These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[Kronos] Pirate Faction Frigates

First post First post First post
Author
Team Amarrica
#1541 - 2014-05-11 03:25:50 UTC
Cruor needs another low. If it had that, and the fittings for a nos-powered dual rep setup....at least it could do something better than the sentinel.
Team Amarrica
#1542 - 2014-05-14 20:47:50 UTC
ccp are you kidding me with the power grid nerf to the cruor?

what is this 2009? we have to run 2 ACR rigs now with the cruor to have a decent fit? what is this amarr ship from 2009?

this is supposed to be a mixed race ship why cant it have the minmatar grid and cpu? you know LARGEST guns largest tank full t2 mids? since it doesnt get anything else minmatar, no speed, no agility, no small sig, no nothing all it gets a crap web bonus and FULLLLLLLL amarr everything else.

Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro

#1543 - 2014-05-16 03:22:14 UTC
the cruor is in many situations worse then then it was before the PG nerf just wrecked its tank which was garbage to begin with and the web nerf lets it get kited by everything with a scram ab or scram web


move one high to a low and increase the neut bonus to compensate also give it back all the fitting it had

Quote CCP Fozzie: ... The days of balance and forget are over.

#1544 - 2014-05-16 21:04:57 UTC
http://i.imgur.com/gp4hxed.png
3 launchers instead of 2 not that I mind at all Big smile

Quote CCP Fozzie: ... The days of balance and forget are over.

Team Amarrica
#1545 - 2014-05-16 21:51:27 UTC
Crazy KSK wrote:
http://i.imgur.com/gp4hxed.png
3 launchers instead of 2 not that I mind at all Big smile

thats destroyer dps. not frigate!

Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro

Shadow Cartel
#1546 - 2014-05-17 05:54:28 UTC
so I tried to fit a dramiel, and the CPU was horrible, but it had loads of spare powergrid. ccp plz fix.
#1547 - 2014-05-17 12:57:57 UTC
Flyinghotpocket wrote:
Crazy KSK wrote:
http://i.imgur.com/gp4hxed.png
3 launchers instead of 2 not that I mind at all Big smile

thats destroyer dps. not frigate!


http://i.imgur.com/IDjZAI2.png

[TEST Worm, New Setup 3]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Medium Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 50
Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I
Warp Disruptor II
[empty med slot]

Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Light Missile
Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Light Missile
Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Light Missile

Small Processor Overclocking Unit I
Small Processor Overclocking Unit I
Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I

'Augmented' Hobgoblin x2
'Augmented' Hobgoblin x3


needs geno 1 or EE-602 +2% cpu
not very viable this fit
the drones also cost 15mil each on tq with t2 hobs its 328dps

Quote CCP Fozzie: ... The days of balance and forget are over.

Shadow Cartel
#1548 - 2014-05-17 15:30:45 UTC
oh boy look at all these shitfits
Team Amarrica
#1549 - 2014-05-18 02:39:44 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
oh boy look at all these shitfits


On par with your cats and comets with no points.
Shadow Cartel
#1550 - 2014-05-18 08:39:05 UTC
Templar Dane wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
oh boy look at all these shitfits


On par with your cats and comets with no points.


keep on blobbing bro
Team Amarrica
#1551 - 2014-05-18 18:42:37 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Templar Dane wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
oh boy look at all these shitfits


On par with your cats and comets with no points.


keep on blobbing bro

Gee, as a vet you would think that you knew the definition of a blob. guess not

Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro

Amarr Empire
#1552 - 2014-05-18 23:50:12 UTC
i really dont see a single reason to take cruor over a sentinel, not to mention it will be x2/x3 more expensive.
The pg nerf + only 3 mid/low slot lodout is making it a horrible ship to fit, get a decent tank , not to mention it dps.
I Maybe would fly it if he will get an additional mid or low slot, plus maybe bit more PG.

Atm i will take 30 km neut range of sentinel any day over cuor (with 3 neuts you are going to cap dry a frigate target in 1/2 cycles, shuting down its prop mod = better speed reduce than the cruors single web) + i have t2 resists , a bonused td , less dps but i have an abiliti to have 4 ecm drones in my bay . And alot of isk saved
Heiian Conglomerate
#1553 - 2014-05-19 01:05:45 UTC
Buckethead bot wrote:
i really dont see a single reason to take cruor over a sentinel, not to mention it will be x2/x3 more expensive.
The pg nerf + only 3 mid/low slot lodout is making it a horrible ship to fit, get a decent tank , not to mention it dps.
I Maybe would fly it if he will get an additional mid or low slot, plus maybe bit more PG.

Atm i will take 30 km neut range of sentinel any day over cuor (with 3 neuts you are going to cap dry a frigate target in 1/2 cycles, shuting down its prop mod = better speed reduce than the cruors single web) + i have t2 resists , a bonused td , less dps but i have an abiliti to have 4 ecm drones in my bay . And alot of isk saved


Yeah, the proposed web bonus on the Cruor only 'helps' it get 'close' (AKA 13-11km) to use shorter ranged neuts, which is a fancy way of saying that the Cruor has to use more slots, put itself in greater danger, and for what? Either marginally higher DPS or almost no DPS and marginally better neuting... but not enough to make it worth being close ranged.

I think it is odd that the Cruor gets a lot of stats that make it look just like a tackle frigate, like decently low sig (nothing to truly write home about, but it's not too shabby), the BEST lock time of a combat frigate (953 with max skills, compared to 775 of Kestrel or 1100 of Taranis) 4/3/3 utility high slot setup, low tank, and ship bonuses to tackle module -webs for the Blood Raiders- but it lacks two things to fulfill this role (besides being expensive):

Agility/Speed. Cruor lacks a lot of speed, and a bit of agility. If you'd just hand it 375m/s base speed (Fed Navy Comet) then the Daredevil and Dram would be faster as well as more agile, but the Cruor would have 20km web to abuse and utility neuts. To improve the agility, I would adjust the mass/inertia modifiers to make it so that plates don't weigh it a whole lot [GIVE IT BACK THE POWERGRID!] to make plate and active tank both viable choices with clear advantages.

Other good changes would involve buffing scan resolution so it locks more like a Taranis (the slowest locking inty in game). It's also nearly impossible to shoot drones without using metastasis rigs on Gatling Pulse if you don't swap your web onto the drone once your MWD is off so perhaps a role bonus to tracking would help it here. Or better drones (15mb/25m3 kinda deal)

Not saying that these suggestions are THE BEST EVAR GUYZ... but it makes sense that the Cruor would be a tackle frigate. I mean, Blood Raiders need fast tacklers too, right?

As for use as a solopwnmobile - buffing speed/agility makes it easier to use against potential kiters, and more tracking/drone power helps a little bit, too. Not a whole lot in that direction.

Arma Purgatorium - Once for the State, Now for the King Low Sec, PvP, Industrial - Open for Recruiting http://armapurgatorium.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/arpur_recruit1.png 

Team Amarrica
#1554 - 2014-05-19 03:45:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Templar Dane
Sheimi Madaveda wrote:


Yeah, the proposed web bonus on the Cruor only 'helps' it get 'close' (AKA 13-11km) to use shorter ranged neuts, which is a fancy way of saying that the Cruor has to use more slots, put itself in greater danger, and for what? Either marginally higher DPS or almost no DPS and marginally better neuting... but not enough to make it worth being close ranged.

I think it is odd that the Cruor gets a lot of stats that make it look just like a tackle frigate, like decently low sig (nothing to truly write home about, but it's not too shabby), the BEST lock time of a combat frigate (953 with max skills, compared to 775 of Kestrel or 1100 of Taranis) 4/3/3 utility high slot setup, low tank, and ship bonuses to tackle module -webs for the Blood Raiders- but it lacks two things to fulfill this role (besides being expensive):

Agility/Speed. Cruor lacks a lot of speed, and a bit of agility. If you'd just hand it 375m/s base speed (Fed Navy Comet) then the Daredevil and Dram would be faster as well as more agile, but the Cruor would have 20km web to abuse and utility neuts. To improve the agility, I would adjust the mass/inertia modifiers to make it so that plates don't weigh it a whole lot [GIVE IT BACK THE POWERGRID!] to make plate and active tank both viable choices with clear advantages.

Other good changes would involve buffing scan resolution so it locks more like a Taranis (the slowest locking inty in game). It's also nearly impossible to shoot drones without using metastasis rigs on Gatling Pulse if you don't swap your web onto the drone once your MWD is off so perhaps a role bonus to tracking would help it here. Or better drones (15mb/25m3 kinda deal)

Not saying that these suggestions are THE BEST EVAR GUYZ... but it makes sense that the Cruor would be a tackle frigate. I mean, Blood Raiders need fast tacklers too, right?

As for use as a solopwnmobile - buffing speed/agility makes it easier to use against potential kiters, and more tracking/drone power helps a little bit, too. Not a whole lot in that direction.


It it was beefy and could rely on nos to power a dual rep setup, I could see it doing well as a solo ship.

Double the neut/nos bonus and remove a high to a low, and THEN there's some things you can do with it. PG won't be as much of an issue if you only have one nos/neut to fit.

edit

It wouldn't be completely overpowered with the suggestions I made. The cap would be extremely fragile, and the dps wouldn't be stellar. Things like asb ships with capless weapons would give it pretty big problems.
Heiian Conglomerate
#1555 - 2014-05-19 04:23:47 UTC
Templar Dane wrote:

It it was beefy and could rely on nos to power a dual rep setup, I could see it doing well as a solo ship.

Double the neut/nos bonus and remove a high to a low, and THEN there's some things you can do with it. PG won't be as much of an issue if you only have one nos/neut to fit.

edit

It wouldn't be completely overpowered with the suggestions I made. The cap would be extremely fragile, and the dps wouldn't be stellar. Things like asb ships with capless weapons would give it pretty big problems.


Hmmm, I think I like that sort of change a lot. I have always been wanting that fourth low slot, and if you look at that change for pure neut style Cruor, it makes the ship nearly self sufficient as the Nos provides enough cap to run the neuts for a very long time, while lending it a greater tank. For solo Cruor, the nos would hit like a neut... Not particularly stellar but tbh the fact that it gives you capacitor back makes it all worthwhile.

Arma Purgatorium - Once for the State, Now for the King Low Sec, PvP, Industrial - Open for Recruiting http://armapurgatorium.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/arpur_recruit1.png 

Team Amarrica
#1556 - 2014-05-19 06:25:19 UTC
Sheimi Madaveda wrote:
Templar Dane wrote:

It it was beefy and could rely on nos to power a dual rep setup, I could see it doing well as a solo ship.

Double the neut/nos bonus and remove a high to a low, and THEN there's some things you can do with it. PG won't be as much of an issue if you only have one nos/neut to fit.

edit

It wouldn't be completely overpowered with the suggestions I made. The cap would be extremely fragile, and the dps wouldn't be stellar. Things like asb ships with capless weapons would give it pretty big problems.


Hmmm, I think I like that sort of change a lot. I have always been wanting that fourth low slot, and if you look at that change for pure neut style Cruor, it makes the ship nearly self sufficient as the Nos provides enough cap to run the neuts for a very long time, while lending it a greater tank. For solo Cruor, the nos would hit like a neut... Not particularly stellar but tbh the fact that it gives you capacitor back makes it all worthwhile.

the pure neut cruor works fine as is. the new cruor with pure neut wont neut anything because it doesnt have 90% webs. simple.

you would have to have 2 nos's to run the 2 neuts the ab the scram the web 1 nos wouldnt do it. so it wouldnt be a pure neut cruor at all.

Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro

#1557 - 2014-05-19 12:34:39 UTC
Flyinghotpocket wrote:

the pure neut cruor works fine as is. the new cruor with pure neut wont neut anything because it doesnt have 90% webs. simple.

you would have to have 2 nos's to run the 2 neuts the ab the scram the web 1 nos wouldnt do it. so it wouldnt be a pure neut cruor at all.


the idea is to increase the neut/nos bonus to compensate for the moved high which would give it a 50% per lvl bonus
but even with that change and with its old power grid back I can't see the cruor match up to the other pirate frigates/sentinel in power just because its power is so very situational and it is mandatory to use A-type nos on it

I think it should absolutely get a 75% nos/neut range role bonus

Quote CCP Fozzie: ... The days of balance and forget are over.

Amarr Empire
#1558 - 2014-05-19 21:21:46 UTC
Crazy KSK wrote:
Flyinghotpocket wrote:

the pure neut cruor works fine as is. the new cruor with pure neut wont neut anything because it doesnt have 90% webs. simple.

you would have to have 2 nos's to run the 2 neuts the ab the scram the web 1 nos wouldnt do it. so it wouldnt be a pure neut cruor at all.


the idea is to increase the neut/nos bonus to compensate for the moved high which would give it a 50% per lvl bonus
but even with that change and with its old power grid back I can't see the cruor match up to the other pirate frigates/sentinel in power just because its power is so very situational and it is mandatory to use A-type nos on it

I think it should absolutely get a 75% nos/neut range role bonus


To keep it distinct from the curse and more so, true to the blood raider line and the new nos buff, it could just be a range bonus on nos range and effectiveness.

60% range per level on cruor
20% range per level on ashimmu
No range bonus on bhaalgorn, since heavy nos range is fine.


C C P Alliance
#1559 - 2014-05-20 13:51:41 UTC
Hey guys

Getting caught up on some feedback here finally and working on the Cruor a bit as a result.

What I'd really like to do is get the Cruor into a place where it can keep the Blood bonus layout and still be powerful enough to see battle. The request that's been made several times for an extra low makes a lot of sense but I really didn't think it could afford to give up a high (1 turret? only 1 utility high?) or a mid (web bonus) so I was a bit stuck and then I realized there's no reason it can't have 11 slots, so that's what I'm going to do.

We're also going to up the base PG from 50 to 57 and the base CPU from 140 to 150. Finally, to pay a little back for these improvements we're taking one drone away (from 10m3 to 5m3).

Hopefully all in all this gives enough flexibility in fitting to let you take advantage of the slightly divergent bonuses and that lets us keep the faction line in tact and leave the Cruor as a very unique ship in the frigate class rather than forcing it to compete directly with the Sentinel.

Let me know what you think.

@ccp_rise

Shadow Cartel
#1560 - 2014-05-20 14:02:03 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Hey guys

Getting caught up on some feedback here finally and working on the Cruor a bit as a result.

What I'd really like to do is get the Cruor into a place where it can keep the Blood bonus layout and still be powerful enough to see battle. The request that's been made several times for an extra low makes a lot of sense but I really didn't think it could afford to give up a high (1 turret? only 1 utility high?) or a mid (web bonus) so I was a bit stuck and then I realized there's no reason it can't have 11 slots, so that's what I'm going to do.

We're also going to up the base PG from 50 to 57 and the base CPU from 140 to 150. Finally, to pay a little back for these improvements we're taking one drone away (from 10m3 to 5m3).

Hopefully all in all this gives enough flexibility in fitting to let you take advantage of the slightly divergent bonuses and that lets us keep the faction line in tact and leave the Cruor as a very unique ship in the frigate class rather than forcing it to compete directly with the Sentinel.

Let me know what you think.


I think just drop the webbing thing and drop the midslots down to 2, give it tank bonus and more lows. that makes a much more generally usable ship. 3 lows and no tank bonus is extremely limiting. add the ridiculously powerful web bonus, and you're primary forever in all frig gangs ever. less 'glass cannon', more versatile. I think lasers and neuts/nos is enough flavour for one line of ships, they don't need the web thing as well.
Forum Jump