These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Warfare & Tactics

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

why are people saying Fraction warfare is broken?

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Rahelis
Doomheim
#161 - 2014-05-18 13:28:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Rahelis
Docking denial does not work as long as you can leave milita within a click.

Remember the bosboger campaign?

FW space is a concord created arena theatre - not a war zone.

Make only the controlling milita be able to dock . Pirates would need to roam and live in non fw low sec.

Logistics would be harder. Switching a system would matter - because when you asset get locked in you have an incentive to get the system back.

And enemy milita should not be able to dock in high sec - it makes no sense to let the emeny not dock in fw low - but in 1.0 high.

it would be fun to be able to dock in the ihub too and be able to increase its defences with LP.

There are so many ways to create content in fw.

FW would thrive if there would be some more militant thinking in it.
ValentinaDLM
SoE Roughriders
Electus Matari
#162 - 2014-05-18 14:33:58 UTC
If you deny me the ability to dock as a neutral I am just going to out up a POS, it won't force me to live outside of FW. If you make it were only militias can put up control towers I will just get a milita alt to put it up and give me the password.

It isn't really practical nor desirable to insulate all of FW from the rest of eve.
Miriya Zakalwe
World Wide Welp
#163 - 2014-05-19 00:08:28 UTC
ValentinaDLM wrote:
If you deny me the ability to dock as a neutral I am just going to out up a POS, it won't force me to live outside of FW. If you make it were only militias can put up control towers I will just get a milita alt to put it up and give me the password.

It isn't really practical nor desirable to insulate all of FW from the rest of eve.


Yup, many if not most of the pirate corps have at least one POS/SMA up already anyway.
Baron' Soontir Fel
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#164 - 2014-05-19 03:47:26 UTC
Rahelis wrote:
Docking denial does not work as long as you can leave milita within a click.

.


same concept as the war dec system. You can't force somebody to play a certain style.


Also locking neutrals out of FW stations is a bad idea as it'll drive the pirates and neutrals away from the area which decreases PvP.
Rahelis
Doomheim
#165 - 2014-05-19 09:11:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Rahelis
Oki - let us look at the facts:

We have 3294 null sec systems in eve - most are deserted, noone lives there and it is useless to go there because the lack of content. Null bear space is the most safe space in the game, because noone wants to go there. Null sec is risk averse, quite astonishing in a game that wants to centered about risk. Null sec ts dead because of two major ccp fauls: Titan bridge and jump freighter.

We have 1212 high sec systems in eve - about 90% of capsuleers live there and nearly all industry is done there. Most ppl that think they are "PVP" guys but do nothing but high sec wars and high sec ganking - this has only very small pvp content and is wanking in its core (ganking = gang wanking). So high sec is much more dangerous than null sec - due to ccp failing to create working game mechanics. High sec "pvp" is risk averse.

We have 2497 wh systems in eve - those are totally deserted, but a small part of capsuleers about 1-2% live or migrates there - which is a fault of ccp beause they simply forgot not make anchoring posses in whs not possilble. Wh space "living" is only possible due to the cloaking device - so "PVP" in wh space is mostly ganking, risk averse combat.

We have 695 low sec systems in eve, about 10% of capsuleers live or roam here. Low sec is quite deserted, but not to an extent like null sec or wh sec.

Nor we have the under 200 systems of FW low sec. Amarr/ Minmatar has 70 system, Caldari/ Gallente has over a 100 systems. These are the most dangerous systems in the game and thus create the biggest part of the pvp content in eve. Nealy all pvp in eve in done here - aside f1 nullbear isk killing. So about one third of eve low sec is about PVP. The other two thirds are a wastland in constant dormancy because there is no reason to live there.

Most activity in fw low sec is about a pve core with a pvp factor in it - that even new capsuleers can endavor - this is unique in eve.

CCP brillant security system is one of the biggest Inhibitors to pvp in low sec - it should be canceled, like in null sec and wh space. The best thing about wh space in the absence of local - remove local in low sec and null sec!!!!!! The D-scan we have today was only meant as an substitute for real scanning system ccp wanted to provide - but failed 11 years to do so.

The other 6000 eve systems are all about pve and are risk averse pvp free wastelands.

- Priates that put up POSs (be it themselves or FW alts) are easy to dismantle - we did that regulary in cal mil. Simply war dec the genius pirates the use fw alts for anchoring a pos. But I would like priate pos's in fw spave, it would but pirates at risk there.

-Pirates do not provide pvp content in fw - the mostly gank and are generally risk averse. Deny the pirates docking rights in fw space would force them to roam - what pirates mostly are afraid about because it involves risk when moving through gate. That is why we see FW low sec systems inhabitated by pirates that mosty never leave the system.

-Those ppl that provide most of the pvp content in eve - the fw guys - are those that are hit hardest by docking denial. This is ccp failing again with game mechanics.

- - - So remove docking denial or make all non-milita capsuleers non-docking - that would make fw low sec more warlike.

Make jump bridges only work in null sec - then all null bears could boar themselves to death in their f1 battles.

Jump freighters should not be able to jump form or to high or low sec. Null bears use freigthers in high sec and have their jump freigthers in low sec, so they do not have to take the risk of jumping from null to null sec - which ts total risk averse. Low sec is still empire space, so the empires should rule them!
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#166 - 2014-05-19 15:08:21 UTC
The only part of Rahelis' idea I agree with is denying Caldari and Amarr militia from docking in Gallente And Minmatar FW stations, and vice versa. I have always found it quite stupid that someone in SPROT could dock in a highsec FDU station. It's like allowing North Korean military the ability to park in the Pentagon.
Veskrashen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#167 - 2014-05-19 16:15:11 UTC
Estella Osoka wrote:
The only part of Rahelis' idea I agree with is denying Caldari and Amarr militia from docking in Gallente And Minmatar FW stations, and vice versa. I have always found it quite stupid that someone in SPROT could dock in a highsec FDU station. It's like allowing North Korean military the ability to park in the Pentagon.

Extend this a bit - forbid docking in high sec stations of opposing factions. Wouldn't THAT be interesting? Especially since they're technically at war with those factions, after all...

We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."
Beardon
CRIME CRIME
#168 - 2014-05-19 20:30:26 UTC
Flyinghotpocket wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:


Also, if you want a bc roam just form one, theres noting stopping you.

And t1 logi is fine, if you want a fight just make sure you dont bring more logi than your target has ships. Pretty obvious stuff.

There is no reason to undock a bc ever. the last time we did a bc roam a cyno appeared. and the one before that and the one before that and the one before that. Or an equal size gang came at us in battleships and marauders. THERE IS NO REASON TO UNDOCK A BC EVER IN FW. Not when there is a bridge waiting for you in EVERY SYSTEM.

thx for the words of wisdom on 'how to get a fight 101' ill remember it next time im fc'ing


I swear, reading threads like this makes me wonder if I'm actually in FW; if you're giving an accurate account of events in the other WZ, then that's a pretty awful state of affairs, but it's so far removed from my own experience that I have some trouble believing it. We've done more than a handful of BC fleets in recent times and the majority of them were successful. Sometimes you gotta deal with a bunch of waffles dropping on you, but that's just a fact of life round here. They tend to bring the good fight, not just blobs so it's not even a bad experience when they show up in a Talos fleet; good times are had by all!. As far as bridging goes, that's a rarity in our neck of the woods. Cynos pop up from time to time, but not to a sufficient degree to make BC fleets seem awful as a rule of thumb. There certainly isn't a bridge waiting for us in every system....

I dunno if this is a case of unique experience on my part, or if it's just a difference in warzones, or if maybe your experience is unique (from what I can tell though you've been around the block a few times, so I doubt this one is the case). From what I can tell though, the amarr / minnie habitat seems pretty craptacular compared to cal / gal. We at least don't live in perpetual fear of fleets bridging on us.
Flyinghotpocket
Small Focused Memes
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#169 - 2014-05-19 23:31:59 UTC
Beardon wrote:


I swear, reading threads like this makes me wonder if I'm actually in FW; if you're giving an accurate account of events in the other WZ, then that's a pretty awful state of affairs, but it's so far removed from my own experience that I have some trouble believing it. We've done more than a handful of BC fleets in recent times and the majority of them were successful. Sometimes you gotta deal with a bunch of waffles dropping on you, but that's just a fact of life round here. They tend to bring the good fight, not just blobs so it's not even a bad experience when they show up in a Talos fleet; good times are had by all!. As far as bridging goes, that's a rarity in our neck of the woods. Cynos pop up from time to time, but not to a sufficient degree to make BC fleets seem awful as a rule of thumb. There certainly isn't a bridge waiting for us in every system....

I dunno if this is a case of unique experience on my part, or if it's just a difference in warzones, or if maybe your experience is unique (from what I can tell though you've been around the block a few times, so I doubt this one is the case). From what I can tell though, the amarr / minnie habitat seems pretty craptacular compared to cal / gal. We at least don't live in perpetual fear of fleets bridging on us.

I have explained this on this thread or another but i will do it one more time.

the reason why there is cynos and bridges in the majority of our warzone is because our regions are so jam packed you can jump anything to the other end of the warzone since there are so few lighter years between our systems. it is incredibly easy to prop up a titan in the middle system's and wala you can bridge anywhere in the fw warzone.

all the pirates have to do is keep and alt in each major home system and await for big ships to undock. and since well, we have moved every minmatar into 1 system there are a dominance of alts in the amarr homesystems (and the one minmatar system).

i no in caldari area the warzone has tons of light years to travel and that is probably the biggest reason you guys can get away with capital warfare in some cases and undocking big stuff to not immediately be bridged on.

Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro
Miriya Zakalwe
World Wide Welp
#170 - 2014-05-20 01:07:35 UTC
Flyinghotpocket wrote:
Beardon wrote:


I swear, reading threads like this makes me wonder if I'm actually in FW; if you're giving an accurate account of events in the other WZ, then that's a pretty awful state of affairs, but it's so far removed from my own experience that I have some trouble believing it. We've done more than a handful of BC fleets in recent times and the majority of them were successful. Sometimes you gotta deal with a bunch of waffles dropping on you, but that's just a fact of life round here. They tend to bring the good fight, not just blobs so it's not even a bad experience when they show up in a Talos fleet; good times are had by all!. As far as bridging goes, that's a rarity in our neck of the woods. Cynos pop up from time to time, but not to a sufficient degree to make BC fleets seem awful as a rule of thumb. There certainly isn't a bridge waiting for us in every system....

I dunno if this is a case of unique experience on my part, or if it's just a difference in warzones, or if maybe your experience is unique (from what I can tell though you've been around the block a few times, so I doubt this one is the case). From what I can tell though, the amarr / minnie habitat seems pretty craptacular compared to cal / gal. We at least don't live in perpetual fear of fleets bridging on us.

I have explained this on this thread or another but i will do it one more time.

the reason why there is cynos and bridges in the majority of our warzone is because our regions are so jam packed you can jump anything to the other end of the warzone since there are so few lighter years between our systems. it is incredibly easy to prop up a titan in the middle system's and wala you can bridge anywhere in the fw warzone.

all the pirates have to do is keep and alt in each major home system and await for big ships to undock. and since well, we have moved every minmatar into 1 system there are a dominance of alts in the amarr homesystems (and the one minmatar system).

i no in caldari area the warzone has tons of light years to travel and that is probably the biggest reason you guys can get away with capital warfare in some cases and undocking big stuff to not immediately be bridged on.


I think this is a little dated (current status is Minmatar Tier 4/Amarr tier 1) and not an entirely accurate summation (the main reason is probably that some large pirate alliances simply make a lowsec home in the central systems around Amamake; PL probably being the most famous but also some notable others, and lots of smaller ones that can still field a cap ship occasionally). Also, more often it's probably just a carrier or cap dropping in, not a titan bridge. And they sometimes drop in on other pirates too, which we find very amusing. That's a KM you want to be on the receiving end of.

Meanwhile, you kind of have a mainstay of the militia folks that have been around forever, some of them getting really skilled at small fleets. There's still plenty of people there I was fighting back when I was in the minnie militia myself. Others have gone pirate like me. It's still a very active area though.

The meta changes a lot. It's trended blobby and linky. Last month it was all about douchey Griffin warpins. So it goes. Still, there's solo fights to be had. It's not dead, but you definitely have to look for it more.

My KB is terribad largely from a series of constant blobbing (and subsequent YOLOs by me, truth be told). You kind of have to stop caring about that, or stick to small gangs and pay it back if it matters to you. That's kind of how it has always been, just maybe a little worse lately.
Baron' Soontir Fel
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#171 - 2014-05-20 01:15:41 UTC
The addition of large plexes to the FW routine will make BCs (and above) fights more attractive.
Flyinghotpocket
Small Focused Memes
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#172 - 2014-05-20 02:50:23 UTC
Miriya Zakalwe wrote:


words

Well, your wrong.

Baron' Soontir Fel wrote:
The addition of large plexes to the FW routine will make BCs (and above) fights more attractive.


Bc's are still useless as it is unrestricted. still zero point in using a tier 1 tier 2 or any commandship in these new larges. with the new MEDIUM micro jump drive you should just repackage your battleships now as the TRUE AGE of attack battlecruisers is about to begin.

and the very thing that these short range bc's depend on. warping to zero on something is not in this unrestricted which is warping into a gated plex.

larges will be dominated by kiting ****** gangs and after a month everybody will soon see the stale combat of getting kited and never undock any of the bc's or cs (except tier 3) again.

Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro
Baron' Soontir Fel
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#173 - 2014-05-20 04:46:22 UTC
Flyinghotpocket wrote:
Miriya Zakalwe wrote:


words

Well, your wrong.

Baron' Soontir Fel wrote:
The addition of large plexes to the FW routine will make BCs (and above) fights more attractive.


Bc's are still useless as it is unrestricted. still zero point in using a tier 1 tier 2 or any commandship in these new larges. with the new MEDIUM micro jump drive you should just repackage your battleships now as the TRUE AGE of attack battlecruisers is about to begin.

and the very thing that these short range bc's depend on. warping to zero on something is not in this unrestricted which is warping into a gated plex.

larges will be dominated by kiting ****** gangs and after a month everybody will soon see the stale combat of getting kited and never undock any of the bc's or cs (except tier 3) again.


I think we'll see more BCs than BS's in large plexes. ABCs maybe, but most people in FW will have BC's available rather than BS or ABC's.
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#174 - 2014-05-20 15:41:39 UTC
Veskrashen wrote:
Estella Osoka wrote:
The only part of Rahelis' idea I agree with is denying Caldari and Amarr militia from docking in Gallente And Minmatar FW stations, and vice versa. I have always found it quite stupid that someone in SPROT could dock in a highsec FDU station. It's like allowing North Korean military the ability to park in the Pentagon.

Extend this a bit - forbid docking in high sec stations of opposing factions. Wouldn't THAT be interesting? Especially since they're technically at war with those factions, after all...


I thought about that Vesk, but then thought that regular NPC Corps wouldn't care about a players allegiance. They just want a profit. However, FDU/SPROT/Tribal/24th NPC corps would/should care about faction allegiances because they are the representative of their faction's militia.
Veskrashen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#175 - 2014-05-20 15:53:36 UTC
Estella Osoka wrote:
Veskrashen wrote:
Estella Osoka wrote:
The only part of Rahelis' idea I agree with is denying Caldari and Amarr militia from docking in Gallente And Minmatar FW stations, and vice versa. I have always found it quite stupid that someone in SPROT could dock in a highsec FDU station. It's like allowing North Korean military the ability to park in the Pentagon.

Extend this a bit - forbid docking in high sec stations of opposing factions. Wouldn't THAT be interesting? Especially since they're technically at war with those factions, after all...


I thought about that Vesk, but then thought that regular NPC Corps wouldn't care about a players allegiance. They just want a profit. However, FDU/SPROT/Tribal/24th NPC corps would/should care about faction allegiances because they are the representative of their faction's militia.

True enough, but there's always the issue of a station in Caldari space, for instance, is still under the providence of the Caldari State. I can imagine that any sovereign would look down upon "terrorists" from opposing navies docking at stations under their purview.

Though I would say that linking it to -5.0 standings with that faction - where faction rats in addition to navy rats will pursue you - would also make sense.

We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#176 - 2014-05-20 18:34:26 UTC
Blanket station denial in enemy hisec would ruin it for those of us who like to occassionally go and harass those WTs who think they are safe missioning in hisec.

BTW, that is why I never go full pirate. I would loathe myself if I thought I was denying myself the ability to kill WTs in all da space!
Veskrashen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#177 - 2014-05-20 18:37:45 UTC
Estella Osoka wrote:
Blanket station denial in enemy hisec would ruin it for those of us who like to occassionally go and harass those WTs who think they are safe missioning in hisec.

BTW, that is why I never go full pirate. I would loathe myself if I thought I was denying myself the ability to kill WTs in all da space!

Hadn't considered that. Good point.

We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."
Beardon
CRIME CRIME
#178 - 2014-05-21 18:57:34 UTC
Flyinghotpocket wrote:
Beardon wrote:


I swear, reading threads like this makes me wonder if I'm actually in FW; if you're giving an accurate account of events in the other WZ, then that's a pretty awful state of affairs, but it's so far removed from my own experience that I have some trouble believing it. We've done more than a handful of BC fleets in recent times and the majority of them were successful. Sometimes you gotta deal with a bunch of waffles dropping on you, but that's just a fact of life round here. They tend to bring the good fight, not just blobs so it's not even a bad experience when they show up in a Talos fleet; good times are had by all!. As far as bridging goes, that's a rarity in our neck of the woods. Cynos pop up from time to time, but not to a sufficient degree to make BC fleets seem awful as a rule of thumb. There certainly isn't a bridge waiting for us in every system....

I dunno if this is a case of unique experience on my part, or if it's just a difference in warzones, or if maybe your experience is unique (from what I can tell though you've been around the block a few times, so I doubt this one is the case). From what I can tell though, the amarr / minnie habitat seems pretty craptacular compared to cal / gal. We at least don't live in perpetual fear of fleets bridging on us.

I have explained this on this thread or another but i will do it one more time.

the reason why there is cynos and bridges in the majority of our warzone is because our regions are so jam packed you can jump anything to the other end of the warzone since there are so few lighter years between our systems. it is incredibly easy to prop up a titan in the middle system's and wala you can bridge anywhere in the fw warzone.

all the pirates have to do is keep and alt in each major home system and await for big ships to undock. and since well, we have moved every minmatar into 1 system there are a dominance of alts in the amarr homesystems (and the one minmatar system).

i no in caldari area the warzone has tons of light years to travel and that is probably the biggest reason you guys can get away with capital warfare in some cases and undocking big stuff to not immediately be bridged on.


Thanks for the explanation, that makes sense. I've heard people complain about the size and layout of the minnie / amarr WZ before, but not in a way that actually explains why it's an issue. Most people I've talked with cite an abundance of choke points as being the problem, because you can't go off in a fleet without rolling right through home systems. I know it's a bit of a tangent, but would you mind weighing in on the truth of this?

It seems to me that it shouldn't pose that much of a problem (barring epic intel, which will **** over any fleet) because of how quickly you can roll in and out. I mean you just warp to the next gate and it's done. Even if they see you undock it still takes time to form up. A few months back (has it really been that long?) when we were living next to the entire Gallente militia if we had business to attend to on the other side of Eha, we just rolled through without issue more often than not.

My perspective is rather biased because 9 times out of 10 our business was in Eha, and as we lived next door to them, the time it takes to form up accordingly is too short; it's not like they have a few jumps warning. Additionally, when the entire WZ is stacked in two systems (this is no longer the case) you just gotta get through the one epic home system to be in the clear, but from what I hear about your neck of the woods, it's more spread out, and your fleet would have to roll through multiple home systems, most of which are choke points. So as I've been led to believe, they can get your comp, assume with relative confidence which gates you'll have to cross to get anywhere relevant, and then stop you in your tracks.

So, pretending that Titan bridges don't exist for a moment, is that actually a problem? Or are people just exaggerating? Or is it Titan bridges which make it a problem, be enabling fleets to get to choke points?

I also am aware that these issues probably wouldn't be that big if the fleet is cruiser sized and down, but I'm just curious.
Christine Peeveepeeski
Low Sec Concepts
#179 - 2014-05-21 19:45:58 UTC
If you undock a meaningful fleet in amarr/minnie warzone prepare to be hotdropped by any one of many groups... probably more than one. It's a near certainty and you can be absolutely guarenteed that if one militia fields a major fleet, the other won't be anyway so excuses fly and the FC welps it into the first bait he sees. Or maybe the second :P
Flyinghotpocket
Small Focused Memes
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#180 - 2014-05-21 20:58:04 UTC
Beardon wrote:


Thanks for the explanation, that makes sense. I've heard people complain about the size and layout of the minnie / amarr WZ before, but not in a way that actually explains why it's an issue. Most people I've talked with cite an abundance of choke points as being the problem, because you can't go off in a fleet without rolling right through home systems. I know it's a bit of a tangent, but would you mind weighing in on the truth of this?

It seems to me that it shouldn't pose that much of a problem (barring epic intel, which will **** over any fleet) because of how quickly you can roll in and out. I mean you just warp to the next gate and it's done. Even if they see you undock it still takes time to form up. A few months back (has it really been that long?) when we were living next to the entire Gallente militia if we had business to attend to on the other side of Eha, we just rolled through without issue more often than not.

My perspective is rather biased because 9 times out of 10 our business was in Eha, and as we lived next door to them, the time it takes to form up accordingly is too short; it's not like they have a few jumps warning. Additionally, when the entire WZ is stacked in two systems (this is no longer the case) you just gotta get through the one epic home system to be in the clear, but from what I hear about your neck of the woods, it's more spread out, and your fleet would have to roll through multiple home systems, most of which are choke points. So as I've been led to believe, they can get your comp, assume with relative confidence which gates you'll have to cross to get anywhere relevant, and then stop you in your tracks.

So, pretending that Titan bridges don't exist for a moment, is that actually a problem? Or are people just exaggerating? Or is it Titan bridges which make it a problem, be enabling fleets to get to choke points?

I also am aware that these issues probably wouldn't be that big if the fleet is cruiser sized and down, but I'm just curious.

with the addition of the new stargate links the chokes points are less of an issue but are still in some cases. there used to be 3 major choke points in the warzone and in each of these system or getting to these systems there were LONG au warp's to these gates giving AMPLE time to setup a bridge on the other side or just plain gate camps. And all the minmatar controlled these choke points.

Before inferno there was no titans in our warzone. there was an occasional goon titan that would jump in and doomsday a raven but that was it, there was no bridging around. After inferno the easiest way to get isk for a titan was in FW, and pretty soon you saw TONS of personal titans being added to each side and the pirates who used the FW system to farm as well. Not to mention that exclusive toys that people had before inferno black ops/carriers/90% web Marauder soon EVERYBODY has them after inferno, i kid you not within months.

Let me give an example of a fleet. Amarr undocks a decent sized bc fleet. you can go about 8 jumps before you get to your target enemy fleet usually minmatar. Now i dont no what it is but getting them to fight quickly is not on their agenda. they have learned many good tricks from their top FC's such as waiting as long as possible to reach critical mass, or double checking everyones fit some such stuff, but they take FOREVER to come up with the perfect counter fleet. It always is the perfect counter. It is never the ships they want to fly its only the ships they NEED to win, why fight at all when your not gonna win? So amarr fc's have a few options. A. dock up, B. get a bridge ready /cap fleet C. Reship to counter them or in our case reship so they will fight us.

Even just sitting around waiting for the minmatar to be ready you will just bridged on by pirates if you sit still to long. so eventually the more time you spend out side plexs the shorter the timer is that your going to get bridged on, because their alts are getting your position or the minmatar are arranging some help. Its basically an all you can bridge buffet in amarr/mini warzone both sides sell out to get each other. And the pirates that got rich on FW isk are loving it.

Even 2 days ago me and my fellow corp mates were questioning if bridges are still a problem because we hadnt seen one in about a month, so we undock a oracle and a harbinger. After 20 minutes of being in space we got a PL cyno, it got insta killed and only a nyx and panther got through, but FEAR NOT pl had another cyno within 2 minutes on grid and the rest of the bridge went through.

i have derailed. the Bridge is the problem, the free FW isk is the problem, no having a effective cyno jammer in fw is the problem. we have tried to use that mobile cyno jammers before, and all they do is bridge off grid and they still get to the battle within 1 minute.


anything else ill be happy to answer, kind got side tracked writing this and you can really tell.

Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro