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[Kronos] Pirate Faction Battleships

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epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#2621 - 2014-05-15 00:07:59 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Ok been trying the rattlesnake on SIsI. Actually Quite a decent ship.
The Heavy drones are struggling to hit smaller targets some, but after the Kronos changes are in place, hopefully They will handle better, they also seem to be very popular with everything, they are getting much more aggro than mediums or lights would currently.
not saying that methods of grabbing aggro better than I currently use would yield the same results, I am trying to use them the same way to see what the effect is.

So first impressions, and they are only preliminary.
Using Cruises and ogres /beserkers.
Not seeing wild real world improvements in real power, better sure, but not a quantum improvement. nice is good but not seeing any reason for anyone to be worried.

Drones, sentries still sentries. but the loss of the second dla is unpleasant.
rattlesnake with 4 launchers and overall then the ship feels worse than currently, only an impression but it really feels that one will always fit for max missiles now. so drones WILL suffer.
Damage application of heavies is poor against small fast targets, Eventually get a popping hit, but takes a few cycles. noticeably worse than pre kronos RS light drones.
light drones are poor things now. noticeably worse.

Overall impression, well it's ok still works. not feeling excited at all.

that's about it for now. no conclusions drawn, that is just how it is.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#2622 - 2014-05-15 00:25:05 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
rattlesnake with 4 launchers and overall then the ship feels worse than currently, only an impression but it really feels that one will always fit for max missiles now. so drones WILL suffer.

Did you try the Gecko?

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#2623 - 2014-05-15 01:31:55 UTC
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay.
Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!

The Rules:
4. Personal attacks are prohibited.

Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
KaDa en Bauldry
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2624 - 2014-05-15 03:51:25 UTC
Short question:
Heavies/Geckos are being tried with 2 tracking scripted Omni?

Don't forget about ship insurance before undocking. Don't forget about copy-paste saving before posting.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#2625 - 2014-05-15 04:56:22 UTC
KaDa en Bauldry wrote:
Short question:
Heavies/Geckos are being tried with 2 tracking scripted Omni?

Yes, didn't seem to make a huge difference.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#2626 - 2014-05-15 07:43:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Sgt Ocker
I've just been having another play around on Sisi with the Guristas ships.

Looking at the specs on the new Faction Drone mods, I'm not sure they will be worth the prices (initially at least) people will ask for them.
Faction Drone Damage Amplifier 0.8% better than T2. Unless they are cheap may not be worth the effort

Sentient Omni Tracking Enhancer at 0.5% better than T2 Omni and having to drop a damage mod for it? Yeah not sure about that, especially as the available versions, Sentient and Officer, will likely have hefty prices attached. Sentient mods could be a buff for drone regions, although the attributes of the modules is likely to see low prices - or a market full of so-so mods no-one is prepared to pay the high price of.

I've never seen an Officer drone upgrade mod on a market so the extra attributes offered (the best of which are pretty good) will be so expensive as to only be affordable by the richest and be fit to Shield Supers. It is a nice buff to shield supers, as long as drop rates are there to make them available


Not sure about the skill requirements for the new T2 mods.
T2 omni tracking link, Drone Sharpshooting 5
T2 onmi tracking enhancer, Drone Sharpshooting 4.
Seems the one most likely to reduce your Dps is easier to train for. Making both available for the same level would be better. Either both Sharpshooting 5 or both 4.
Unless of course the lowslot mod is considered inferior (even with better attributes) over the current mid slot module, therefore easier to train for and fit.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Barton Breau
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#2627 - 2014-05-15 07:49:16 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
I've just been having another play around on Sisi with the Guristas ships.

Looking at the specs on the new Faction Drone mods, I'm not sure they will be worth the prices (initially at least) people will ask for them.
Faction Drone Damage Amplifier 0.8% better than T2. Unless they are cheap may not be worth the effort

Sentient Omni Tracking Enhancer at 0.5% better than T2 Omni and having to drop a damage mod for it? Yeah not sure about that, especially as the available versions, Sentient and Officer, will likely have hefty prices attached. Sentient mods could be a buff for drone regions, although the attributes of the modules is likely to see low prices - or a market full of so-so mods no-one is prepared to pay the high price of.

I've never seen an Officer drone upgrade mod on a market so the extra attributes offered (the best of which are pretty good) will be so expensive as to only be affordable by the richest and be fit to Shield Supers. It is a nice buff to shield supers, as long as drop rates are there to make them available


Heh, most people did expect just a minor difference (since we already have a "navy" bonus on dda2, and the officer is 26%), but 0.8% is quite entertaining.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#2628 - 2014-05-15 08:15:04 UTC
Barton Breau wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
I've just been having another play around on Sisi with the Guristas ships.

Looking at the specs on the new Faction Drone mods, I'm not sure they will be worth the prices (initially at least) people will ask for them.
Faction Drone Damage Amplifier 0.8% better than T2. Unless they are cheap may not be worth the effort

Sentient Omni Tracking Enhancer at 0.5% better than T2 Omni and having to drop a damage mod for it? Yeah not sure about that, especially as the available versions, Sentient and Officer, will likely have hefty prices attached. Sentient mods could be a buff for drone regions, although the attributes of the modules is likely to see low prices - or a market full of so-so mods no-one is prepared to pay the high price of.

