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Tackling the problem of null-sec ratting bots.

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admiral root
Red Galaxy
#61 - 2014-05-16 13:17:17 UTC
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
Ugggh here we go again with the fabricated numbers which we know have to be true because this is in fact the internet and I AM A FRENCH MODEL

BONJOUR


Previously, on your numbers are fabricated:

La Nariz: here's a spreadsheet showing stuff I actually went out and did.
Kimmi: ooh, that's a neat idea - here's some stuff I did, too, and the numbers seem to agree.
Guy who thinks he's an AWACS plane: OMG U MADE T3H NUMBERZ UP!!!!oneone

And now, the next thrilling installment. Roll

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#62 - 2014-05-16 13:19:45 UTC
admiral root wrote:
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
Ugggh here we go again with the fabricated numbers which we know have to be true because this is in fact the internet and I AM A FRENCH MODEL

BONJOUR


Previously, on your numbers are fabricated:

La Nariz: here's a spreadsheet showing stuff I actually went out and did.
Kimmi: ooh, that's a neat idea - here's some stuff I did, too, and the numbers seem to agree.
Guy who thinks he's an AWACS plane: OMG U MADE T3H NUMBERZ UP!!!!oneone

And now, the next thrilling installment. Roll

BONJOUR
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#63 - 2014-05-16 13:32:51 UTC
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
General Nusense wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing



This "proof" is a load of ****. If you are only making 69 mil isk per hour ratting anoms in nullsec, you either 1) suck or 2) dont know how to rat. Please have someone with "skills" and knows how to "iskperhour" do it. Then go to Highsec and run LVL 4 missions and compare the two. Your "proof" will be a joke, like everyone knows it is.


That's what isk you make using the most popular ratting ship the ishtar.

Max you will ever make from anoms is 90 mil/hr

High sec level 4 missions not only matches that but 100+ mil/hr isnt too hard to do. That's before we get into incursions.


Ugggh here we go again with the fabricated numbers which we know have to be true because this is in fact the internet and I AM A FRENCH MODEL

BONJOUR


I have a system you can borrow if you'd like to prove them wrong.
Mythrandier
Solace Corp
#64 - 2014-05-16 13:40:10 UTC
Tauranon wrote:
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
General Nusense wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing



This "proof" is a load of ****. If you are only making 69 mil isk per hour ratting anoms in nullsec, you either 1) suck or 2) dont know how to rat. Please have someone with "skills" and knows how to "iskperhour" do it. Then go to Highsec and run LVL 4 missions and compare the two. Your "proof" will be a joke, like everyone knows it is.


That's what isk you make using the most popular ratting ship the ishtar.

Max you will ever make from anoms is 90 mil/hr

High sec level 4 missions not only matches that but 100+ mil/hr isnt too hard to do. That's before we get into incursions.


Ugggh here we go again with the fabricated numbers which we know have to be true because this is in fact the internet and I AM A FRENCH MODEL

BONJOUR


I have a system you can borrow if you'd like to prove them wrong.



Touché, mon cheri.

"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -  D. Adams.
Cebraio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#65 - 2014-05-16 13:45:31 UTC
Snakebyte Jack wrote:
IDGAD wrote:
Nullsec bots are actually very rare. I've done highsec ganking in the SAME three systems for a long time, and have caught over two dozen botting raven navy issues and marauders. Mostly it's raven navies on under skilled toons that are botting, most likely Chinese bots that farm and skill up their characters only to sell them when they are maxed for PvE.

The real botting problem is in highsec, not nullsec.



Tell that to all the AFK Ishtars in Deklein.

I think what your ganking in highsec is new players who are too scared to even speak in local when you start shooting their underskilled ravens.

AFK Ishtars are an abomination of game play (I have two), but they are legitimate game play until CCP fixes them. They are in no way related to botting, quite the opposite. They just work because the drone mechanics allow them to work afk. Botting requires external tools that give commands to the client/server. Two totally different and unrelated concepts.

With these Ishtars I make 60m per hour, per character while watching local and intel all the time to avoid being ganked. So it's not even afk really, it just doesn't require a lot of interaction with the keyboard.

As others have mentioned. Ratting bots in nullsec are a rare sight. The reason is simple: You can run the bot in level 4 missions and be protected by concord and npc corps. In addition level 4s will have a similar (or better) isk revenue than what most people make in anomalies.
Marc Durant
#66 - 2014-05-16 13:55:18 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

That's what isk you make using the most popular ratting ship the ishtar.

Max you will ever make from anoms is 90 mil/hr

High sec level 4 missions not only matches that but 100+ mil/hr isnt too hard to do. That's before we get into incursions.

Run anoms with the bling ships used in high sec, profit. You try to back this argument up every time by comparing apples & oranges. 'We use a cheap T2 Cruiser that doesn't make as much as a 10 billion isk battleship, so something is wrong'.

Also incursions support no more than 80 people with 100 mil/hr (Assuming 23/day like one can rat, and we all know ratting bots do exist, heck, Bots were capable of handling the old probe interface, let alone the new one, they certainly can rat). if you want to take a higher benchmark citing perfect TCRC walls & perfect pirate fleets all with officer bling that number of people supported drops to about 40. Across ALL OF EVE! Including those Null sec incursions that get run to clear cyno jam effects. So, lets stop pretending Incursions are actually significant when talking about income.


90 mil/hr is the most you will get out of anoms with a bling boat. High sec missions beats that, hence why when we tell GSF pilots how to make isk for cap ships most of the advice is to take advantage of high sec.


I like how people keep inflating numbers to support their cause.


Also, the Fan fest graph showed how Ratters are the most prolific botters and ratting is pretty much a 0.0 only thing, then add to that the 0.0 mining botters (total mining bots, spread over null and high sec) and the clearcut result is obvious; most botting happens in 0.0


Yes, yes I am. Thanks for noticing.
Elmonky
Alternative Royal Dynamics
GameTheory
#67 - 2014-05-16 13:56:51 UTC
My mobile phone signal can barely penetrate all the tin foil.

Hands up everyone who has genuinely uncovered a bot - I'm guessing that unless you work for CCP it's very few. I imagine that if i flew into a belt in my Dominix I would drop *insert drone preference here*, wait for bots and let the drones deal with them. Rinse and Repeat whilst I trim the hedges. Although that would be dumb.

It doesn't sound diffcult to emulate bot behaviour either seeing how most times it's a case of running away from anyone in local.

The BEST thing you can do.. is either petition the ''bot'', put the tin foil back in the drawer as you are stopping me from wrapping my kids sandwiches in it, or shoot the ship.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#68 - 2014-05-16 14:10:59 UTC
Marc Durant wrote:


I like how people keep inflating numbers to support their cause.


Also, the Fan fest graph showed how Ratters are the most prolific botters and ratting is pretty much a 0.0 only thing, then add to that the 0.0 mining botters (total mining bots, spread over null and high sec) and the clearcut result is obvious; most botting happens in 0.0




Going need some evidence to go with that. Because right now we have pie charts from team security that shows the vast bulk of bots reside in highsec, caldari space, mostly in the Forge, Lonetrek and the Citadel (they hold over 50% of bots in just those three regions)
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#69 - 2014-05-16 14:14:06 UTC
Elmonky wrote:
My mobile phone signal can barely penetrate all the tin foil.

Hands up everyone who has genuinely uncovered a bot - I'm guessing that unless you work for CCP it's very few. I imagine that if i flew into a belt in my Dominix I would drop *insert drone preference here*, wait for bots and let the drones deal with them. Rinse and Repeat whilst I trim the hedges. Although that would be dumb.

It doesn't sound diffcult to emulate bot behaviour either seeing how most times it's a case of running away from anyone in local.

The BEST thing you can do.. is either petition the ''bot'', put the tin foil back in the drawer as you are stopping me from wrapping my kids sandwiches in it, or shoot the ship.




Its easy to find mining bots.

Blow up their ship and watch to see if the pod continues to try to mine. We got hundreds of them reported in the first 2 ice interdictions. Most enjoyable.
Ka'Narlist
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#70 - 2014-05-16 14:16:04 UTC
How do you see if the pod tries to mine?
I
De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#71 - 2014-05-16 14:18:23 UTC
Ka'Narlist wrote:
How do you see if the pod tries to mine?
I

The bot is too stupid to realize it has no mining ship, so you watch the pod warp to station, warp back, spend three minutes "mining", warp to station to "unload", wash, rinse, repeat.

