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Dev Blog: Tiptoe Through the Tooltips

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Penny Ernaga
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#501 - 2014-05-15 09:19:05 UTC
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
ViRtUoZone wrote:
From what I understand this was never on the test server.


It was in form of A/B test so only 5 out of 10 people visiting Sisi had it.
And there is feedback thread about it and it is not positive.
But some devs just hear what they want to hear not what people are saying.


°°It might be you are right . There was a small scale test, I found this recent thread of CCP Delegate Zero in regards to it:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=340666&p=2

And here are some quotes from the feedback on what to improve (just to say, there was positive feedback, as well):


"...Tool tips needs an ability to adjust delay or just turn off..." (Salpun)


"...the tooltips when hovering over something in the overview seem quite redundant since they mostly show whats on it anyway

I feel that there should be an option to only show tooltips when a key is pressed

edit: I don't believe that the person that needs a tooltip for the little x in the top right corner of a window should be playing eve, sorry ..." (Crazy KSK)


"... I don't know if this is the right place for my comment - but the tool-tips have 100% removed my ability to gather loot-spew from relic and data sites - and I can no longer profit from my expeditions..." (Kenneth Endashi)


" ...Old ones were better, they were smaller, transparent and appeared instantly. ... I think those tooltips should be customisable or there should be possibility to change them to old style..." (Tortat..)


I still have the hope that CCP cares for our feedback. At least now, as the s**t hits the fan.
chumbucket
DUST Expeditionary Team
Good Sax
#502 - 2014-05-15 09:34:03 UTC
OMG how the holyhe** do i shut off the Stupid tooltips its its atrocious!!!!!!!!!!! relic sites and data sites are a complete nightmare you guys ruined that instantly great job ccp!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
you cant fix loot tables but you can do this garbage............. keep piling on the bandaids .......................... turn this junk off its worthless no part of this helps a veteran its hinders us completely good job team fail!
Seriously who thinks this crap up?????? and why do they still work for you
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#503 - 2014-05-15 09:37:01 UTC
Sarka Bathory wrote:
Jayem See wrote:
Also - just as a slightly crass aside - where is the current CSM on this?

Surely their first issue - and yet no word?



This is very sad, indeed. I had a mailexchange with a CSM member ingame on that tooltip-lunacy. The messages I was getting - even if he expressed it more politely - in a nutshell:

1. We should post in the forum, if it makes us feel better. But no matter what feedback CCP gets, they will stick with it, an be it just for "brave" defiance.
2. CSM has not much to say in regards to game changes, and a very limited influence overall.

I hope that point 1. is not true, and that CCP actually does care. I am pretty sure about point 2. meanwhile .... but hey, just a few wasted minutes on voting for the CSM, not an issue.

Point 2 is simpy not true.


CSM members can very easily do this:

1. Calmly review player feedback, extensively test tooltips on there own, and decide if - at least some of them - are really such a gamebreaking feature. If yes, go to point 2.

2. Approach CCP and tell them. If they don't listen, go to point 3.

3. Post on the forums, on their blogs and announce via evemail that CSM is a joke since CCP isn't even listening to simple, reasonable feedback from themselves and the majority of the playerbase. Also announce they'll be resigning en masse since they just had proof that CSM is pointless.


I'm confident CCP will improve tooltips or at least include a turn-off option. But if they don't, and if CSM delegates agree that it's a very bad decision, there ARE things that they can do about it. Just saying.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
chumbucket
DUST Expeditionary Team
Good Sax
#504 - 2014-05-15 09:42:34 UTC
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
Sarka Bathory wrote:
Jayem See wrote:
Also - just as a slightly crass aside - where is the current CSM on this?

Surely their first issue - and yet no word?



This is very sad, indeed. I had a mailexchange with a CSM member ingame on that tooltip-lunacy. The messages I was getting - even if he expressed it more politely - in a nutshell:

1. We should post in the forum, if it makes us feel better. But no matter what feedback CCP gets, they will stick with it, an be it just for "brave" defiance.
2. CSM has not much to say in regards to game changes, and a very limited influence overall.

I hope that point 1. is not true, and that CCP actually does care. I am pretty sure about point 2. meanwhile .... but hey, just a few wasted minutes on voting for the CSM, not an issue.

Point 2 is simpy not true.


CSM members can very easily do this:

1. Calmly review player feedback, extensively test tooltips on there own, and decide if - at least some of them - are really such a gamebreaking feature. If yes, go to point 2.

2. Approach CCP and tell them. If they don't listen, go to point 3.

3. Post on the forums, on their blogs and announce via evemail that CSM is a joke since CCP isn't even listening to simple, reasonable feedback from themselves and the majority of the playerbase. Also announce they'll be resigning en masse since they just had proof that CSM is pointless.


I'm confident CCP will improve tooltips or at least include a turn-off option. But if they don't, and if CSM delegates agree that it's a very bad decision, there ARE things that they can do about it. Just saying.


lol Number 3 gets you kicked off CSM and A lifetime ban------ lern stuff
Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#505 - 2014-05-15 09:49:57 UTC
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
Sarka Bathory wrote:
Jayem See wrote:
Also - just as a slightly crass aside - where is the current CSM on this?

