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CCP isn't it about time you consolidated the missile skills?

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Blastcaps Madullier
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#1 - 2014-05-14 18:46:51 UTC
with every version of turret based weapons systems, hybrid, projectiles and lasers, they all have small, medium and large to train before you get to the specilisations like blaster specialisation, railgun etc, so how come with missiles people are forced to learn the light missiles skill before they can take the specialisation or rockets?
How come I can train small hybrids and gain access to both small blasters and rails, yet missiles I still have to train BOTH light missiles and rockets to be able to use either?

Wouldn't it be simpler and save people training addition skills, by just consolidating the skills down some?

Examples:

Light Launchers - Allows access/useage of BOTH T1 light missiles and rockets
Medium Launchers - Allows access to T1 Heavy missiles and Heavy assualt missiles
Heavy Launchers - Allows access to Torpedo's and Cruise missiles

This saves people HAVING to train an additional 3 skills just to receive the same benefits that you would get if you trained for hybrids/projectiles/Lasers?
Joe Boirele
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2014-05-14 19:02:24 UTC
It'd be great if they unified missile and gun training time.

Enemies are just friends who stab you in the front.

"We will not go quietly into the night! We will not vanish without a fight!"
Arronicus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#3 - 2014-05-14 19:15:47 UTC
This really makes sense, considering for 3 out of 4 races, there are a variety of very good, missile using ships. It's already enough for a hurdle for players to have to train up a whole new set of support skills, but to have to train up a new skill for every single type of missile system, definitely seems a bit ridiculous.

The part that I think is the most ridiculous though, is capital weaponry. Capital hybrid turrets covers capital blasters and rails. Capital projectile covers artillery and autocannons. Capital energy covers beams and pulse. All are 7x skills. but capital missiles? Broken into two skills, Citadel torpedos, and citadel cruise, both of which are, yes, 7x, doubling the weapon training time for the already defunct phoenix which, in CCP's latest attempts to buff it, still will not be able to do full damage to carriers. "But what about the naglfar?" It doesn't have launcher slots anymore, because CCP decided it was easier to fix that dread by losing the launchers, than fixing citadel missiles.
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#4 - 2014-05-14 20:10:40 UTC
This would make sense.

And to be fair and to keep whatever need ccp had in mind for longer trains have the class skill be the longer of the 2 if that was some goal they had in mind is a caveat I'd be open too. the now small launcher skill would be lights 10 days for example.

I am sure the gun users would say but the supports we have as ther usual gripe. I'd grant them that if not for the fact missile users learn real quick all those missile support skills while not required to be 4 or 5 by the skill req's are actually required to have missiles suck less for actual use. Missile users don't sneak out of training here. Well they do if they want missile performance to be awful lol. I know from my missile use they only get effective when you 5 out quite a few skills at any rate.
Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication
TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
#5 - 2014-05-14 20:14:25 UTC
While it would make sense, it would be a bit out of step with their current habit of splitting skills apart.

Still, its not as if we can launch torpedoes from light missile launchers. Roll The change (and reimbursed SP) would be welcome.

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Zepheros Naeonis
TinklePee
#6 - 2014-05-14 20:19:31 UTC
This is something that should have been changed a long time ago.
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#7 - 2014-05-14 20:22:28 UTC
Haruko Togenada
The Order of the Burning Nuclear Reactor
#8 - 2014-05-14 20:49:10 UTC
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci wrote:
+1 here
Hopelesshobo
Hoboland
#9 - 2014-05-14 20:51:55 UTC
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4528549

+1 even with a failure to use search

Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012.
Blastcaps Madullier
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#10 - 2014-05-14 20:53:39 UTC
Petrified wrote:
While it would make sense, it would be a bit out of step with their current habit of splitting skills apart.

Still, its not as if we can launch torpedoes from light missile launchers. Roll The change (and reimbursed SP) would be welcome.


yes but it the way I'm suggesting is how they should have done it in the first place in keeping with the way the rest of the weaponary is done in eve in terms of training, ie same rules for training missiles as turret based guns are done.
and anyone moaning about people being "given free skill points" rightly people SHOULD NOT have HAD to have spent the time/training just to do what turret based systems already have, and the fact they have done so also means their entitled to having the refunded to spend else where.

Zepheros Naeonis wrote:
This is something that should have been changed a long time ago.


Zeph I agree, this it LONG overdue :)
Blastcaps Madullier
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#11 - 2014-05-14 21:00:00 UTC
Hopelesshobo wrote:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4528549

+1 even with a failure to use search


lol, it's probley been better put and more detailed than this post :) but either way, having both threads bouncing up near the top of the features and ideas part of the forum MAY just lead to CCP finaly fixing this issue, not there aren't a lot of other issues with missile systems, some of which ccp ARE trying to address :) (like the fact the new mordus ships have a increased missile velocity with a decreased flight time, ie gets there faster and still goes the same range (Ish) lol) and tbt
Gigan Amilupar
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2014-05-14 21:00:36 UTC
Presently it doesn't bother me so much that missile skills are split the way they are, but I am bothered by the fact that not only do equal size missiles have different training times, but the time to train all weapons in a class is considerably longer (i.e. all "small" missiles). For example, rockets are a 1x skill, but light missiles are a 2x skill. This means it takes 4-ish days to train rockets to V but takes closer to 9 to train light missiles to V (with my present attributes+implants ect, admittedly). This seems strange to me, and is imo a little unbalanced for new players. Picked Caldari? Better be prepared to spend 3x as much time training light missiles and rockets to V as it would take to train small hybrids to V (R+LM -> V is 256K+512K SP = 768K SP, while SH -> V is only 256K SP). I don't know if this was done to keep missiles from being too ubiquitous, but it seems like a bad way to balance a weapon system. I get wanting to encourage specialization in exchange for time spent, but it's kind of dialing it up to 11 for missiles.

