These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Crashing The New Eden Economy

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#21 - 2014-05-23 07:23:03 UTC
You will never know if you not try.

Custom ship skins, character creator style "repaint". Bring it!
Dub Step
Death To Everyone But Us
#22 - 2014-05-23 07:26:49 UTC
Akita T wrote:
The outrage is strong in this one, called "Xenuria". But does he have a point? In the opening paragraph, no such point that would justify any outrage is made.
Also, no concrete details as to HOW EXACTLY the "gross manipulation" was practically implemented were mentioned, let alone discussed in order to analyze their appropriateness.

Basically, "feh".


This.

CCP may influence the market, but outright manipulation does not happen.

Nothing else to talk about really unless we have a full insight into their practices.
Dave Stark
#23 - 2014-05-23 07:28:47 UTC
threads like this are why he didn't make it on to the csm.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#24 - 2014-05-23 07:54:30 UTC
Xenuria wrote:
This year at fanfest a CCP dev said that when the plex market was peaking, he took it upon himself to artificially modify the game economy. I have a few questions about this.

1. If a player has enough in-game currency to buy all the plex on the Jita market, if that player within their right to do so?

2. If the same player puts all this plex into a cargo container and then blows up said container, has this player violated any rules?

3. Should any of the above listed events occur what safety measures are in place to prevent CCP from counter acting this large scale change in the market?
CCP will intervene on the plex market, so yes, they would probably intervene in this case. That said, it''s the only market they will intervene on. You could buy up pretty much anything else and they won't touch it. You could for example find a well used meta module, buy all of them and repro them. Since their supply is random, there's no way to effectively farm them so you'd pretty much put the module out of use for a while. CCP wouldn't seed them to get them back on the market.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
#25 - 2014-05-23 08:00:50 UTC
Xenuria wrote:
This is a legitimate question because its been proven that CCP has directly influenced the market artificially. As gross and inappropriate as it is, it is a reality.

The artificial influence CCP had in the particular instance of market manipulation is particularly interesting because it did not involve artificially introducing PLEX into the market.
I don't know precisely what Eyo did to forestall the market manipulation attempt in question but I don't think it can be called "gross and inappropriate" as it did not change the supply side of the equation and demand still seems to be relatively consistent...
Perhaps, as with the first FW manipulation, the problem was with how game systems interacted and the artificial influence was simply to remove that disconnect. If the manipulation was exploitative then stopping an exploit is hardly gross or inappropriate.
Evelyn Meiyi
Corvidae Trading and Holding
#26 - 2014-05-23 08:06:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Evelyn Meiyi
Xenuria wrote:


This is a legitimate question because its been proven that CCP has directly influenced the market artificially. As gross and inappropriate as it is, it is a reality.


As a closed system, occasional intervention is required in any online economic system. Occasionally, money is removed (or inserted) artificially to keep the system working at a reasonable level of supply-and-demand.

ISK sinks and faucets only go so far. and only as long as the players make adequate use of them.

:Edit: To address the original point:

If, for some reason, someone gathered enough ISK to purchase an entire hold full of PLEX, and then simply blew it up in space, CCP could quite easily adjust the ISK price of the PLEX manually and negate any impact such a tactic would have. Would it be a good idea to do so? It's hard to tell unless someone actually tries it, but it would certainly cause market imbalances.
Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#27 - 2014-05-23 08:11:19 UTC
Abrazzar wrote:
3. What measures have you taken in case aliens abduct you in the night?
I for my part wear a probe proof chastity belt at night. Makes me feel safe.

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.
La Rynx
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#28 - 2014-05-23 08:53:39 UTC
Xenuria wrote:
This is a legitimate question because its been proven that CCP has directly influenced the market artificially. As gross and inappropriate as it is, it is a reality.


Thats not gross and not inappropriate, since the Market is a part of EvE and EvE belongs to CCP.

So please yes, try to buy as much Plex as possible, you whould do CCP a very big favor. The only ones that can generate Plex is CCP, all other sources are resellers. it would be like directly send CCP a nice amount of money. You wan't cause more than a short spike until the market has regulated it self.

Atomic Virulent : "You can't spell DOUCHE. without CODE."
Nicolai Serkanner
Incredible.
Brave Collective
#29 - 2014-05-23 11:06:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolai Serkanner
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Look.

CCP has embraced Ayn Rand's warped view of a utopia created by people making decisions based on "enlightened self-interest".

In the real world, we have seen how well that works with object lessons like Somalia, Ethiopia, and to some extent Russia. The u.s is heading as fast as it can down that path with their "libertarianism = freedom" insanity.

CCP has decided if someone can corner the market on plexes, which requires something in the high hundreds of billions / low trillions, that is perfectly acceptable, even celebrated, within the Eve universe. We have dozens of acolytes of Ayn Rand rushing to defend this Eve culture as one that is "good for the game", every day on the forum, especially the ones ruthless enough to use the constructs provided by CCP to achieve a dominant position within the game.

But bottom line, the vast majority of humans, no matter how morally flawed we are as a species, recognizes that this kind of behavior should be abhorred, not celebrated. That is why Eve subs are stagnant, even falling (which CCP refuses to acknowledge as they won't release full CSM voting data). CCP has captured the full market of sick individuals that think crushing all others makes for great fun. There is not a lot of movement left in that that market segment. But on the other hand, there is large downside on driving people from the game, the ones that like to play a co-operative, or at the very least., a benign game.

As CCP continues down the path that the null sec cartels have laid out for them, CCP will learn that advertising "be the villain " might not be the best marketing strategy, sort of like New Coke was not that great.


And again you have managed to crack me up. Please never leave.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#30 - 2014-05-23 11:15:29 UTC
If I had that kind of money, I'd do it just for the lulz. To see all the threads dripping with tears and entitlement about how they can't play for free anymore would be true hilarity.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#31 - 2014-05-23 11:23:41 UTC
Xenuria wrote:
This is a legitimate question because its been proven that CCP has directly influenced the market artificially. As gross and inappropriate as it is, it is a reality.

How are CCP supposed to operate without influencing the market? Everything they do affects the market in some way.

Oh god.
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2014-05-23 12:32:20 UTC
The only people that really care about PLEX prices are newer players struggling because they are trying to PLEX far too early.

In the end PLEX are ONLY in the game at all as a way to counter RMT so its pretty safe to assume they are not actually "player driven" and CCP will interfere when necessary.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#33 - 2014-05-23 12:54:00 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Look.

CCP has embraced Ayn Rand's warped view of a utopia created by people making decisions based on "enlightened self-interest".

In the real world, we have seen how well that works with object lessons like Somalia, Ethiopia, and to some extent Russia. The u.s is heading as fast as it can down that path with their "libertarianism = freedom" insanity.

CCP has decided if someone can corner the market on plexes, which requires something in the high hundreds of billions / low trillions, that is perfectly acceptable, even celebrated, within the Eve universe. We have dozens of acolytes of Ayn Rand rushing to defend this Eve culture as one that is "good for the game", every day on the forum, especially the ones ruthless enough to use the constructs provided by CCP to achieve a dominant position within the game.

But bottom line, the vast majority of humans, no matter how morally flawed we are as a species, recognizes that this kind of behavior should be abhorred, not celebrated. That is why Eve subs are stagnant, even falling (which CCP refuses to acknowledge as they won't release full CSM voting data). CCP has captured the full market of sick individuals that think crushing all others makes for great fun. There is not a lot of movement left in that that market segment. But on the other hand, there is large downside on driving people from the game, the ones that like to play a co-operative, or at the very least., a benign game.

As CCP continues down the path that the null sec cartels have laid out for them, CCP will learn that advertising "be the villain " might not be the best marketing strategy, sort of like New Coke was not that great.


Every once in a while a poster will give you a glimpse of their real world beliefs and suddenly their in game insanity makes all kinds of sense. I'm not one who believes 100% that how a person acts in game is how they act out of game, but for some people it's true.

The bolded part is an example. You display the false consensus crap in game all the time on these forums (when you pretend to be the appointed speaker of the high sec majority, which is somehow the majority AND the oppressed all at the same time).

And it seems you do it out of game too. Is it really so hard to understand that you are merely an individual like the rest of us and can speak for none other than yourself (unless you have the express consent of others to speak for them, like having been elected to something lol)? Is it really that hard to jsut say "I don't like things about CCP and EVE Online" rather than "the majority of us are victimised by CCP and we'll show them!" lol.