Surely their first issue - and yet no word?



This is very sad, indeed. I had a mailexchange with a CSM member ingame on that tooltip-lunacy. The messages I was getting - even if he expressed it more politely - in a nutshell:

1. We should post in the forum, if it makes us feel better. But no matter what feedback CCP gets, they will stick with it, an be it just for "brave" defiance.
2. CSM has not much to say in regards to game changes, and a very limited influence overall.

I hope that point 1. is not true, and that CCP actually does care. I am pretty sure about point 2. meanwhile .... but hey, just a few wasted minutes on voting for the CSM, not an issue.

Point 2 is simpy not true.


CSM members can very easily do this:

1. Calmly review player feedback, extensively test tooltips on there own, and decide if - at least some of them - are really such a gamebreaking feature. If yes, go to point 2.

2. Approach CCP and tell them. If they don't listen, go to point 3.

3. Post on the forums, on their blogs and announce via evemail that CSM is a joke since CCP isn't even listening to simple, reasonable feedback from themselves and the majority of the playerbase. Also announce they'll be resigning en masse since they just had proof that CSM is pointless.


I'm confident CCP will improve tooltips or at least include a turn-off option. But if they don't, and if CSM delegates agree that it's a very bad decision, there ARE things that they can do about it. Just saying.


and give up on that trip to iceland?
basically if fan fest is telling us anything . Dev don't actually read the forums. you have to go and talk to them in person. This is a stealth boost Icelands failing economy with tourism bid.

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#506 - 2014-05-15 10:12:40 UTC
Penny Ernaga wrote:
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
ViRtUoZone wrote:
From what I understand this was never on the test server.


It was in form of A/B test so only 5 out of 10 people visiting Sisi had it.
And there is feedback thread about it and it is not positive.
But some devs just hear what they want to hear not what people are saying.


°°It might be you are right . There was a small scale test, I found this recent thread of CCP Delegate Zero in regards to it:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=340666&p=2

And here are some quotes from the feedback on what to improve (just to say, there was positive feedback, as well):


"...Tool tips needs an ability to adjust delay or just turn off..." (Salpun)


"...the tooltips when hovering over something in the overview seem quite redundant since they mostly show whats on it anyway

I feel that there should be an option to only show tooltips when a key is pressed

edit: I don't believe that the person that needs a tooltip for the little x in the top right corner of a window should be playing eve, sorry ..." (Crazy KSK)


"... I don't know if this is the right place for my comment - but the tool-tips have 100% removed my ability to gather loot-spew from relic and data sites - and I can no longer profit from my expeditions..." (Kenneth Endashi)


" ...Old ones were better, they were smaller, transparent and appeared instantly. ... I think those tooltips should be customisable or there should be possibility to change them to old style..." (Tortat..)


I still have the hope that CCP cares for our feedback. At least now, as the s**t hits the fan.



Minus points for CCP for pushing another feature from SiSi to TQ way too early without listening to feedback. Come on guys, I know you're better than this. Get your act together.

My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things!

My Website - Blogs, Livestreams & Forums
Marcel Brinalle
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#507 - 2014-05-15 10:16:07 UTC
26 pages, 3 days, right... And probably I log in soon and see same ****** broken explorer experience.

CCP you are a joke. Sure, u made great game - and this game is nothing without playerbase. You behave like this is your sandbox and everybody either does what you want or can go to hell. This game is just empty void without players, remember. 26 pages and no proper acknowledgement, no calming down emotion, what, you sit there and laugh or you don't care at all? Money comes in either way so why bother? You ever heard about something called Public Relations? Or is it completely alient term to you? You destroyed the game for plenty of us. You can't deny it. At least have a tiny bit of courage to acknowledge that and say sorry ffs

And CSM. I didn't want to vote. I believe politicians are same everywhere: once their get their seat, they forget about their voters. But my corpies convinced me (not easily). "They represent players, they are players like you, they feel you". Represent my ass. You proved me right. You just got your positions and one year of a nice title badge and now you are worthless and can't do anything, you're simply non existent in regards to that issue. Typical. Sounds like my first and last election where I bothered and wasted time reading your bs promotional stuff. Enjoy being worthless when explorer community just had their game taken off them during one night. Why bother. Election is over.
Wraith Shardani
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#508 - 2014-05-15 10:26:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Wraith Shardani
Not reading through this thread.

This change is totally game breaking for me, I have decided to cancel subscription on my 2 accounts until this insult to my intelligence is reversed.

Thanks for the good times while they lasted ccp. o/
Mashie Saldana
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#509 - 2014-05-15 10:44:28 UTC
I think we should expand the tooltips with the re-introduction of Clippy.

How to win EVE
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#510 - 2014-05-15 10:46:55 UTC
Clippy wouldn't be completely out of place, this is spreadsheets online after all.

Invalid signature format
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#511 - 2014-05-15 10:55:43 UTC
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
Clippy wouldn't be completely out of place, this is spreadsheets online after all.

err, Doc Fury....

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Penny Ernaga
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#512 - 2014-05-15 10:58:51 UTC
Wraith Shardani wrote:
Not reading through this thread.

This change is totally game breaking for me, I have decided to cancel subscription on my 3 accounts until this insult to my intelligence is reversed.

Thanks for the good times while they lasted ccp. o/


... I am sad that I have to agree, "totally game breaking" hits the nail on its head. My current pilot license expires in like 25 days, no point to renew it if this is not changed.

P.S.: If someone is interested in taking over a pretty maxed out fleet-boosting-alt, drop me a line in case they keep the in-space-viewblockers. ...oh, wait, silly me, fleet fights are obsolete then, not much use for that anymore...
TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#513 - 2014-05-15 11:08:43 UTC
To those unsubbing over a this tiny little nuisance; you will not be missed Lol

My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things!

My Website - Blogs, Livestreams & Forums
Aiyshimin
Shiva Furnace
#514 - 2014-05-15 11:13:20 UTC
These aren't anywhere near as problematic as this whining hints, clearly there is a lot of room for improvements (a bit premature release?) and we really would love to see options for UI stuff like this, but they are already useful in places. Overview is not one of them, they definitely need to show at least the previously available information.

One thing I'd love to see on gate tooltips is sec status of the destination system.

Colman Dietmar
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#515 - 2014-05-15 11:16:04 UTC
So two days later still no fix? Come on, how hard can it be to roll back to previous version? I mean, you did keep the rollback point, right? Right??
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#516 - 2014-05-15 11:19:56 UTC
TigerXtrm wrote:
To those unsubbing over a this tiny little nuisance; you will not be missed Lol

I personally find unsubbing threats a little too dramatic, but it's definitely not a tiny nuisance.

If you PVP regularly, the new overview and in-space tooltips manage to both eliminate useful gameplay options that we had before and further worsen the gameplay by hiding important information.


Also: another downtime went by and still no improvement? Hurry up CCP!

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Kra RA
The Legion of Spoon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#517 - 2014-05-15 11:36:07 UTC
Guys, seriously, fix please tactical overview. All other ships have brackets if i zoom out, can my ship also have bracket? Because if i zoom out, what i do occasionally when undocking id love to see direction my ship is aligning. Arrow pointing out direction of my nose would be perfect, but there probably might be better solutions. Thnks.
Nijaza
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#518 - 2014-05-15 11:36:20 UTC
CCP OMFG THESE TOOLTIPS ARE not harming my playing ability at all.

WTF CCP HOW COULD YOU DO THIS!! Somehow i still managed to do relic/data sites fine

HOLY CRAP, these tool tips are HORRENDOUSLY not an epic fail?

Now the token I'm CANCELLING MY SUBSCRIPTION ( not really)

Seriously what is all this crap

I for one thought the tooltips make this game more approachable for new players. Making the EVE learning curse easier should be an important priority, try and see the larger picture here. oh wait, what am i thinking?!?!

EVE MUST REMAIN CRYPTICALLY COMPLICATED for eternity????

No, it doesn't.

That said I'm not against having a disable feature for the tooltips, or maybe different levels ( limited, default, full, etc). Oh, the predictive mouse-thing is freakin awesome as well.
Bakuhz
NED-Clan
Goonswarm Federation
#519 - 2014-05-15 11:47:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Bakuhz
CCP Delegate Zero wrote:
Hi,

The team is keeping a close eye on this thread (and the others preceding the dev blog), plus other sources of feedback, and we have some work in progress to adjust some aspects and deal with several cases where the new tooltip format is causing problems.

Specifically, we've been looking initially at:


  • 'Mouse-over on icon column in overview'-only as trigger for new tooltip (this actually would also free us to have different tooltips for specific overview columns if there are cases where that is a benefit in general).

  • Some defects with bracket tooltips (including large numbers of brackets breaking tooltips).

  • Opacity of bracket tooltip listing.

  • Bracket tooltip to not trigger in the case of singleton brackets (this should very much help with the scatter loot as well as other cases).

  • Structures with timers and status information (offline, anchoring, etc) showing in the list-form tooltip for brackets.

  • Some starmap tooltip defects.


Bla bla bla OFF SWITCH!!!!!!!!!!

That's not an exhaustive list and we've noted the comments about timing issues, among others, but certainly timing is a tricky balance.

Also, we're not going to ignore the points controlling display of tooltips, to the contrary, but we do think this is something that bears thinking about carefully.

We'll keep taking in all the feedback and use it in our ongoing design work. A major focus of this team is on improving new player experience by generally raising the level of the all-round player experience. We know this approach is going to require our close attention to feedback and significant iterative work.



BLA BLA BLA OFF SWITCH!!!! AND DONT HIDE IT BEHIND THE FORSAKEN DOOR!!!

https://zkillboard.com/character/584042527/
Traein Andedare
Doomheim
#520 - 2014-05-15 11:51:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Traein Andedare
TigerXtrm wrote:
To those unsubbing over a this tiny little nuisance; you will not be missed Lol


They unsub because it sends a message that this tooltip change is **** and it needs to be fixed. More people should be doing it by the way and maybe CCP will get it into their thick skulls

If idiots such as yourself were more prevalent in the community we'd have golden bullets right now