These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Why don't t2 hictor bubbles counter interdiction nullified ships?
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Aerie Evingod
Midwest Miners LLC
#61 - 2014-05-23 00:03:43 UTC
Habris wrote:
Aerie Evingod wrote:
Habris wrote:

To fly an interceptor it takes a mere 47 days from first sub to flying a t2 fit.

To fly a a nullied tengu it takes 99 days from first sub to flying a t2 fit.

To fly a hictor with a t2 bubble its takes a 143 days.

A decent fit hictor is generally over 300m which is on par with a t2 fit tech 3 cruiser. On its own a hictor cannot kill a ceptor unless it can instalock and scram it. Against a t3 unless its DPS fit, which would take away from most hictor tank fits it would be more than a fair fight since they are pretty much stationary. All that said hictors aren't solo, they bring friends.

Discuss.


Following your logic, jump freighter takes longer to get into than an inty and costs more so I should be able to beat an inty witha JF.

Training time and cost is not indicative of it's ability and purpose.



While thats an interesting thought it's not applicable and you know it. A jump freighter is a cargo ship, a hictor is a combat ship designed to stop other ships. I don't think implementing either a specialized t2 rig or a new bubble gen that would create a 15km bubble that only stopped nullied ships isn't game breaking.

.


So a JF can have a role, but a nullified ship can't have a role? Nullified ships roles is that of beating bubbles. A nullified T3 can be caught easy with regular points. A cloaky nullified T3 gimps it's tank and DPS to be cloaky and nullified. Inties can be countered by recon ships with proper support/bait. If your current tools do not work (HIC and bubbles) Isuggest you try new tools.

Alternative Splicing
Captain Content and The Contenteers
#62 - 2014-05-23 00:08:50 UTC
Eh, this would make it far too easy to guard a few choice choke systems and prevent any and all infiltration of a nullsec ratting/industry utopia. Wormholes would still allow access, but those can be dealt with.

I would flip the question here and ask if those ships were not interdiction nullified + (cloak or fast align), how could a small roving gang get behind enemy lines and cause havoc? I understand it's annoying that they are nearly impossible to catch, but on the other hand, if a T2 whatever could change that, it would be nearly impossible to break into blue-sec. It's better to let the attacker have at least one advantage, given the defender can have intel, a response fleet, etc.

This would only make blue-sec even more blue and dull. Letting people kill inattentive ratters or miners and keeping a mote of risk in what is supposed to be hazardous space is a good thing. Nullbears are literally worse than hisec miners half the time.
Habris
State War Academy
Caldari State
#63 - 2014-05-23 00:09:07 UTC
Bohneik Itohn wrote:
Habris wrote:


No, but regardless of whether I was in goons or not no ship should be able to infiltrate space with such impunity. The day I can lock in less than two seconds and that very instant apply a scram i'll stop asking for this. Truth be told I don't like hictors, kinda why I have five of them sitting in a my hangar packaged since late 2008 sometime...


If you have a problem with people entering your space unimpeded you also have a problem with wormholes opening in null sec, cloaks, and basically anyone that plays during your corp's downtime.

It happens. It's not a disadvantage. Learn to use it against people who come to rely on these things and pop them when they get lazy.

If they don't get lazy? Find out where they live and return the favor.


Just to be on record saying so I am perfectly fine with wormholes, cloaks, and pilots that come around when not in the USTZ. However the only way to stem the tide of interceptor fleets is with scrams which are damn impossible to land on insta-warping targets. Add in the warp speed and you have a situation where if you aren't riding lead the view never changes.
Habris
State War Academy
Caldari State
#64 - 2014-05-23 00:16:51 UTC
Alternative Splicing wrote:
Eh, this would make it far too easy to guard a few choice choke systems and prevent any and all infiltration of a nullsec ratting/industry utopia. Wormholes would still allow access, but those can be dealt with.