I've never seen an Officer drone upgrade mod on a market so the extra attributes offered (the best of which are pretty good) will be so expensive as to only be affordable by the richest and be fit to Shield Supers. It is a nice buff to shield supers, as long as drop rates are there to make them available


Heh, most people did expect just a minor difference (since we already have a "navy" bonus on dda2, and the officer is 26%), but 0.8% is quite entertaining.

NICE - Just noticed the countdown timer for reload on RHML.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#2629 - 2014-05-15 09:24:50 UTC
While I am loving the Rattlesnake on SiSi so far(hey, turns out cruise missiles didn't stop hitting frigates, who knew?), I am confused as to why the "Giving Drones an Assist" changes are not up yet...

Are they not actually in the same build? Are they being delayed along with the economic changes?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#2630 - 2014-05-15 09:34:32 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:

Drones, sentries still sentries. but the loss of the second dla is unpleasant.
rattlesnake with 4 launchers and overall then the ship feels worse than currently, only an impression but it really feels that one will always fit for max missiles now. so drones WILL suffer.
Damage application of heavies is poor against small fast targets, Eventually get a popping hit, but takes a few cycles. noticeably worse than pre kronos RS light drones.
light drones are poor things now. noticeably worse.

Overall impression, well it's ok still works. not feeling excited at all.

that's about it for now. no conclusions drawn, that is just how it is.


You need to stop using the feels, and start using the thinks.

If you want to snipe fit it, and put 4 Cruise launchers on there, it will do more dps than presently, with zero loss of functionality. The Rattlesnake has only gained options.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
M Key
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#2631 - 2014-05-15 10:26:44 UTC  |  Edited by: M Key
So, popped on the test server, and even with a garbage fit and skills it does 1000 dps on paper.

5x meta 4 cruise launchers, T1 scourge ammo
2x Rigor and 1x Flare rigs
3x T2 DDA
3x T2 BCU

Gecko for drone

I encourage others with actual proper skills for a missile/drone ship to go test fit it. CPU is very tight, but needs to be checked with a complete T2 fit.

as far as killing frigates and cruisers? Heavy drones with less than perfect skills will take two shots to kill a normal frigate. One shot seems to miss as they are firing right as they pop off MWD. 2nd shot murders the frigate as even low damage hits are more than their EHP. Cruisers are also super quick to kill. again its a matter of they do lots of damage with all the bonuses against low EHP target, so it doesn't even matter if they get good hits. So for PvE, chuck any old heavy drone out the bay doors and watch the explosions. Gecko is even better at this, but seems to pull aggro from all the things.

Edit:
Thinking on it, It really needs 66 more CPU to balance out the extra launcher that is expected. 88 more CPU would cover the extra launcher if T2 Torpedo launchers are used as the baseline, but I'm not sure thats wise.

Also maybe I'm the only one, but moving a mid to a low would be... nice. Makes for more choices, while not really taking anything away. Shouldn't make it any more powerful either.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#2632 - 2014-05-15 11:33:47 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
I've just been having another play around on Sisi with the Guristas ships.

Looking at the specs on the new Faction Drone mods, I'm not sure they will be worth the prices (initially at least) people will ask for them.
Faction Drone Damage Amplifier 0.8% better than T2. Unless they are cheap may not be worth the effort.


If they have lower fitting requirements they'll be worth it.
Crazy KSK
Tsunami Cartel
#2633 - 2014-05-15 16:18:14 UTC
currently all new DDAs have the same fitting as t2 but the damage bonus is 25,8% compared to t2 23%
looking at the officer DDAs I think the new faction ones should have 20-25 cpu cost instead of 30

Quote CCP Fozzie: ... The days of balance and forget are over.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#2634 - 2014-05-15 16:35:19 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:

Drones, sentries still sentries. but the loss of the second dla is unpleasant.
rattlesnake with 4 launchers and overall then the ship feels worse than currently, only an impression but it really feels that one will always fit for max missiles now. so drones WILL suffer.
Damage application of heavies is poor against small fast targets, Eventually get a popping hit, but takes a few cycles. noticeably worse than pre kronos RS light drones.
light drones are poor things now. noticeably worse.

Overall impression, well it's ok still works. not feeling excited at all.

that's about it for now. no conclusions drawn, that is just how it is.


You need to stop using the feels, and start using the thinks.

If you want to snipe fit it, and put 4 Cruise launchers on there, it will do more dps than presently, with zero loss of functionality. The Rattlesnake has only gained options.



Last point first. Ah so no loss of functionality whatsoever.
Ok there are no changes to the drone system whatsoever so you are right.Roll
^^^ sarcasm^^^
Only true if one does not use drones, otherwise a complete misrepresentation.

