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Crashing The New Eden Economy

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SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#41 - 2014-05-23 14:30:21 UTC
Are we back to treating Xenuria like people? What?

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

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Dramaticus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#42 - 2014-05-23 15:52:32 UTC
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Are we back to treating Xenuria like people? What?


No.

The 'do-nothing' member of the GoonSwarm Economic Warfare Cabal

The edge is REALLY hard to see at times but it DOES exist and in this case we were looking at a situation where a new feature created for all of our customers was being virtually curbstomped by five of them
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#43 - 2014-05-23 16:54:37 UTC
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
Either way, while I do see the plex market as a gauge of the value of ISK, I don't see it as the central point of New Edens Economy. If you really want to crash the New Eden Economy, manipulate the tritanium market, which I believe is near impossible.


Basically this. If you really want to mess up the economy, you'll have to manipulate trit, which is insanely difficult.

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Aralez
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#44 - 2014-05-23 17:11:01 UTC
Steve Celeste wrote:
PLEX is just another ingame item that should be 100% in the domain of the player run economy.

This last wednesday there was another intevention on the PLEX market when we were about to break through towards 800m plex.
It is absolutely disgusting that CCP directly intervenes in this way.

What's next?
Spawning Tritanium on the market when the price goes up too fast?
Locking down sovereignty when a single entity is about to take over all of nullsec?


The people that use their hard earned money to buy PLEX deserve to get as much ISK as possible for it.
CCP, stop trying to force people into having to buy more PLEX for real money to get that shiny ship they want.


Plex intervention is scamming customers out of their money. It needs to stop immediately.


I remember when plex was roughly 365m a pop, it was so easy to plex accounts then, now its getting to a point where I got to decide if its worth the grind or just pay subscription fee's.. and I'm rocking 2 fewer accounts than before and I often gotta let my alt go inactive.
Its a slippery slope and as much as people don't like ccp intervening with the market when it comes to something like plex which effects subscriptions and active users.. it does need to be monitored unfortunately
Steve Celeste
Doomheim
#45 - 2014-05-23 17:48:05 UTC
People need to realize that EVE is not a free to play game.

Either you pay for the game or you have the market skill or lots of free time to grind for your monthly PLEX.
Can't do either of those things? Then CCP should not subsidize you by artificially trying to keep PLEX prices down (and failing 9 out of 10 times I might add).

I really like that EVE is not free to play, it keeps the riff raff out.
Once Dr. Enyo and his socialist "help the poor" policies are in the public sector where they belong, this back door of letting freeloaders in can be permanently closed.

Want to play for free and have an army of alts? Get good or get out.
Maxpie
MUSE LLP
#46 - 2014-05-23 17:50:48 UTC
Send me all your isk and plex. I'll test it out for you and let you know the results.

No good deed goes unpunished
Xenuria
#47 - 2014-05-23 19:22:11 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
Xenuria wrote:
This is a legitimate question because its been proven that CCP has directly influenced the market artificially. As gross and inappropriate as it is, it is a reality.

How are CCP supposed to operate without influencing the market? Everything they do affects the market in some way.


I always figured that the idea or at least the goal was to have a market run by and for players.
With the reality that CCP CAN and WILL intervene to prevent economic collapse, it is no longer a player market then is it?

It's another concept that sounds nice expect for the above mention caveats.




Even if the item in question is not PLEX, there is still a very real possibility that CCP would intervene if that item caused enough problems. This is an upsetting and problematic concept for me because I want to think that players earn and loss isk of their own merit of failure.

CSM 12 Candidate
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#48 - 2014-05-23 19:23:58 UTC
Xenuria wrote:
I always figured that the idea or at least the goal was to have a market run by and for players.
With the reality that CCP CAN and WILL intervene to prevent economic collapse, it is no longer a player market then is it?
Yes it is.
One does not exclude the other.
Xenuria
#49 - 2014-05-23 19:25:28 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Xenuria wrote:
I always figured that the idea or at least the goal was to have a market run by and for players.
With the reality that CCP CAN and WILL intervene to prevent economic collapse, it is no longer a player market then is it?
Yes it is.
One does not exclude the other.


I disagree, they are in fact mutually exclusive.

A player controlled market cannot be such if there are back doors for CCP to artificially change things. The potential for abuse is not only really high but readily demonstrable.

CSM 12 Candidate
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#50 - 2014-05-23 19:30:49 UTC
Xenuria wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Xenuria wrote:
I always figured that the idea or at least the goal was to have a market run by and for players.
With the reality that CCP CAN and WILL intervene to prevent economic collapse, it is no longer a player market then is it?
Yes it is.
One does not exclude the other.


I disagree, they are in fact mutually exclusive.

A player controlled market cannot be such if there are back doors for CCP to artificially change things. The potential for abuse is not only really high but readily demonstrable.


Even if you were right, so what? Does it make you unhappy? If so, unsub.
Aralez
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#51 - 2014-05-23 19:33:14 UTC
Steve Celeste wrote:
People need to realize that EVE is not a free to play game.

Either you pay for the game or you have the market skill or lots of free time to grind for your monthly PLEX.
Can't do either of those things? Then CCP should not subsidize you by artificially trying to keep PLEX prices down (and failing 9 out of 10 times I might add).

I really like that EVE is not free to play, it keeps the riff raff out.
Once Dr. Enyo and his socialist "help the poor" policies are in the public sector where they belong, this back door of letting freeloaders in can be permanently closed.

Want to play for free and have an army of alts? Get good or get out.


I do understand where your coming from but, really how fun would this game be if when you log in theres only 5-10k active pilots instead of 40-60k pilots on, because us ol' vetrans had the "get good or get out" mentality. wheres your noobs to kill,and your mass's that keep that market going.. Just saying them plex prices go over 800m and creep toward 1b per plex.. its gunna be rough times for alot of players..
And i personally pay for 1 year subscription and plex other accounts as needed.
Lady Areola Fappington
#52 - 2014-05-23 19:34:10 UTC
Xenuria wrote:


I disagree, they are in fact mutually exclusive.

A player controlled market cannot be such if there are back doors for CCP to artificially change things. The potential for abuse is not only really high but readily demonstrable.


EVE is CCP's money maker. It would be silly of them NOT to have "back doors" into such things. You're never going to have a "pure" economy, because CCP has a compelling interest to step in and control things when crap gets out of whack.

We're playing a video game for funsies here, and if maintaining "fun" levels means we have to sacrifice the ultimate purity of a totally player controlled market, so be it. CCP has been pretty subtle about their tweaks so far, so there's not a whole lot of evidence warranting going off the deep end.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#53 - 2014-05-23 19:37:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Xenuria wrote:
I disagree, they are in fact mutually exclusive.
Nope.
In fact, they are inherently linked: if it wasn't a player-run market, dev intervention would not even be possible, much less necessary.

Quote:
A player controlled market cannot be such if there are back doors for CCP to artificially change things.
CCP have artificially changed everything. That doesn't make it a player-controlled market — it just makes it a player-controlled market that occasionally needs adjustment, which if it comes as shocking news to you, means you have no idea about how the market works.

In this case, it's not even particularly artificial or a change — it's just a slight stir in the pot. They haven't set any prices or altered any mechanics or stats.

Quote:
The potential for abuse is not only really high but readily demonstrable.
Not only is the potential for abuse zero, but also utterly pointless.
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#54 - 2014-05-23 19:41:45 UTC
Xenuria wrote:
This year at fanfest a CCP dev said that when the plex market was peaking, he took it upon himself to artificially modify the game economy. I have a few questions about this.

1. If a player has enough in-game currency to buy all the plex on the Jita market, if that player within their right to do so?

2. If the same player puts all this plex into a cargo container and then blows up said container, has this player violated any rules?

3. Should any of the above listed events occur what safety measures are in place to prevent CCP from counter acting this large scale change in the market?


Yes, No, Potato

Also, I am outraged that you are trying to incite outrage at this outrageousless act.

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
Myfanwy Heimdal
Heimdal Freight and Manufacture Inc
#55 - 2014-05-23 19:57:16 UTC
Abrazzar wrote:
1. Yes
2. No
3. What measures have you taken in case aliens abduct you in the night?


3. What makes you think that this hasn't happened?

Pam:  I wonder what my name means in Welsh?Nessa: Why?
NEONOVUS
Mindstar Technology
Goonswarm Federation
#56 - 2014-05-23 19:59:57 UTC
I thought this was more or less why PLEX was already so high?
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#57 - 2014-05-23 20:42:01 UTC
Xenuria wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Xenuria wrote:
I always figured that the idea or at least the goal was to have a market run by and for players.
With the reality that CCP CAN and WILL intervene to prevent economic collapse, it is no longer a player market then is it?
Yes it is.
One does not exclude the other.


I disagree, they are in fact mutually exclusive.

A player controlled market cannot be such if there are back doors for CCP to artificially change things. The potential for abuse is not only really high but readily demonstrable.

No system is perfect forever. Adjustments will always need to be made. Talking about live systems as if they are perfect socioeconomic models is pointless.

There's plenty of potential for abuse when currencies get adjusted and corporations get bailed out but it happens anyway.

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.
Marsha Mallow
#58 - 2014-05-23 20:54:15 UTC
Xenuria wrote:
A player controlled market cannot be such if there are back doors for CCP to artificially change things. The potential for abuse is not only really high but readily demonstrable.

I love how you moan about Plex prices being adjusted, but I've never seen the slightest whiff of outrage when CCP or any of their resellers run a Plex offer. Or power-of-two, or any of the enhanced buddy features. No-one seems to be crying over BPOs still being NPC seeded either.

Plex doesn't follow the normal sandbox elements as it can be purchased out of game and directly ties in to subs. It should be monitored independently and have it's own regulation.

As far as we've been told, Plex price stabilisation is done is by releasing plex/goods from confiscated accounts. If you think carefully, assets removed via bans also falls into economic interference (and may well cause inflation) so releasing it back into the economy is not artificial, whereas holding it in confiscation is.

If you want to generate some outrage over something, try to find a less feeble topic/argument.

Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:

Sweets > U can dd my face any day
Brainless Bimbo
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#59 - 2014-05-23 21:37:40 UTC
Nice troll

(either you thought it out or too stupid to realize its epic trollness)

already dead, just haven´t fallen over yet....
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#60 - 2014-05-23 22:04:17 UTC
Xenuria wrote:
This year at fanfest a CCP dev said that when the plex market was peaking, he took it upon himself to artificially modify the game economy. I have a few questions about this.

1. If a player has enough in-game currency to buy all the plex on the Jita market, if that player within their right to do so?

2. If the same player puts all this plex into a cargo container and then blows up said container, has this player violated any rules?

3. Should any of the above listed events occur what safety measures are in place to prevent CCP from counter acting this large scale change in the market?


Plex is a Fiat currency, ccp just create more and seed the market again.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...