I would flip the question here and ask if those ships were not interdiction nullified + (cloak or fast align), how could a small roving gang get behind enemy lines and cause havoc? I understand it's annoying that they are nearly impossible to catch, but on the other hand, if a T2 whatever could change that, it would be nearly impossible to break into blue-sec. It's better to let the attacker have at least one advantage, given the defender can have intel, a response fleet, etc.

This would only make blue-sec even more blue and dull. Letting people kill inattentive ratters or miners and keeping a mote of risk in what is supposed to be hazardous space is a good thing. Nullbears are literally worse than hisec miners half the time.



As stated I would LOVE to be able to lock in 1 second and have my pre-activated point enable the instant my lock was established, sadly this isn't the case due to rather crappy programming that is deemed "too time consuming/expensive to fix". That is what I really want. I just want a way for me and 10 of my corp able to engage a fleet of 10-15 interceptors and have an actual chance of kicking their ass. Thats it, a chance. But I expect the sea's to evaporate and the mountains to turn to dust before that issue is addressed and fixed. Hence my request for another mechanic for invader intervention.

A hictor that can throw up a 15km bubble (either with a permanent t2 rig or new mod) that only affects nullified ships doesnt seem breaking, most ceptors would have to burn for about 1 second to escape the bubble or burn back to the gate. Same with t3's , and if its a cloaky t3 it a competent pilot should easily be able to maneuver out of the bubble. Hell I don't care if the bubble only functions as a drag bubble, useless on a gate but rather placed with precision inline with another celestial. There needs to be a counter for interdiction nullification.
Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#65 - 2014-05-23 00:39:23 UTC
Habris wrote:
Alternative Splicing wrote:
Eh, this would make it far too easy to guard a few choice choke systems and prevent any and all infiltration of a nullsec ratting/industry utopia. Wormholes would still allow access, but those can be dealt with.

I would flip the question here and ask if those ships were not interdiction nullified + (cloak or fast align), how could a small roving gang get behind enemy lines and cause havoc? I understand it's annoying that they are nearly impossible to catch, but on the other hand, if a T2 whatever could change that, it would be nearly impossible to break into blue-sec. It's better to let the attacker have at least one advantage, given the defender can have intel, a response fleet, etc.

This would only make blue-sec even more blue and dull. Letting people kill inattentive ratters or miners and keeping a mote of risk in what is supposed to be hazardous space is a good thing. Nullbears are literally worse than hisec miners half the time.



As stated I would LOVE to be able to lock in 1 second and have my pre-activated point enable the instant my lock was established, sadly this isn't the case due to rather crappy programming that is deemed "too time consuming/expensive to fix". That is what I really want. I just want a way for me and 10 of my corp able to engage a fleet of 10-15 interceptors and have an actual chance of kicking their ass. Thats it, a chance. But I expect the sea's to evaporate and the mountains to turn to dust before that issue is addressed and fixed. Hence my request for another mechanic for invader intervention.

A hictor that can throw up a 15km bubble (either with a permanent t2 rig or new mod) that only affects nullified ships doesnt seem breaking, most ceptors would have to burn for about 1 second to escape the bubble or burn back to the gate. Same with t3's , and if its a cloaky t3 it a competent pilot should easily be able to maneuver out of the bubble. Hell I don't care if the bubble only functions as a drag bubble, useless on a gate but rather placed with precision inline with another celestial. There needs to be a counter for interdiction nullification.


your just asking for a counter of a counter because it suits you more, should warp core stabs be removed also?

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Habris
State War Academy
Caldari State
#66 - 2014-05-23 00:45:03 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
Habris wrote:
Alternative Splicing wrote:
Eh, this would make it far too easy to guard a few choice choke systems and prevent any and all infiltration of a nullsec ratting/industry utopia. Wormholes would still allow access, but those can be dealt with.

I would flip the question here and ask if those ships were not interdiction nullified + (cloak or fast align), how could a small roving gang get behind enemy lines and cause havoc? I understand it's annoying that they are nearly impossible to catch, but on the other hand, if a T2 whatever could change that, it would be nearly impossible to break into blue-sec. It's better to let the attacker have at least one advantage, given the defender can have intel, a response fleet, etc.

