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Paladin worth it for missions?

Author
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#1 - 2014-05-14 19:59:14 UTC
Seems to have good DPS but not the projection of a Vargur or Mach. Is it "worth it"?

Compared to a TFI, Vargur, or Golem, or RS. I also have a Tengu for missions, but I use that for ***** and giggles, not necessarily for maximizing ISK/hr.

My agents for Amarr Space are all Ministry of War if that makes a difference. The other 3 factions I have pretty much everyone.

I would like to eventually l have all 4 Marauders in their own corner of space.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it

Batelle
Filthy Peasants
#2 - 2014-05-14 20:07:47 UTC
Laserboats are the one thing I don't fly, its my understanding that they, and especially the paladin, would have excellent projection.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

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Estella Osoka
Perkone
Caldari State
#3 - 2014-05-14 21:09:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Estella Osoka
For Amarr space, yes. Paladin has excellent projection. All you have to do is switch crystals, and your dps drop is not that much when you switch from conflag to scorch. Not to mention switiching crystals is instant.
stoicfaux
#4 - 2014-05-14 21:49:08 UTC  |  Edited by: stoicfaux
Cipher Jones wrote:
Seems to have good DPS but not the projection of a Vargur or Mach. Is it "worth it"?


Pulse + Scorch = 87km + 19km
Pulse + Scorch + Bastion = 99km + 21km
DPS: 818 (or 902 with 2 5% dmg implants)

Cap stable with the tractors off. 550+ tank with bastion against everything (resists: 79.5/73.3/73/75.3)

[Paladin, Level 4 - Pulse2]
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Heat Sink II
Corpum C-Type Medium Armor Repairer
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II

Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Large Micro Jump Drive

Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Small Tractor Beam II
Small Tractor Beam II
Small Tractor Beam II
Bastion Module I

Large Energy Discharge Elutriation I
Large Energy Discharge Elutriation I

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.

Rexxorr
Perkone
Caldari State
#5 - 2014-05-14 21:53:37 UTC
Pulse Paladin with scorch will reach out to ~90km with ~900 dps. Around 30km use conflag for ~1300 dps. For isk/hour in Amarr space there is no better ship currently.
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
#6 - 2014-05-14 22:29:33 UTC
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#7 - 2014-05-14 22:37:23 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
Seems to have good DPS but not the projection of a Vargur or Mach. Is it "worth it"?


This is incorrect... The Vargur and Machareal are awesome ships but they are always working in falloff. This means you're not getting the DPS you think you're getting.

70km optimal and 1033 DPS with IN MF...

[Paladin, Missions]
Imperial Navy Large Armor Repairer
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Armor EM Hardener II
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Heat Sink II

Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script
Large Micro Jump Drive

Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Bastion Module I
Small Tractor Beam II
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Large Energy Discharge Elutriation I
Large Energy Burst Aerator II

Hobgoblin II x5
Gleam L x4
Imperial Navy Multifrequency L x4
Imperial Navy Gamma L x4
Optimal Range Script x1
Tracking Speed Script x2
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#8 - 2014-05-16 03:53:31 UTC
IIshira wrote:
Cipher Jones wrote:
Seems to have good DPS but not the projection of a Vargur or Mach. Is it "worth it"?


This is incorrect... The Vargur and Machareal are awesome ships but they are always working in falloff. This means you're not getting the DPS you think you're getting.

70km optimal and 1033 DPS with IN MF...

[Paladin, Missions]
Imperial Navy Large Armor Repairer
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Armor EM Hardener II
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Heat Sink II

Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script
Large Micro Jump Drive

Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Bastion Module I
Small Tractor Beam II
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Large Energy Discharge Elutriation I
Large Energy Burst Aerator II

Hobgoblin II x5
Gleam L x4
Imperial Navy Multifrequency L x4
Imperial Navy Gamma L x4
Optimal Range Script x1
Tracking Speed Script x2


Mach Vs Vargur Vs Pulse Vs Tachyon Vs Cruise Golem. The Pally fits are the ones from this thread.
http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h190/cipherjones/prijection_zpsc09fe66c.jpg

However the tracking is .0226 On Tachs, .0422 on pulse, .75 on the Mach, and .0879 on the Vargur.

The Pulse fit hits way harder than the Vargur < 55k but with half the tracking. That's Kinda why I specified Ministry of War as my agent, I think I would get less Guristas missions and more Sanshas. The NPC's being Sanshas and Blood Raiders is way better for the Paladin from the numbers I see.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it

stoicfaux
#9 - 2014-05-16 04:26:51 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
Mach Vs Vargur Vs Pulse Vs Tachyon Vs Cruise Golem. The Pally fits are the ones from this thread.
http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h190/cipherjones/prijection_zpsc09fe66c.jpg

However the tracking is .0226 On Tachs, .0422 on pulse, .75 on the Mach, and .0879 on the Vargur.

The Pulse fit hits way harder than the Vargur < 55k but with half the tracking. That's Kinda why I specified Ministry of War as my agent, I think I would get less Guristas missions and more Sanshas. The NPC's being Sanshas and Blood Raiders is way better for the Paladin from the numbers I see.

Swap out the scripts in the TCs and swap ammo as the targets close the range.

T2 Pulse + 3 TCs with Tracking scripts:
* IN Standard: 52km+13km, 0.081 tracking, DPS of 754
* IN Ultraviolet: 45k+13km, 0.081 tracking, DPS of 849
* IN XRay: 39km+11km, 0.081 tracking, and DPS of 943
* IN MF: 26km +13km, 0.081, and 1132 DPS

If you have a mobile depot out, you can even swap quickly between tachyons and pulses.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.

IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#10 - 2014-05-16 04:27:41 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
IIshira wrote:
Cipher Jones wrote:
Seems to have good DPS but not the projection of a Vargur or Mach. Is it "worth it"?


This is incorrect... The Vargur and Machareal are awesome ships but they are always working in falloff. This means you're not getting the DPS you think you're getting.

70km optimal and 1033 DPS with IN MF...

[Paladin, Missions]
Imperial Navy Large Armor Repairer
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Armor EM Hardener II
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Heat Sink II

Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script
Large Micro Jump Drive

Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Bastion Module I
Small Tractor Beam II
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Large Energy Discharge Elutriation I
Large Energy Burst Aerator II

Hobgoblin II x5
Gleam L x4
Imperial Navy Multifrequency L x4
Imperial Navy Gamma L x4
Optimal Range Script x1
Tracking Speed Script x2


Mach Vs Vargur Vs Pulse Vs Tachyon Vs Cruise Golem. The Pally fits are the ones from this thread.
http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h190/cipherjones/prijection_zpsc09fe66c.jpg

However the tracking is .0226 On Tachs, .0422 on pulse, .75 on the Mach, and .0879 on the Vargur.

The Pulse fit hits way harder than the Vargur < 55k but with half the tracking. That's Kinda why I specified Ministry of War as my agent, I think I would get less Guristas missions and more Sanshas. The NPC's being Sanshas and Blood Raiders is way better for the Paladin from the numbers I see.


Has anyone done tests on the effects of tracking in this situation? I can't see much tracking would be needed for NPC's flying directly at you at 70km
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#11 - 2014-05-16 16:23:45 UTC
What mission meets that criteria? I haven't found one yet.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it

Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
#12 - 2014-05-16 17:15:23 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
What mission meets that criteria? I haven't found one yet.


For a tachyon build? If so...

Blood Raider's Blockade (most of the spawns are at ~75k or more, first spawn is ~35k, last ~50)
Mining Missapropriation (mining barge at ~40k and every other spawn is between 55k-upper 70s)

Though a pulse build works pretty good on these as well I hear.

"Tomahawks?"

"----in' A, right?"

"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."

"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."

Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#13 - 2014-05-16 18:07:47 UTC
Yeah, the pulse build was the one I was looking at. Its the equivilant of the 800 build. I would rather MJD into the action and brawl than out of it and snipe. The only long range turret fits I like are for incursions. I didn't have time to make a chart with all of the addendums Sto made but the numbers looked good in PYFA.

The long range Guristas missions I get will be short work with his fit, but I upgraded the tank to a btype large armor repper. Thanks.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it

IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#14 - 2014-05-16 18:42:43 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
What mission meets that criteria? I haven't found one yet.

Meets what criteria? If you mean NPC's approaching you from about 70km pretty much every mission I do in Amarr space. Occasionally I'll have to use Gamma on longer range targets but it's not nearly as common.
marVLs
#15 - 2014-05-16 20:32:25 UTC
In Amarr space nothing's better than Paladin

btw. Why do people still don't know how falloff works?
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#16 - 2014-05-16 21:48:11 UTC
marVLs wrote:
In Amarr space nothing's better than Paladin

btw. Why do people still don't know how falloff works?


It's not that complicated

Falloff
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#17 - 2014-05-16 23:02:41 UTC
I understand it quite well. Being Minmatar, I live in falloff. The falloff window of Amarr ships is WAY smaller, not what I'm used to. You have to consider tracking and optimal also.The overall gist of the thread was to see if it would perform as well or better than a Vargur in Minamatar space. The Vargur is my "low benchmark". Anything completing missions slower than this is a "for fun" ship.

With the tracking script swap out and crystal swap out suggested by stoicfaux, the Paladin hits a bit harder with equal(ish) tracking at every distance above 20K, provided that you use the correct ammo. With my Minmatar ships (always 800mm) I have tried every mission with every combo of ammo and found that RF Phased plasma, RF EMP, and RF fusion are all you need. With my cruise ships, it does make a difference to switch between Fury and Precision. I was trying to fit the Pally like the Vargur, and if you just threw your fit into PYFA or EFT and didn't adjust it correctly, the numbers would suck. Which is exactly what I did.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it

Caleidascope
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2014-05-16 23:44:24 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
What mission meets that criteria? I haven't found one yet.

It is called: Large Micro Jump Drive.

Life is short and dinner time is chancy

Eat dessert first!

Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#19 - 2014-05-17 00:01:12 UTC
Caleidascope wrote:
Cipher Jones wrote:
What mission meets that criteria? I haven't found one yet.

It is called: Large Micro Jump Drive.


Yeah, as I said, its better to jump into the **** than out. Pulse at close range does more damage than beam at long.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it

IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#20 - 2014-05-17 01:35:46 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
Caleidascope wrote:
Cipher Jones wrote:
What mission meets that criteria? I haven't found one yet.

It is called: Large Micro Jump Drive.


Yeah, as I said, its better to jump into the **** than out. Pulse at close range does more damage than beam at long.


You get an extra 188 DPS with Conflagration but I'm happy keeping range in my Paladin.

I'm probably going to try a close range Nightmare after the faction battleship changes since destroying things at range can get boring.
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