in the trash where it belongs.

It's an idiotic grind mechanic that keeps you from playing the game. It is also hilariously exploitable and only manages to highlight your interest in playing character progression, not playing anything that has to do with EVE. May I suggest this for your leisure?

It's P2W in the same way that buying a Rokh at Jita IV-4 is P2W.

i got a better idea,

you get bonus UNSPENT SP FOR ACTIVELY PLAYING THE GAME *honestly only seeing this working mechanically for faction warefare and pve missions/incursions but i am sure CCP can come up with a creative way.

but it would be very very small amount, but it would allow for the moments to jump a skill up, or fill one up after a long time as a bonus.

like lets say it's a 5% bonus for a normal player and for those hardcord eve players who know everything the best way and fastest way at most being a 10% boost from normal sp gains.


and by normal sp gains i assume 20 in the attribute with no implants in the math.

overall not a big way of speeding up SP gains, but a nice bonus to allow you to allocate points and *feel better*

My, we do put on airs don't we? While concurrency dropped, it shot right back up again within a very short time. This suggests that thousands and thousands of players did no such thing.

And, I might point out, they suggested a lot of stuff that was pretty much cosmetic, but someone (me) used it and started a shitstorm in the forums about 'gold rounds' and strung a large body of gullible idiots along before it got hijacked by goonswarm.

I kind of wish I hadn't now, because A) it made Goons most epic troll to date possible, and B) I actually like the idea of WiS but found the utter lackluster release of it basically insulting. We had more finished in 2008 than was released in Incarna.

Not really. It kept dropping for a scarily long time, and shot back up only once they had, not just thoroughly recanted their previously chosen direction, but also provided proof positive that they were going down a very different path.

Interesting story. History doesn't really agree, though, since it was CCP that started that by suggesting a lot of stuff that was functional rather than just the cosmetic bits they've promised to restrict themselves to, and even going so far as trying to implement one before the CSM stepped in and explained what a bad idea it was.

If you managed to troll a few goons, good for you. Don't for a second think that you had anything to do with CCP's very explicit and very public missteps in that direction, though.

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However you want to justify it to yourself you are being hypocritical. You have paid to win. Game length takes money. Whether it was paid with monthly fees, time codes, plexes, or isk, all have a value that is equal to $15, that is equal to a plex, that is equal to isk. You have paid for your 140M SPs. Whether someone pays for it over time or all at once, does not make a difference. One option is no more noble than the other.

I like having a problem to discuss. I am enjoying everyone else's responses and posts. But I do not like you. You are hypocritical, territorial, and rude to everyone who disagrees with. You have 140M SPs that you are presenting like it is an achievement and your only interest has shown to be protecting that status. It's not an achievement. You paid for it. You get x amount of SPs a day, each day cost x amount of some monetary value whichever you are choosing. That status and SPs were paid for, but now you don't want other players to have a chance to pay more than you.

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A caste system is a locked class system where the lower class can never move up above the higher class. The SP system is exactly this. The above argument is nonsensical.

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Then again I must say if SPs don't matter, why protect them so much? How could they be game breaking? Do you just not want other players to experience and be able to try out all the facets of the game?


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Pure ad hominem. My fun is wrong bad fun bc it's not the same as your fun. Your insulting other game systems and accusing them of creating the very problem Eve does for others. Yes in WoW a lvl 70 will never lose to a Lvl 10 but that Lvl 10 can play their butt off and surpass a Lvl 69. And straw maning assuming the way I like to play is inferior and therefor not "getting" the game the way it should be. I paid for it. I obviously see whats fun about and I definitely do like that I could find you on the wrong day and possibly pod you if it was the right day for me. I never said Eve had it entirely wrong and needed to be like other games. I acknowledged that their is a ceiling for new players built into the game, that P2W was built into the game, and suggested some ways of making it more accessible to new players who are bothered by this ceiling.

Maybe if you stopped being so territorial about the status you have bought yourself in Eve you would see that the very things you listed as not liking about typical MMOs is what some new players are experiencing in Eve. And maybe if you were considerate of others' fun, you wouldn't occupy yourself with just protecting your position and have valuable input as to how new players could feel less limited and get to enjoy more of a great game.