This would only make blue-sec even more blue and dull. Letting people kill inattentive ratters or miners and keeping a mote of risk in what is supposed to be hazardous space is a good thing. Nullbears are literally worse than hisec miners half the time.



As stated I would LOVE to be able to lock in 1 second and have my pre-activated point enable the instant my lock was established, sadly this isn't the case due to rather crappy programming that is deemed "too time consuming/expensive to fix". That is what I really want. I just want a way for me and 10 of my corp able to engage a fleet of 10-15 interceptors and have an actual chance of kicking their ass. Thats it, a chance. But I expect the sea's to evaporate and the mountains to turn to dust before that issue is addressed and fixed. Hence my request for another mechanic for invader intervention.

A hictor that can throw up a 15km bubble (either with a permanent t2 rig or new mod) that only affects nullified ships doesnt seem breaking, most ceptors would have to burn for about 1 second to escape the bubble or burn back to the gate. Same with t3's , and if its a cloaky t3 it a competent pilot should easily be able to maneuver out of the bubble. Hell I don't care if the bubble only functions as a drag bubble, useless on a gate but rather placed with precision inline with another celestial. There needs to be a counter for interdiction nullification.


your just asking for a counter of a counter because it suits you more, should warp core stabs be removed also?


Currently there are drawbacks on warp core stabs, what are the drawbacks of an insta-warping interceptor that can also travel at around 4500m/s heated?
Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#67 - 2014-05-23 00:49:27 UTC
low dps, hardly any tank, they can still be locked and pointed

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Habris
State War Academy
Caldari State
#68 - 2014-05-23 00:58:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Habris
Lan Wang wrote:
low dps, hardly any tank, they can still be locked and pointed



It's a frigate, those aren't drawkbacks for that class of ship. See previous posts about locking and activating modules on a ship that warps in less than 2 seconds.
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#69 - 2014-05-23 18:58:05 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
Habris wrote:
Raphael Celestine wrote:
Why don't they?

Because the interdiction-nullifier mechanic is specifically intended as a counter to the area-of-effect warp disruption mechanic. If you want to catch a nullified ship, you need to use a targeted warp jammer - that is the whole point of the mechanic.



Ok, I am going to go out on a limb and say the space you live in isn't 0.0, and thus haven't experienced roving gangs of ceptors which traverse your space with relative impunity. Also this game is big on checks and balances, even with the recent changes its still damn near impossible to catch interceptors and cloaky t3's.




It's amazing how frequently someone says something to the effect of, "Abloobloobloo, X counters Y, but I don't like that! Y should counter X, even though X was intentionally conceived as a hard counter to Y!"

Interdiction nullification is a hard counter to bubbles, by design. You're asking for an uncounterable bubble, while complaining that the counter to bubbles isn't counterable by bubbles. It's inherently stupid.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Habris
State War Academy
Caldari State
#70 - 2014-05-23 19:48:57 UTC
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Habris wrote:
Raphael Celestine wrote:
Why don't they?

Because the interdiction-nullifier mechanic is specifically intended as a counter to the area-of-effect warp disruption mechanic. If you want to catch a nullified ship, you need to use a targeted warp jammer - that is the whole point of the mechanic.



Ok, I am going to go out on a limb and say the space you live in isn't 0.0, and thus haven't experienced roving gangs of ceptors which traverse your space with relative impunity. Also this game is big on checks and balances, even with the recent changes its still damn near impossible to catch interceptors and cloaky t3's.




It's amazing how frequently someone says something to the effect of, "Abloobloobloo, X counters Y, but I don't like that! Y should counter X, even though X was intentionally conceived as a hard counter to Y!"

Interdiction nullification is a hard counter to bubbles, by design. You're asking for an uncounterable bubble, while complaining that the counter to bubbles isn't counterable by bubbles. It's inherently stupid.



It seems that way but until the game mechanics of how modules activate, more specifically the latency there of are changed direct interdiction via applying points just isn't viable for defending the space you live in with any real percentage of success.

So yes, I want bubbles to counter the unbubbleablebleble......ble....