The underlined bit proves what I already know. It's not EVE that is the problem, it's you.

EVE was conceived as a competitive game. It allows 'benign co-operation' but demands competition. Yet you still chose to play it, despite the fact that you knew of should have known that you don't like competitive (dare i say "capitalistic") gameplay. Ironically it's your choosing to play it that has helped prop it up for so long. If you 'I hate EVE, capitalism, Ayn Rand and Freedom but maybe one day CCP will sell it to some socialist or anarchist developers and i'll like it' crowd would stop giving CCP money , what you want to happen may have happened a long time ago lol.


stoicfaux
#34 - 2014-05-23 12:58:40 UTC
-1 a T2 PLEX BPO would be bad for the game.


Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#35 - 2014-05-23 13:12:42 UTC
Yes, no, none.
Xenuria wrote:
This is a legitimate question because its been proven that CCP has directly influenced the market artificially. As gross and inappropriate as it is, it is a reality.

Not really, no, so what?

Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
But bottom line, the vast majority of humans, no matter how morally flawed we are as a species, recognizes that this kind of behavior should be abhorred, not celebrated. That is why Eve subs are stagnant, even falling (which CCP refuses to acknowledge as they won't release full CSM voting data). CCP has captured the full market of sick individuals that think crushing all others makes for great fun. There is not a lot of movement left in that that market segment. But on the other hand, there is large downside on driving people from the game, the ones that like to play a co-operative, or at the very least., a benign game.
No, not really, no, not really, not really.

Quote:
As CCP continues down the path that the null sec cartels have laid out for them, CCP will learn that advertising "be the villain " might not be the best marketing strategy, sort of like New Coke was not that great.
No, no, yes it is, idiotic comparison.

There, that should take care of most the nonsense in this thread.
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#36 - 2014-05-23 13:20:35 UTC
Guess the post was so bad even Tippia couldn't be bothered to give more than 2 word answers.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden
Toriessian
Helion Production Labs
Independent Operators Consortium
#37 - 2014-05-23 13:30:52 UTC
Tippia is just demonstrating how to post responses in an efficient manner for those of us reading the forums at work.

Every day I'm wafflin!
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#38 - 2014-05-23 13:30:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
Guess the post was so bad even Tippia couldn't be bothered to give more than 2 word answers.

The only reason it''s not just a single “no“ is because it either would confirm an incorrect negative claim, or be bad answer for a non-binary question.

Then again, I suppose “wrong” repeated 18 times would work too… P
Laughable Xhosa Girl
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#39 - 2014-05-23 13:36:31 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Look.

CCP has embraced Ayn Rand's warped view of a utopia created by people making decisions based on "enlightened self-interest".

In the real world, we have seen how well that works with object lessons like Somalia, Ethiopia, and to some extent Russia. The u.s is heading as fast as it can down that path with their "libertarianism = freedom" insanity.

CCP has decided if someone can corner the market on plexes, which requires something in the high hundreds of billions / low trillions, that is perfectly acceptable, even celebrated, within the Eve universe. We have dozens of acolytes of Ayn Rand rushing to defend this Eve culture as one that is "good for the game", every day on the forum, especially the ones ruthless enough to use the constructs provided by CCP to achieve a dominant position within the game.

But bottom line, the vast majority of humans, no matter how morally flawed we are as a species, recognizes that this kind of behavior should be abhorred, not celebrated. That is why Eve subs are stagnant, even falling (which CCP refuses to acknowledge as they won't release full CSM voting data). CCP has captured the full market of sick individuals that think crushing all others makes for great fun. There is not a lot of movement left in that that market segment. But on the other hand, there is large downside on driving people from the game, the ones that like to play a co-operative, or at the very least., a benign game.

As CCP continues down the path that the null sec cartels have laid out for them, CCP will learn that advertising "be the villain " might not be the best marketing strategy, sort of like New Coke was not that great.


I love it when you talk dirty
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#40 - 2014-05-23 13:40:49 UTC
Tippia for CSM 10. A candidate who truly believes in the sandbox.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.