It's pretty obvious.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#72 - 2014-05-16 14:19:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Benny Ohu
Ka'Narlist wrote:
How do you see if the pod tries to mine?
I

the pod warps to station, docks, and flies back to the asteroid belt eery 15-20 minutes, as if it was unloading ore.

efb
Marc Durant
#73 - 2014-05-16 14:29:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Marc Durant
baltec1 wrote:
Marc Durant wrote:


I like how people keep inflating numbers to support their cause.


Also, the Fan fest graph showed how Ratters are the most prolific botters and ratting is pretty much a 0.0 only thing, then add to that the 0.0 mining botters (total mining bots, spread over null and high sec) and the clearcut result is obvious; most botting happens in 0.0




Going need some evidence to go with that. Because right now we have pie charts from team security that shows the vast bulk of bots reside in highsec, caldari space, mostly in the Forge, Lonetrek and the Citadel (they hold over 50% of bots in just those three regions)


Most CONCENTRATED in high sec, yes... for obvious (caldari/jita) reasons. But OVERALL, in the whole of null sec, there's more. Hence the other graph showing how the majority of botters are ratters. And while I'll happily agree to how in high sec there'll probably be more mining bots than in 0.0, even if 0.0 had no mining bots then STILL ratting bots would make it #1. But as there'll be mining bots in 0.0 as well it's clear that 0.0 is the biggest issue in this regard.

Yes, yes I am. Thanks for noticing.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#74 - 2014-05-16 14:32:54 UTC
Marc Durant wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Marc Durant wrote:


I like how people keep inflating numbers to support their cause.


Also, the Fan fest graph showed how Ratters are the most prolific botters and ratting is pretty much a 0.0 only thing, then add to that the 0.0 mining botters (total mining bots, spread over null and high sec) and the clearcut result is obvious; most botting happens in 0.0




Going need some evidence to go with that. Because right now we have pie charts from team security that shows the vast bulk of bots reside in highsec, caldari space, mostly in the Forge, Lonetrek and the Citadel (they hold over 50% of bots in just those three regions)


Most CONCENTRATED in high sec, yes... for obvious (cadlari/jita) reasons. But OVERALL, in the whole of null sec, there's more. Hence the other graph showing how the majority of botters are ratters. And while I'll happily agree to how in high sec there'll probably be more mining bots than in 0.0, even if 0.0 had no mining bots then STILL ratting bots would make it #1. But as there'll be mining bots in 0.0 as well it's clear that 0.0 is the biggest issue in this regard.


What graph would that be?

Because the one I am looking at shows that if you add up all of nullsec you get fewer bots than live in the Forge region in caldari high sec.
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#75 - 2014-05-16 14:34:23 UTC
Marc Durant wrote:
Hence the other graph showing how the majority of botters are ratters.


Do you have a link to said graph by any chance?

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#76 - 2014-05-16 14:38:19 UTC
i did hear something about lots of bots being battleship bots? but are battleships common for ratting anoms?

it's second-hand, anyway, so i'm going to watch the security presentation for myself now
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#77 - 2014-05-16 14:43:50 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
i did hear something about lots of bots being battleship bots? but are battleships common for ratting anoms?

it's second-hand, anyway, so i'm going to watch the security presentation for myself now


Battleships are somewhat rare in CFC space due to the warp times, we mostly use the ishtar.
Marc Durant
#78 - 2014-05-16 14:56:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Marc Durant
baltec1 wrote:
What graph would that be?

Because the one I am looking at shows that if you add up all of nullsec you get fewer bots than live in the Forge region in caldari high sec.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CZR9w3ftjY#t=1148


- edit -

And those are the ones caught, I bet there's a lot more bot petitioning happening in high sec than in 0.0.

Yes, yes I am. Thanks for noticing.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#79 - 2014-05-16 15:06:16 UTC
yeh i doubt anyone's running highsec ratting bots

Marc Durant wrote:
I bet there's a lot more bot petitioning happening in high sec than in 0.0.

there is zero information available on this so don't speculate
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#80 - 2014-05-16 15:11:44 UTC
According to this years presentation the Forge and Lonetrek once again dwarf everywhere else for combat bots and mining bots.