These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Why Eve isn't more popular?

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Maldam
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#421 - 2014-05-20 11:46:10 UTC
WOW went to one extreme to attract and keep new players by choosing to dumb the game down, by instituting repetitive dailies and by ski-lifting everyone up to the same level of gear and achievements periodically. Caused mass exodus of loyal veterans, and made the game a comic book childish game.

That is one extreme.

EO seems to think remaking its tutorials is going to make a huge difference to new players, but all it is going to do is waste its time and resources. The real problem is that it has created a massively complicated game, wherein veterans have all the advantages, and a good many of them get their fun from ruining the game for the new players, who are at extreme disadvantages. EO as it currently is requires too much of new players for too long for them to become veteran players.

This is the other extreme.

Ghostcrawler refused to listen to any criticism at WOW that conflicted with his grand plan.

Will EO ever accept that the way things are now, new players have to be masochists to want to start and remain though all the time and effort it takes to be able to really compete, including more spreadsheets and formulas, etc., than college level engineering.

You heard it here: REDOING THE TUTORIALS IS NOT GOING TO MAKE ENOUGH OF A DIFFERENCE TO REMOTELY JUSTIFY THE TIME AND RESOURCES EXPENDED.

Somehow, someway, new players need to be able to get up to speed much faster, while being afforded more protection while they learn. The cost is reducing the amount of ezmode fodder for veterans to exploit, and the gain will be more players who stay, because they actually do have a reasonable fair chance before they see the wolves set free on them.

Not sure why I took the time to lay this out, I already paid the price required for this game, I do not get any of the profits and no doubt I will be personally attacked for having dared to endanger the source of easy mode prey for soured old veterans, but I think this is the gist of the issue.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#422 - 2014-05-20 11:49:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Ramona McCandless
Shari Evan wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:

TL;DR Answer

New "gamer" - is lazy and stupid.

Solution

New "gamers" are a cancer


The only cancer i see is your attitude.


No, my attitude is a panacea

If you like CODKids and WoWheads so much, I suggest you spend some time in their presence and tell me if you still think they are what EvE needs

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#423 - 2014-05-20 11:52:57 UTC
Maldam wrote:

Somehow, someway, new players need to be able to get up to speed much faster, while being afforded more protection while they learn.


Yes, its called a sponsor or a half decent CEO, though protection is arguable.

Maldam wrote:
The cost is reducing the amount of ezmode fodder for veterans to exploit, and the gain will be more players who stay, because they actually do have a reasonable fair chance before they see the wolves set free on them.

Not sure why I took the time to lay this out, I already paid the price required for this game, I do not get any of the profits and no doubt I will be personally attacked for having dared to endanger the source of easy mode prey for soured old veterans, but I think this is the gist of the issue.


Your prejudice betrays your true feelings Lord Darth

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Shari Evan
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#424 - 2014-05-20 12:00:06 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Shari Evan wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:

TL;DR Answer

New "gamer" - is lazy and stupid.

Solution

New "gamers" are a cancer


The only cancer i see is your attitude.


No, my attitude is a panacea

If you like CODKids and WoWheads so much, I suggest you spend some time in their presence and tell me if you still think they are what EvE needs


Sure, i like more players to play EVE. The Community of EVE is at best on the same level of WoW and COD - you're the prove for that. New player will sooner or later provide assets to the game, even if its only some killmails. If you don't want new players in your game - Play solo-player games.
Riyria Twinpeaks
Perkone
Caldari State
#425 - 2014-05-20 12:07:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Riyria Twinpeaks
Maldam wrote:
[... newbies being at a huge disadvantage ...]


Being kinda new myself, I don't feel that disadvantaged, and never have in a way I found injust or fun-diminishing.
Sure, I can't do as much as those with more SP can do. But that's sorta expected, I think. And what I can do continues to become more and more.
By now I already have at least basic skills for enough ships and roles that I didn't even get to fly all of them so far.

And aside from that, I'm just having fun in the game.
Sure, I'm leaning on my corp and alliance mates, be it the experience and skills they have to allow some of the things our alliance does, or on the numbers.
Still having fun, though.

And before I joined them, I tried, without much success, to dabble in trading stuff in lowsec. Lots of running away from other players and sometimes getting killed, but still fun, despite it not making me terribly rich right away, though I did make some profit.
Fun > profit anyway.

Edit: I forgot to mention my conclusion:
Newbies can have fun, too, as things are right now.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#426 - 2014-05-20 12:07:28 UTC
Shari Evan wrote:

Sure, i like more players to play EVE. The Community of EVE is at best on the same level of WoW and COD - you're the prove for that. New player will sooner or later provide assets to the game, even if its only some killmails. If you don't want new players in your game - Play solo-player games.


Ok, as you have no idea what Im talking about and clearly just want to launch personal attacks because you have nothing else Ill just leave you to your League of Legends tourney or whatever it is you are actually doing

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Shari Evan
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#427 - 2014-05-20 12:16:37 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Shari Evan wrote:

Sure, i like more players to play EVE. The Community of EVE is at best on the same level of WoW and COD - you're the prove for that. New player will sooner or later provide assets to the game, even if its only some killmails. If you don't want new players in your game - Play solo-player games.


Ok, as you have no idea what Im talking about and clearly just want to launch personal attacks because you have nothing else Ill just leave you to your League of Legends tourney or whatever it is you are actually doing


Why am i attacking you? The only attack i see is the LoL thingy. Well, Still new gamers worth more than bitter vets.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#428 - 2014-05-20 12:20:43 UTC
Shari Evan wrote:

Why am i attacking you?

Probably because I don't agree that this game changing to accomodate lazy, weakminded fools is a good thing

Shari Evan wrote:
new gamers worth more than bitter vets.


If by bitter vet you mean someone who can take initiative, think on their feet, isnt scared of new things and learning, doesnt want "Press A to Live" style missions/gameplay/scripting and is happy to help newcomers learn about the game

and

If by new gamers you mean idiots who are the opposite of the above

then I respectfully suggest that you dont know what you are talking about

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Priestess Lin
Darkfall Corp
#429 - 2014-05-20 12:22:58 UTC
Eve is full of degenerates who have gotten **** on in more skill demanding games where you are required to aim or utilize terrain. They love the easymode pvp and griefing without having to risk much themselves.

When discussing weaknesses of heavy drones vs fast frigates: baltec1- " A thanatos with a flight of geckos killed a bomber gang while AFK. So yea, they track frigates just fine." https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4678049#post4678049
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#430 - 2014-05-20 12:23:23 UTC
As I said before, people tend to look at these things backwards. "WoW has all these subs and EVE is small!" and some such.

Well, all of Wolfgang Puck's quality restaurants combined wouldn't amount to a flea in the fur of McDonald's, the $27.5 BILLION behemoth of the food industry. but which has better food and a higher class of customer?

Every time i see people talking about how they want more people in EVE I say to my self "so here is another guy who wants to turn Spago into a fast food joint".

No thanks.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#431 - 2014-05-20 12:23:48 UTC
Priestess Lin wrote:
skill demanding games where you are required to aim or utilize terrain.


Please cite these games where hiding behind a box requires skill

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Shari Evan
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#432 - 2014-05-20 12:29:19 UTC
Your assumtion that every new player is a casual gamer with no interest for a deep dive into mechanics is just
plain borderline. And, if it comes to CCP - they want new players. Period. You can rumble around that you don't like
new players, there will be new players, if you like it or not.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#433 - 2014-05-20 12:33:16 UTC
Shari Evan wrote:
Your assumtion that every new player is a casual gamer with no interest for a deep dive into mechanics is just plain borderline.


Who said anything like this? New players are great, as long as they are EVE material .

Most people aren't, so it's ok that they don't stay.



Quote:

And, if it comes to CCP - they want new players. Period. You can rumble around that you don't like
new players, there will be new players, if you like it or not.


If CCP wanted as many new players as a game like Wow, they'd have made a Wow clone. They made a quality niche game that they have kept niche that is still profitable. This is what they should keep doing.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#434 - 2014-05-20 12:35:41 UTC
Shari Evan wrote:
Your assumtion that every new player is a casual gamer with no interest for a deep dive into mechanics is just
plain borderline.


That is not what I said

But equally your claim to the opposite is also "borderline"

Borderline-what, by the way?

Borderline a lie perhaps?

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#435 - 2014-05-20 12:36:27 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Shari Evan wrote:
Your assumtion that every new player is a casual gamer with no interest for a deep dive into mechanics is just plain borderline.


Who said anything like this? New players are great, as long as they are EVE material .

Most people aren't, so it's ok that they don't stay.

Quote:

And, if it comes to CCP - they want new players. Period. You can rumble around that you don't like
new players, there will be new players, if you like it or not.


If CCP wanted as many new players as a game like Wow, they'd have made a Wow clone. They made a quality niche game that they have kept niche that is still profitable. This is what they should keep doing.


This is EXACTLY what Im trying to tell you Shari

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Shari Evan
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#436 - 2014-05-20 12:36:39 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Shari Evan wrote:
Your assumtion that every new player is a casual gamer with no interest for a deep dive into mechanics is just
plain borderline.


That is not what I said

But equally your claim to the opposite is also "borderline"

Borderline-what, by the way?

Borderline a lie perhaps?

the personality disorder.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#437 - 2014-05-20 12:38:32 UTC
Shari Evan wrote:

the personality disorder.


Oh I see

You have something against people with mental health issues

How enlightened of you

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Priestess Lin
Darkfall Corp
#438 - 2014-05-20 12:58:52 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Priestess Lin wrote:
skill demanding games where you are required to aim or utilize terrain.


Please cite these games where hiding behind a box requires skill


HAHA! nice oversimplification.

One i played today is World of Tanks

Easy.

When discussing weaknesses of heavy drones vs fast frigates: baltec1- " A thanatos with a flight of geckos killed a bomber gang while AFK. So yea, they track frigates just fine." https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4678049#post4678049
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#439 - 2014-05-20 13:08:40 UTC
Priestess Lin wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Priestess Lin wrote:
skill demanding games where you are required to aim or utilize terrain.

Please cite these games where hiding behind a box requires skill

HAHA! nice oversimplification.
One i played today is World of Tanks
Easy.


I play world of tanks too

Knowing about armour physics is as important as knowing terrain, and knowing the maps is also important

But I wouldnt say it takes more skill than EvE does. At least not in regards PvP. EvE has of course lots of non-PvP specific complexity of its own.

Plus, its a poor example for comparing player retention as it has a pretty steep dificulty curve.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#440 - 2014-05-20 13:10:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Priestess Lin wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Priestess Lin wrote:
skill demanding games where you are required to aim or utilize terrain.


Please cite these games where hiding behind a box requires skill


HAHA! nice oversimplification.

One i played today is World of Tanks

Easy.
A sizable percentage of Eve players successfully play World of Tanks, and many other games that require the use of terrain and aim thus rendering your "no skill" argument invalid.

I suggest you check yourself before you wreck yourself

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack