These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[Kronos] Freighters and Jump Freighters Rebalance [Updated]

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Paz Heiwa
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#981 - 2014-05-18 21:34:59 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Walter Hart White wrote:

Are you ******* kidding me? I have ganker alt, I know this. There is NO RISK.


people who pretend to have ganker alts is also something that never gets old.

I am the ganking alt. Now who is pretending?
Althalus Stenory
Flying Blacksmiths
#982 - 2014-05-18 21:35:49 UTC
Paz Heiwa wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Walter Hart White wrote:

Are you ******* kidding me? I have ganker alt, I know this. There is NO RISK.


people who pretend to have ganker alts is also something that never gets old.

I am the ganking alt. Now who is pretending?

The correct question is "who care ?"

EsiPy - Python 2.7 / 3.3+ Swagger Client based on pyswagger for ESI
Paz Heiwa
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#983 - 2014-05-18 21:36:59 UTC
Althalus Stenory wrote:
Paz Heiwa wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Walter Hart White wrote:

Are you ******* kidding me? I have ganker alt, I know this. There is NO RISK.


people who pretend to have ganker alts is also something that never gets old.

I am the ganking alt. Now who is pretending?

The correct question is "who care ?"

Apparently he did?
Althalus Stenory
Flying Blacksmiths
#984 - 2014-05-18 21:37:55 UTC
Paz Heiwa wrote:
Apparently he did?

Well let him speak. Don't feed the trolls :)

EsiPy - Python 2.7 / 3.3+ Swagger Client based on pyswagger for ESI
Walter Hart White
Heisenberg Minings
#985 - 2014-05-18 21:39:15 UTC
Althalus Stenory wrote:
Paz Heiwa wrote:
Apparently he did?

Well let him speak. Don't feed the trolls :)

Just don't want to be called liar.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#986 - 2014-05-18 21:44:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Daichi Yamato
fair enough WP. so ill point out where u urself explained where the risk is.

Walter Hart White wrote:
If 300m drops, you are neutral. If anything more, you are in profit.


this is risk. u guys may put in the effort to increase the chances of getting a kill and making money. but its not something u can deliver with 100% certainty. This is widely understood, and why assumed u weren't being truthful. sorry What?

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Walter Hart White
Heisenberg Minings
#987 - 2014-05-18 21:49:26 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
fair enough WP. so ill point out where u urself explained where the risk is.

Walter Hart White wrote:
If 300m drops, you are neutral. If anything more, you are in profit.


this is risk. u guys may put in the effort to increase the chances of getting a kill and making money. but its not something u can deliver with 100% certainty. This is widely understood, and why assumed u weren't being truthful. sorry What?

With CODE, there is no risk. Ships are paid off by someone who does not expect any profit. With pirates, well, alright, it didn't drop 300m, it dropped 0. Next one will. In 15m. Costs are 300m, but you do not pay 300m total. Everyone pays 20m. Losing 20m is nothing. Peanuts.
Allison A'vani
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#988 - 2014-05-18 21:49:34 UTC
The best solution is to just leave JF alone. Don't touch them. They are perfectly fine the way they are. This is a bad change.
Lyn Fel
Black Frog Logistics
Red-Frog
#989 - 2014-05-18 21:49:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Lyn Fel
I am pretty sure that most players would agree that flying a freighter is currently one of the most boring and tedious things to do in Eve.

So Fozie decided to make them:

  1. More boring and tedious to fly (less agility)
  2. More expensive (rig costs)
  3. Easier to kill (less tank)
  4. Less useful (smaller cargo)


Of course if you double the cost of the ship with T2 rigs you can fix some of that.

Apparently making the game more fun to play is not one of the current design goals of Eve Online.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#990 - 2014-05-18 21:50:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
Daichi Yamato wrote:
fair enough WP. so ill point out where u urself explained where the risk is.

Walter Hart White wrote:
If 300m drops, you are neutral. If anything more, you are in profit.


this is risk. u guys may put in the effort to increase the chances of getting a kill and making money. but its not something u can deliver with 100% certainty. This is widely understood, and why assumed u weren't being truthful. sorry What?


This is not a risk. Who cares about the drop when you gank? You are ISK-efficient regardless on the killboards. The drop is only icing on top of the already delicious cake.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
lombodo
Arc Energy Inc
#991 - 2014-05-18 21:50:29 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
lombodo wrote:
Just out of curiosity....

I fly a Freighter, I should not carry more than a bil worth in cargo to make it worth while for gankers (probably pre-talos rule)

With the current changes, I buy the HP rigs and which cost around 1-15b so technically gankers no longer need any cargo value to make any gank cost effective?

If I am wrong please let me know but it seems like I really shouldn't bother hauling anything due to risk vs reward.


Rigs don't drop.

In case people are wondering where we are, we're talking with Fozzie, and keeping an eye on the thread, to pick out good posts.


What's the opinion on a freighter now costing 2 freighter worth of ISK to have the same function as previously? Anyone who went with the charon most likely did it because of the best cargo capacity in class. This then require fitting 1,4 bill ISK worth of rigs on it.


Maybe this is the point I was trying to make, I am down 2 bil in the hole before I even calculate the risk with transporting 500mil in goods.

IF an extra 1.5bil cost in rigs made my ship superior in terms of value vs gankability I would consider it BALANCED.
After reading the replies I think that whoever thought up these changes does not own or even use these ships.

I really dont mind the idea of rigs and having reductions and positive effects around them. But as it stands I get the same ship for an extra 1.5bil with NO quality of improvement from what I had before minus half my cargo which is effectively a nerf.

I would understand if you main goals around these rig changes was to limit hub dominance for example but meh, I wouldn't even bother using my freighter due to the increase costs and risk involved in a single region.
Azami Nevinyrall
172.0.0.1
#992 - 2014-05-18 21:50:31 UTC
Besides the nerf to cargo size and Capital packaged size.

I do not understand the need for any of this!

Keep the rest as they are now, there's nothing wrong with making it harder to gank freighters.

I'd love to hear the reasoning behind these changes!

...
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#993 - 2014-05-18 21:51:42 UTC
Azami Nevinyrall wrote:
Besides the nerf to cargo size and Capital packaged size.

I do not understand the need for any of this!

Keep the rest as they are now, there's nothing wrong with making it harder to gank freighters.

I'd love to hear the reasoning behind these changes!


Generation Angry Bird and Farmville.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#994 - 2014-05-18 21:53:31 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:
fair enough WP. so ill point out where u urself explained where the risk is.

Walter Hart White wrote:
If 300m drops, you are neutral. If anything more, you are in profit.


this is risk. u guys may put in the effort to increase the chances of getting a kill and making money. but its not something u can deliver with 100% certainty. This is widely understood, and why assumed u weren't being truthful. sorry What?


This is not a risk. Who cares about the drop when you gank? You are ISK-efficient regardless on the killboards. The drop is only icing on top of the already delicious cake.

Who cares about ISK efficiency? That's entirely not the point.
You seem to believe that less expensive ships/fleets shouldn't be able to kill more expensive ship/fleets.
If that's the case, please go back to the ballpen, you'll find your peers there.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Walter Hart White
Heisenberg Minings
#995 - 2014-05-18 21:54:52 UTC
Azami Nevinyrall wrote:
Besides the nerf to cargo size and Capital packaged size.

I do not understand the need for any of this!

Keep the rest as they are now, there's nothing wrong with making it harder to gank freighters.

I'd love to hear the reasoning behind these changes!

Actually there is nothing wrong with this. Freighters getting buff would be awesome. Ganking them will feel more like something wroth doing and fun unlike now. There will be plenty of pinatas that will antitank and carry huge cargo, so they will neft themselves. Keep them the same they are now and add rig slots. Everything is fixed. People who fit hull upgrades, lose cargo. People who fit cargo, lose hull. People who fit agility, lose hull. People who do not fit anything (and that should be a god damn option too), lose nothing but gain nothing.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#996 - 2014-05-18 21:55:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Rivr Luzade wrote:
This is not a risk. Who cares about the drop when you gank?
The professional gankers.

Walter Hart White wrote:
People who fit hull upgrades, lose cargo. People who fit cargo, lose hull. People who fit agility, lose hull.

They lose armour, not hull. You're thinking about expander and nanofiber modules, and I have seen no mention of them moving those drawbacks over to the rigs. That detail makes this whole change far easier to compensate for.
Allison A'vani
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#997 - 2014-05-18 22:00:30 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
This is not a risk. Who cares about the drop when you gank?
The professional gankers.

Walter Hart White wrote:
People who fit hull upgrades, lose cargo. People who fit cargo, lose hull. People who fit agility, lose hull.

They lose armour, not hull. You're thinking about expander modules, and I have seen no mention of them moving that over to the rigs. That detail makes this whole change far easier to compensate for.


The risk is still zero since all you have to do is ship scan the freighter 3 or 4 times.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#998 - 2014-05-18 22:00:32 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:
fair enough WP. so ill point out where u urself explained where the risk is.

Walter Hart White wrote:
If 300m drops, you are neutral. If anything more, you are in profit.


this is risk. u guys may put in the effort to increase the chances of getting a kill and making money. but its not something u can deliver with 100% certainty. This is widely understood, and why assumed u weren't being truthful. sorry What?


This is not a risk. Who cares about the drop when you gank? You are ISK-efficient regardless on the killboards. The drop is only icing on top of the already delicious cake.


even the kill itself is not a certainty.

what if the freighter pilot uses webs as this guy pointed out.

If ur measuring the chances of a successful gank from after the point a freighters been bumped, ill admit, the chances of escape are almost 0 (which is why i say dnt get bumped). but even the turrets catalysts and talos's use work on a random number generator. fingers crossed...

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#999 - 2014-05-18 22:01:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Allison A'vani wrote:
The risk is still zero since all you have to do is ship scan the freighter 3 or 4 times.

No. The only way for the risk to be zero is for all probabilities and all outcomes to be zero. They're not. There are simply far too many “if”s and far too many RNG rolls involved.
Allison A'vani
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1000 - 2014-05-18 22:02:37 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:
fair enough WP. so ill point out where u urself explained where the risk is.

Walter Hart White wrote:
If 300m drops, you are neutral. If anything more, you are in profit.


this is risk. u guys may put in the effort to increase the chances of getting a kill and making money. but its not something u can deliver with 100% certainty. This is widely understood, and why assumed u weren't being truthful. sorry What?


This is not a risk. Who cares about the drop when you gank? You are ISK-efficient regardless on the killboards. The drop is only icing on top of the already delicious cake.


even the kill itself is not a certainty.

what if the freighter pilot uses webs as this guy pointed out.

If ur measuring the chances of a successful gank from after the point a freighters been bumped, ill admit, the chances of escape are almost 0 (which is why i say dnt get bumped). but even the turrets catalysts and talos's use work on a random number generator. fingers crossed...


Who cares if they use webs, just fit one of the 15 dessys with a single point.