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Dev Blog: Tiptoe Through the Tooltips

First post First post
Author
Meytal
Doomheim
#581 - 2014-05-15 18:32:23 UTC
There are parts of this that are great, such as clusters of items that now pop up a list from which you can select actions to perform on the one you want, useful for navigating dense clusters of POS mods, for example.

However there are parts of this that are annoying, and sadly I'm finding more annoying aspects of this change than I'm finding positives. The two most annoying things for me are:

1) Hovering over a truncated column entry in the overview no longer expands the truncated text; instead, it displays the new tooltip for that type of item. Previously I could hover over an item and click the right one after reading the expanded text instead of now requiring multiple clicks and potential mistakes. For example, "Jita IV Moon 4 Caldari Navy Assembly" vs "Jita IV Moon 4 Caldari Business whatever" only displays "Station" now instead of the name, depending on the width of that column.

2) The delay between showing and removing the tooltips are more twitch than a Quake gamer still awake after 72 hours of caffeine and sugar induced hyper-awareness. The rapid, almost flashing, tooltip graphics demand constant attention from your eyes, distracting from anything that might be happening that is important. If the tooltip graphics were any larger, they might run the risk of inducing seizures in particularly sensitive people.


I suppose that including the truncated text in the tooltip could partially restore previous functionality that was lost with this change. If you do this, please take care to be location-aware and include the correct column's information.

If we could have a way to modify the tooltip delay, we could reduce the distraction associated with #2. This may be sufficient for many.

For others who truly are displeased with the new change -- and some will be -- an option to disable them completely would be welcomed. It would be even better to have a slightly more granular enable/disable option, as the weapon/module tooltips that were introduced long before this most recent change were very helpful.


More preferred would be to have a "New Player" setting and a "Minimal" setting, in addition to a "Disabled" setting. The current implementation would be the New Player setting, as it does greatly aid new players as they're getting used to the nomenclature of the game.

The implementation present immediately before this change would be the Minimal setting. It has some useful information, but doesn't clutter every inch of the screen with tooltips.

Then the Disabled setting is self explanatory. No tooltips, no weapon information popups, nothing.
Ivan Taredi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#582 - 2014-05-15 18:35:22 UTC
Meytal wrote:
There are parts of this that are great, such as clusters of items that now pop up a list from which you can select actions to perform on the one you want, useful for navigating dense clusters of POS mods, for example.

However there are parts of this that are annoying, and sadly I'm finding more annoying aspects of this change than I'm finding positives. The two most annoying things for me are:

1) Hovering over a truncated column entry in the overview no longer expands the truncated text; instead, it displays the new tooltip for that type of item. Previously I could hover over an item and click the right one after reading the expanded text instead of now requiring multiple clicks and potential mistakes. For example, "Jita IV Moon 4 Caldari Navy Assembly" vs "Jita IV Moon 4 Caldari Business whatever" only displays "Station" now instead of the name, depending on the width of that column.

2) The delay between showing and removing the tooltips are more twitch than a Quake gamer still awake after 72 hours of caffeine and sugar induced hyper-awareness. The rapid, almost flashing, tooltip graphics demand constant attention from your eyes, distracting from anything that might be happening that is important. If the tooltip graphics were any larger, they might run the risk of inducing seizures in particularly sensitive people.


I suppose that including the truncated text in the tooltip could partially restore previous functionality that was lost with this change. If you do this, please take care to be location-aware and include the correct column's information.

If we could have a way to modify the tooltip delay, we could reduce the distraction associated with #2. This may be sufficient for many.

For others who truly are displeased with the new change -- and some will be -- an option to disable them completely would be welcomed. It would be even better to have a slightly more granular enable/disable option, as the weapon/module tooltips that were introduced long before this most recent change were very helpful.


More preferred would be to have a "New Player" setting and a "Minimal" setting, in addition to a "Disabled" setting. The current implementation would be the New Player setting, as it does greatly aid new players as they're getting used to the nomenclature of the game.