Either split turrets or consolidate missiles, but at the very least equalize training time inside of respective missile classes (i.e. light missiles becoming a 1x skill).

P.S. You don't need to train light missiles before you can train rocket spec and vice-versa, but you do need missile launcher operation.
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#13 - 2014-05-14 21:07:50 UTC
You're going the wrong way around:

Currently, gunnery is an excessive, SP-absorbing field to invest SP into. To get decent gunnery skills with a pve-ship for example, you need small lasers, med lasers, large lasers V, specs to IV for ALL of those, and a bunch of support skills. (Think it was around 8mil or so total before you can decently use those gunnery skills).

Missiles on the other hand are wonderful, they require a fraction of the training. You can skip nearly all missile skills and only level up cruise missiles to V with spec, while heavies only reqire level III.

So in order to equalize those two, either use heavy missile spec IV as a prereq for cruise missile spec I - or drop the small-med-large-progression for turrets.

Currently, SP-wise missiles are favorable by far.
Blastcaps Madullier
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#14 - 2014-05-14 21:17:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Blastcaps Madullier
Lloyd Roses wrote:

You can skip nearly all missile skills and only level up cruise missiles to V with spec, while heavies only reqire level III.


Maybe to some degree you can on the MAIN missile skills ie can skil say rockets if your aiming towards cruise missiles for example, however you CAN NOT avoid training the support skills, well not unless you want your HEAVY MISSLES for only being capable of hitting out to 30k IF YOUR LUCKY... (and I know this back from the early days when I was still using a drake a lot for things and my heavys did in deed only go out to 30k at the time :)
Gawain Edmond
Khanid Bureau of Industry
#15 - 2014-05-14 21:20:51 UTC
this again.... bring forth a search option and perma bans for anyone who dosen't use it!!
HiddenPorpoise
Jarlhettur's Drop
United Federation of Conifers
#16 - 2014-05-14 21:21:29 UTC
Lloyd Roses wrote:
Currently, gunnery is an excessive, SP-absorbing field to invest SP into. To get decent gunnery skills with a pve-ship for example, you need small lasers, med lasers, large lasers V, specs to IV for ALL of those, and a bunch of support skills. (Think it was around 8mil or so total before you can decently use those gunnery skills).

They changed that over a year ago.
Blastcaps Madullier
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#17 - 2014-05-14 22:25:30 UTC
Idealy long term I'd like to see all the weapon systems consolidated into one "tree" as it were, maybe called weaponary(For want of a better name :) so instead of 2 seperate skill catagories we have one, also looking at some of the missile skills, I also cant see why some of them can not be rolled into the similar skill for gunnery, ie rapid launch into rapid fire (Maybe rename the skill Rapid application?) or Target Navigation Prediction and Motion Prediction etc? :)
Blastcaps Madullier
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#18 - 2014-05-15 00:56:49 UTC
As for the other issues with launchers, think someone should start a thread Labled "Missiles - Current issues - Fix suggestions" or something like that and post what issues exactly each diff missle type has, and also on the thread a suggestion for a solution to said issue, it maybe a case of CCP doesn't really have a idea of how to fix missiles properly (hell look how long it took to get hyrbids properly fixed) so people throwing ideas out to them in a CONSOLIDATED THREAD means the info for the devs is easy to find fast and also gives them MORE ideas of possible fixes they could try, obliously some of the issues I suspect are liable to be limits placed by the coding of the game more than anything else, or exacerbate some of the under lying issues.
Linkxsc162534
Silent Scourge
#19 - 2014-05-15 03:09:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Linkxsc162534
Lloyd Roses wrote:
You're going the wrong way around:

Currently, gunnery is an excessive, SP-absorbing field to invest SP into. To get decent gunnery skills with a PVP-ship for example, you need small lasers, med lasers, large lasers V, specs to IV for ALL of those, and a bunch of support skills. (Think it was around 8mil or so total before you can decently use those gunnery skills).

Missiles on the other hand are wonderful, they require a fraction of the training. You can skip nearly all missile skills and only level up cruise missiles to V with spec, while heavies only require level III.

So in order to equalize those two, either use heavy missile spec IV as a prereq for cruise missile spec I - or drop the small-med-large-progression for turrets.

Currently, SP-wise missiles are favorable, when training for PVP fits. Which ironically, missiles are the least liked PVP option


Fixed your post. You don't NEED T2 guns or missiles for missioning. They only ships I can honestly say you "NEED" them on are marauders, and mainly the golem (javelin torps are a necessity) T2 guns are the realm of PVP boats primarily because they're cheaper than faction weaponry, and they get T2 ammos. In most minmax PVE fits though, faction guns are much better than T2
Battlingbean
Wings of the Dark Portal
#20 - 2014-05-15 04:30:27 UTC
No. Why does everything have to be the same?
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