The drone weapons system has lost massive functionality, you may not use drones, or you may prefer missiles, or they do not matter to you, or you can do things 50 other ways, it does not matter, the effects are clear, concise, and quantifiable. And a major loss of functionality.

Moving on regards Feel And other words that you do not like.
You are aware that these are first Impressions and not a detailed analysis? It does say so look! "First impression"

Notice the word "IMPRESSION,"Roll

I am sure that all the new users who buy the rattlesnake, after reading all about the wonderful DPS will fit them up and gain an IMPRESSION of the ship and decide whether the ship is a worthwhile upgrade. They may or may not regret fitting rigs and being locked into it.
As they fly it they may be FEELING that it is less pleasant to use now than before, and the extra DPS will not make up for that, for many. A ship is more than pure raw numbers as you well know.

I posted my first IMPRESSION. See above, I actually think it is OK, not great but passable. Oh extra DPS thanks.....


*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#2635 - 2014-05-15 17:09:10 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
epicurus ataraxia wrote:


Last point first. Ah so no loss of functionality whatsoever.
Ok there are no changes to the drone system whatsoever so you are right.Roll
^^^ sarcasm^^^
Only true if one does not use drones, otherwise a complete misrepresentation.

The drone weapons system has lost massive functionality, you may not use drones, or you may prefer missiles, or they do not matter to you, or you can do things 50 other ways, it does not matter, the effects are clear, concise, and quantifiable. And a major loss of functionality.


Not if the "loss" of light drones is more than made up for by the vastly improved missile system, no.

Which it is. Nevermind that you'd be using sentries to shoot frigates in the first place, so it's a complete mischaracterization to begin with.

It's only a net loss if you *Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal. used light drones, heavy ewar drones, and torpedoes in a passive tank fit.

In just about any other scenario it's a net gain.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#2636 - 2014-05-15 17:12:30 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:


Last point first. Ah so no loss of functionality whatsoever.
Ok there are no changes to the drone system whatsoever so you are right.Roll
^^^ sarcasm^^^
Only true if one does not use drones, otherwise a complete misrepresentation.

The drone weapons system has lost massive functionality, you may not use drones, or you may prefer missiles, or they do not matter to you, or you can do things 50 other ways, it does not matter, the effects are clear, concise, and quantifiable. And a major loss of functionality.


Not if the "loss" of light drones is more than made up for by the vastly improved missile system, no.

Which it is. Nevermind that you'd be using sentries to shoot frigates in the first place, so it's a complete mischaracterization to begin with.

It's only a net loss if you *Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal. used light drones, heavy ewar drones, and torpedoes in a passive tank fit.

In just about any other scenario it's a net gain.


*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.

Not everyone is singing the praises of the rattlesnake unreservedly
Some Hate it, I personally feel that is an overstatement, but I respect their opinions.
Some love it, I personally think they are more focused on raw figures than real world use and YES feel. I may not agree with them but I respect their right to have an opinion.
Some are unimpressed and feel it is a wasted opportunity. With Minor tweaks to help heavies apply damage better, it would transform this ship. And it would still be a balanced vessel. It is my opinion, it deserves the same respect.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
XxRTEKxX
256th Shadow Wing
Phantom-Recon
#2637 - 2014-05-15 17:33:57 UTC  |  Edited by: XxRTEKxX
I dont like missile bonus on the RS being in Gallente, Shield Caldari and Drone bonus as Role. It should be drone bonus Gallente, Missile Caldari and Role being shield bonus.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#2638 - 2014-05-15 17:37:34 UTC
XxRTEKxX wrote:
I dont like missile bonus on the RS being in Gallente, Shield Caldari and Drone bonus as Role. It should be drone bonus Gallente, Missile Caldari and Role being shield bonus.


Pretty sure the reason why that's not happening was addressed in Rise's second post.

Nope, I was wrong, his fourth post.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4470440#post4470440

So that's a big "nope".

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#2639 - 2014-05-15 17:40:58 UTC
XxRTEKxX wrote:
I dont like missile bonus on the RS being in Gallente, Shield Caldari and Drone bonus as Role. It should be drone bonus Gallente, Missile Caldari and Role being shield bonus.



I sympathise, but apparently CCP Rise just could not get it to work that way in a reasonable manner, he responded at the beginning of the thread.

Quote:
I wish there was a way to avoid it but there really isn't. If we put the drone damage bonus on the Gallente skill and put missile damage in the role bonus (as it was before) it would mean people were basically required to have level 5 of the Gallente skill to use the ship, which we don't want.
It's also not like Gallente never use missiles. Until recently all the Roden ships used them.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
XxRTEKxX
256th Shadow Wing
Phantom-Recon
#2640 - 2014-05-15 17:58:58 UTC  |  Edited by: XxRTEKxX
Then they shouldn't change the ship except tweak it as it is now. I dont like the changes, and dont like the pull away from the lore with its new Gallente bonus.

I'd actually be ok if it switched from a missile boat to a hybrid platform. Calldari amd Gallente both share Hybrids in common, so making the Gallente bonus a Hybrid bonus would make more sense than making it a missile bonus.