The implementation present immediately before this change would be the Minimal setting. It has some useful information, but doesn't clutter every inch of the screen with tooltips.

Then the Disabled setting is self explanatory. No tooltips, no weapon information popups, nothing.


The weapon/module info popups can already be disabled if you wish (note: NOT the shield/armor/hull block that pops up) You can even hide passive modules.
Meytal
Doomheim
#583 - 2014-05-15 18:39:45 UTC
Ivan Taredi wrote:
Meytal wrote:
More preferred would be to have a "New Player" setting and a "Minimal" setting, in addition to a "Disabled" setting. The current implementation would be the New Player setting, as it does greatly aid new players as they're getting used to the nomenclature of the game.

The implementation present immediately before this change would be the Minimal setting. It has some useful information, but doesn't clutter every inch of the screen with tooltips.

Then the Disabled setting is self explanatory. No tooltips, no weapon information popups, nothing.


The weapon/module info popups can already be disabled if you wish (note: NOT the shield/armor/hull block that pops up) You can even hide passive modules.

I would actually use the minimal setting, were this suggestion implemented. I do like the weapon/module popups, but in general not most of the other tooltip/popups.
Masao Kurata
Perkone
Caldari State
#584 - 2014-05-15 18:48:01 UTC
The disambiguation tooltip is a great improvement to my quality of life although the delay in it popping up varies quite a lot for no apparent reason, you should look into that. The solar system map is still using the old style and needs to be converted to the new system, it is a pain when probing or doing anything else with the solar system view for that matter.
Elise Randolph
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#585 - 2014-05-15 18:55:06 UTC
So some tooltips are great and super helpful to new players. However, when selecting an item from space right now the tooltip pops up. When a system is TiDi'd, the tooltip is also under TiDi. This means that selecting a target (bad guy ship/drone/etc) from space becomes hilariously difficult.

Will bracket tool-tip logic and the other changes sufficiently address this?

~

Davina Sienar
The Misinterpretation of Silence
#586 - 2014-05-15 18:57:14 UTC
LOL

an "OFF-Switch" is no option...

First Time I'm glad about something from Microsoft...

Cause even in Windoz I CAN switch all Bubble/Balloon whatever popup Tolltipps : OFF




Lol
Zip Slings
SCI Zenith
Flying Dangerous
#587 - 2014-05-15 19:17:48 UTC
This new list of items when scrolling over a group in space has potential, but it needs to be faster and more persistent. What I mean by that is when I scroll over a cluster I need the group to pop up instantly and I need the list to persist long enough to get my mouse on it and it needs to persist until I move my mouse off of it. Right now you can be hovering over an item in the list and the list can disappear.

After reading the comments of other this seems to be a very play-style dependent concern. The ability to customize the features I listed above would be comprehensive in my experience.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#588 - 2014-05-15 19:19:57 UTC
Zip Slings wrote:
This new list of items when scrolling over a group in space has potential, but it needs to be faster and more persistent. What I mean by that is when I scroll over a cluster I need the group to pop up instantly and I need the list to persist long enough to get my mouse on it and it needs to persist until I move my mouse off of it. Right now you can be hovering over an item in the list and the list can disappear.

After reading the comments of other this seems to be a very play-style dependent concern. The ability to customize the features I listed above would be comprehensive in my experience.


I imagine it would be very playstyle dependent.

I, for example, want it gone with a seething hate. And I want it replaced with the previous iteration. The in space groups tooltip is one of the most egregiously bad ones, if you ask me.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Sarka Bathory
Perkone
Caldari State
#589 - 2014-05-15 19:36:05 UTC
I start to get lost on this whole tooltip-debacle... and therefore I need to get some answers. Please developers, I am sure you can help.

And this is not meant as an offense, and I am very well aware that the last two days may not have been the easiest in your professional life. And I do have compassion for you, since you are surely not the sole responsibles for the decision on this - let`s say "unlucky" - approach with the tooltips.

> I was getting from your last post on the actions you plan to take: the "ON/OFF" switch is high effort to realize. O.K. But that means, it is possible, right?

You guys at CCP are putting a lot of effort into bringing new features to us, and most of them everybody likes and appreciates - but a new paintjob, a faction frig, a cool deployable, a revamp of skills & other stuff, whilst great, are not a "make or break" for the game experience.
The tooltips, resp. the popups/lists in space, are a "make or brake". Why not put the effort there instead?

> If it is -for whatever reason- technically impossible to do the "ON/OFF" switch, what prevents you from going back to the working solution as off last week?
Are those popup windows the "hobby horse" of one of your top managers? Is there a strategic decision taken to switch the target group for EVE from adults to boys age 5-10? What is it that prevents you from even taking this easy fix into consideration?

This is not a rhetorical question! This is to find out if it even makes sense to provide feedback. If there is an insurmountable barrier to fix the core problem of those tooltips (popups in space), please just let us know. It could save us all some time.
Franky Saken
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#590 - 2014-05-15 19:40:16 UTC
Still nothing about the delays or at least making those configurable.

Nothing about the tooltips showing up at random delays, I frapsed my client and it shows up at different delays for lists with more content.

Nothing about blocking other brackets behind the list which now takes even longer than before as I have to wait for both the current timeout to go away and then for the new one to show up and then possible scroll down to the right thing.

Nothing about the increased amount of mouse movement (nevermind adding in the scroll wheel which is terribly slow to handle) which just makes it mechanically harder (more actions) to select the same bracket as before.

For inventory, modules, and stuff this is a huge improvement, nice styling, but for in-space work it's terrible in its current incarnation.
gascanu
Bearing Srl.
#591 - 2014-05-15 20:05:44 UTC
WHEN are we going to get the OFF switch???
not if, when!
you guys really want to shove this "stuff" down our throats?

are you ready for another of the " we will speak with our wallet" thingy?

do you really want to go there again?
Drogan Antollare
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#592 - 2014-05-15 20:09:42 UTC
Sarka Bathory wrote:

Are those popup windows the "hobby horse" of one of your top managers? Is there a strategic decision taken to switch the target group for EVE from adults to boys age 5-10? What is it that prevents you from even taking this easy fix into consideration?



its called "dumbing down computer games" , its a new trend and can be found in ALOT of games lately. SHAME


I would use the minimal setting aswell (from the previous solution few post above )
Thak Dallocort
Rogues and Destitutes
#593 - 2014-05-15 20:13:20 UTC
Drogan Antollare wrote:
Sarka Bathory wrote:

Are those popup windows the "hobby horse" of one of your top managers? Is there a strategic decision taken to switch the target group for EVE from adults to boys age 5-10? What is it that prevents you from even taking this easy fix into consideration?



its called "dumbing down computer games" , its a new trend and can be found in ALOT of games lately. SHAME


I would use the minimal setting aswell (from the previous solution few post above )



Maybe its a part of the 'Leave No Child Behind'/'Common Core" initiative?
Panterata
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#594 - 2014-05-15 20:15:47 UTC
this is 30th page of the the tread!

IT'S CLEAR THAT PPL WANT TURN OFF/ON SWITCH!

So DEV team will now do it! or reverse the patch

Their is no option they can or not!

it's simple.
So give to your customers (which are paying your salary) what they want!!
Celise Katelo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#595 - 2014-05-15 21:19:54 UTC
A option to turn off tool tips would be a good idea. Since they truly do clutter up the screen.

Kind regards Celise Katelo

[insert tool tip] Shocked [Error] = Cookies P

EVEBoard ...Just over 60million skill points, each skill was chosen for a reason. I closed my eyes & clicked another skill to train... "BINGO...!!!" ... "This time i got something usefull"

Cultural Enrichment
Jenkem Puffing Association
#596 - 2014-05-15 21:22:10 UTC
The tooltip of the skill queue used to auto-update while it was displayed, allowing us to quickly check if the skill was training (seconds ticking = good, seconds still = bad). This is no longer the case and even if the current skill is training, the tooltip will only show the time remaining when the tooltip was opened.

It's a small thing, but a slight annoyance.
Drizzd
Opera Gomera Liquidate 03
#597 - 2014-05-15 21:41:34 UTC
I'm really astonished ... CCP - you run this game for over 10 years now - but you didnt learn a SINGLE thing from your player base.

If people tell you "it wasnt on the test server" - then I tent to believe the players who tested it - and it certainly wouldnt be the first change which got pushed through without proper testing while you insisted on "it was on the testservers" while in truth it wasnt.

those tooltips and especially the background-filling boxes are a PAIN - make them go away FAST or at least give me a switch

if you dont need money from your players please continue your course of action - else you should overthink your actions towards YOUR INCOME BASE
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#598 - 2014-05-15 21:45:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
CCP Delegate Zero wrote:
Enough people have asked about an off switch that I think I have to give a straight answer to this: a blanket off switch is not a strong contender as a configuration option.
So make it one.
I'm not kidding here. If there is one thing this thread should have communicated to you it is this: if the tool tips continue to exist in their current form, an on-off switch is a must.

It is also by far the more simple solution compared to the only other option: to make the tool tip exist behind all other UI elements so those elements can be interacted with without triggering anything in the tool tip.

Quote:
To the list of things we will have ready to deploy very soon:

That's a nice list. It does not seem to address the core problem with the tool tips, though: that they impede use of the UI. They slow the player down; they cover up critically important interaction spots; and they often offer redundant or confusing information that just creates information overflow. They do the exact opposite of what they're supposed to do — instead of making the UI easier to use, they make it harder.

A slight increase in transparency does not fix the issue of the box blocking your view, because it's not just important to see what's behind the box — we also have to be able to interact with it. Since the tool boxes currently seem to expand to fit what activated them, with a very generous max size, they end up taking up far more space than they need to.

The timer issue is in many cases just a problem of information being moved to tool tips when it was previously immediately available. This is also a bad solution, and it reeks of Hollywood:itis. Fancy UI lint looks good in movies but is horrid to work with. The space-portion of EVE is still a time-critical game so waiting for the UI to spit out crucial information is an absolute no-no, no matter how pretty it may look. Information must be immediate and we must be able to filter it to fit our use cases. Conversely, when the information is no longer needed, it needs to disappear instantly so it no longer gets in the way of more important things.

Incidentally, this is why people still want to be able to turn off auto-scanning and system transitions. They look nice but they impede immediate usage and proper situational awareness. So while you're putting an on-off switch for the tool tips back on the top of the contender list, consider putting a few other on-off switches right below that one…
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#599 - 2014-05-15 21:56:28 UTC
The new tool tips have impeded my ability to do routine tasks such as docking to a station and warping to a specific celestial in a tightly grouped set of brackets, often increasing the time to do such routine tasks by many seconds/clicks. Further, they have hindered my ability to target specific ships via brackets in certain situations in pvp.

While I understand and support the desire to improve the UI, the new tooltips have decreased the quality of my gameplay experience. Please include an option to disable them.
Jimmy Prophet
State War Academy
Caldari State
#600 - 2014-05-15 22:17:54 UTC
What beautiful black boxes covering up the amazing graphics of the game.

So i can see infomation about what i hover my mouse over very nice. Shame that i can't see anything else on the screen beyond a black box.

Also mirroring the fact that the grouping of options in space is not very good and again while trying to align i can't see where in space other objects are because of guess what a even bigger black box. Transparency would help but to be honest a option to revert to the old UI or more options for the user to customize their experience instead of a forced dumbing down of our own thought