Player Features and Ideas Discussion

What he's saying is the gankers still kill most of the freighter while being too lazy to do it and hunting for barge/industrial ship more because they are easier targets. All in a day of work.

this one's more a case of "stupid people kept asking for things, even though they were told this was going to happen".

More like "people were asking for obviously needed buffs and stupid people nerfed it instead".

Freighter didn't needed a buff.

No buffs were needed, that was just wishful thinking among those who thought CCP would ever support their dreams of them autopiloting through space with several billion isk in their cargohold.

Nerfs seemingly were needed, though.

There were no buffs necessary, freighters and JFs were fine.
The predominant effect of the nerf however will be the increase in prices for people living in remote areas of space.

Uh no, when you do a significance test at the 90% level you're saying that you want to be 90% certain that your confidence interval contains the true population proportion, or that you want to be 90% certain that rejecting the null hypothesis is correct.

It's about probabilities, not interpretation.

You do have to factor in the concept of individual loss - rather than cumulative isk loss - when balancing risk vs reward for ganking imo. A well fitted catalyst costs what? Getting a group together, I can imagine is challenging and requires organizational skills. But an individual's sense of loss for losing his gank ship to CONCORD is minimal at best when compared to the owner of a freighter (which is supposed to be a capital ship), even if that owner isn't doing anything stupid like pack multiple billions in his freighter.

Though I think we digress. This change just feels rushed and not fully thought out. Hopefully CCP will keep refining it a bit more before release.

hate to be pedantic, but that's the definition of a credible interval.

I dont ever think anyone assumed choice would come without a cost, I think most imagined that with the introduction of rigs we would have the opportunity to marginally increase cargo and tank ./ or speed, OR massively improve cargo OR tank. Please note the or. The main issue that is created with the current proposed set of changes is that there really isn't a middle ground. If i want to be able to move and ihub or 2 sov upgrades there is more or less only 1 way for me to really rig a freighter, that is hardly choice.

Coming into this thread I fully expected and embraced that there would be at least a marginal nerf in base hauling capacity to both the JF and Freightor, but the degree to which Fozzie nerfed them is amazing. Realistically, freighters were in dire need of a buff, as someone who has been bumped around madrimille for 15 minutes there is no way one can consider the current gank meta fair or balanced. Jump freighters were more or less fine as is and realistically didn't need any change, though having them being able to move 400k m3 would have been kind of nice just because of the aforementioned sov upgrades.

Some things that i think would make this more palatable. (not necessarily all, but pick and choose)

1. Give each races frieghtor / JF a defined role, before they each had some uniqueness, I feel like you have removed some of that as most of them have very similar capacity's now, especially the jfs. It would be cool if there was a reason to spec into multiple races of freightor and each race had a reason to use it above others for certain situations. I.E. Minmatar for speed, Amarr for tank, Caldari for Capacity. This somewhat exists already but it would be nice to see these more defined. This adds some more diversity to the high level logistics play.

2. 2 rigs slots on freightors 1 on jf's, Allow for some choice but make it so we can at least use the base model without having to make the investment into capital rigs i.e. throw away ihub freighters, I really don't want to be using a 3 bil isk freighter in nullsec to get things done.

3. Some agility or warp speed increase, i'm not talking anything massive, but it is hard to resist autopiloting sometime as this is the most boring thing in the game. Your either going to live or your going to die on any given trip, there is little you can do (aside from cargo selection) that is going going to change that.

Do remember that you are already effectively nerfing JF;s with the jump fuel consumption changes, im not seeing why they need additional nerfs. Nor do I see how JF's were contributing to power creep as since empire is central, and jfs move goods from the central location empire to the war front, not matter which front your fighting on HS is usually about the same distance away for both sides. Living in Deep null, it is already pretty expensive to move out to null and back, a 50% increase in cost is going to make a big difference in cost for those of us that are 5 jumps deep.