Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Several reasons for keeping t2 BPO's in the game have been presented. Furthermore, since they are ALREADY in the game, the onus is on the opposition to explain why they should be removed. So far, a logical argument beyond QQ, they are producing and selling a few select low-volume t2 items below invention production costs, hasn't been presented. And why does anyone care if they produce those few select items more cheaply?

Gave you a +1 for referring to the Greater Fool theory and T2 tulips... I mean BPOs

My, you must have spent some time on that post. I'll try to match that effort with my response.

1) So did invention.

2) So did invention.

3) No, because at no point was any statement made that they would go. Rebalancing them, rather than removing them, is still a possibility and one that any reasonable person should prefer.

4) Yes, I agree.

5) I don't feel they are defensible, they need to be changed. I am a T2 BPO owner that is part of an organization that owns a motherload of them though, so take from that what you will.

My view would be to make T2 production a POS only activity.

You can keep T2 BPOs as a collectors item in station if you want, at no risk, but they don't get to make anything (not even copies). But if you want to risk their destruction or theft you can manufacture with them at a POS, or copy them at a POS.

I'd make the same apply to invention, because making money from the safety of the station is what T1 is for. You inventors should all be out at the POS anyway, it's where all the cool kids hang out.

Then I'd make all destroyed T2 BPOs re-issue through invention, to inventors, who will benefit from the reduction in clickfest that they offer. This should happen automatically on an ongoing basis.

This would also remove any issues with 0.0 outposts interacting with T2 BPOs.

With that and the changes CCP have already announced, I'd be happy both as a person who values good gameplay, conflict drivers and a healthy economy and as a T2 BPO owner.

Yeah, it's an idea I feel has many benefits. The limited number of moons around the population hotspots would force an extra incentive to spread out too.

My only real question is, how many inventors are currently station bound and are there any compelling reasons for them to remain so. If it comes down to bad POS functionality and corp roles, then it'll come when those get fixed and they're already on the fairly near term agenda.

Obviously many of the more risk adverse T2 BPO owners will be whincing at this idea. But supercapital builders have to put their dicks into a vice every time they press build. You can handle a little risk.

I don't know, that seems to me to be just like runs on copies but a little more difficult to comprehend.

Oh Lucas did you really just do that? still so mad at the riches? (Oh no I know, you are never mad and actually couldnt care less about T2 BPO's but 3 hours typing about it a day ain't nothing)

I like this idea

Are they NEEDED? No! That should be reason enough to remove them from the game. But... T2 BPOs are relics that hold back game mechanics iteration.

They potentially place artificial caps and limits on the value of the entire invention process from the invention material to the market value.

No invention materials are used in the creation of items built with T2 BPOs. Because of this, T2 BPOs place a cap on invention materials. If BPOs were no longer used then more items would be produced using invention materials. The market for invention materials would become more valuable. It would also be able to drive T2 market profit and prices.

Make the BPOs collectible items and they will still have value just like the dozens of trillion ISK collector ships in the game.

If you think it is a bad idea to remove them it is because you either don't understand the game or you benefit from their existence.

I think it is funny defenders of BPOs jump on the forums with the expressed intention of getting forums locked in hopes it will just go away.

Don't pick an item that has such a minimal impact as your one true example. Pick interceptors or strip miners or drones or exhumers or command ships.

Show me how CCP could make invention outshine a BPO so that it improves the invention process from RnD to Production but also do it in a way that tiptoes around BPOs and allows them to make the same margins they currently do. You can't. BPOs sit in the middle of the invention chain and caps and stabilizes everything. We don't need stabilization any more. Hundreds of thousands of eve pilots have RnD agents and have the skills to invent.

Modifying the BPO affects invention at the sametime since invention creates BPCs of the BPO. The idea you had is pointless. You nerf the invention at the same rate as BPOs. Try again. I thought you would know this. I guess producing from BPOs might have made you forget how BPCs and invention works.

The point of this thread is not to make invention better while keeping BPOs alive. BPOs are not required. The removal of BPOs and turning them in to collector items prevents the need for CCP to tiptoe around T2 BPOs. It is the only way CCP can make real changes to improve the invention process.