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Proposal: Liquid Ozone consumption of Cyno correlates to jumping Mass
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Cerlestes
Veldspar Trading Company.
Veldspar Trading Alliance.
#1 - 2014-05-14 18:38:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Cerlestes
Hey guys.

I've just come up with this idea and I really like its implications; I couldn't come up with any downsides aside from the desired ones yet. Please comment if you like it or have an idea how to improve it! Thanks.

What?

  1. Make the consumption of Liquid Ozone on the ship running a Cynosural Field Generator correlate to the mass that is jumping to it, so that a Frigate-sized ship could only carry enough LO to cyno in 2 Carriers or 1 Titan at max.
  2. Add a new ship class with a few-hundred-percent bonus to this, or give this bonus to existing Covops-specialized ships.
  3. Remove the initial Liquid Ozone consumption as well as 10 minute cycle completely and/or reduce the latter to reasonable times like 30s.


Why?

  1. This would accomplish that moving huge quantities of capitals would be a pain in the arse and thus fight the current problem with force projection of capital ships, while maintaining or even improving the experience for smaller gangs due to same or lower LO consumption and faster responding cynos = no more dead cynofrigs for a single capital.
  2. Makes moving large capital fleets a little more expensive, although this is pretty much neglectable.
  3. On average the size of cyno-ships would increase (Cyno-Megathron anyone?), which allows for a bit more PVP and would be another ISK-sink that particularily hits larger fleets, as intended.


Possible problems

  • Might make it impossible to save single carriers or titans that accidentally jumped somewhere. Although I like the idea here to force most carriers in such cap escalations to fit cynos in order to bring in more people.
  • A Frigate doing the initial cyno and then a Carrier doing the second one while refueling it's cargo all the time would retain the status quo with adding an extra step. A cooldown timer to the cyno module could help fix this by simply not allowing to cyno in more than x mass during the cooldown timer. This timer could have the current 10 minutes cycle (5 on covops).



See you in space,
cerl
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#2 - 2014-05-14 18:51:52 UTC
So...instead of jumping everything to one cyno, you now need to jump in a wave of carrier cynos first?

This solves nothing.
Cerlestes
Veldspar Trading Company.
Veldspar Trading Alliance.
#3 - 2014-05-14 18:57:22 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
So...instead of jumping everything to one cyno, you now need to jump in a wave of carrier cynos first?

This solves nothing.


Thanks for commenting. I've added it to the OP along with a possible solution.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#4 - 2014-05-14 19:10:35 UTC
Cerlestes wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
So...instead of jumping everything to one cyno, you now need to jump in a wave of carrier cynos first?

This solves nothing.


Thanks for commenting. I've added it to the OP along with a possible solution.


A possible solution that is incredibly easy to get around, simply by having more than one carrier light it's cyno...



Why do you think BR-5 was a bad thing, and why do you want to stop it from happening again?
Cerlestes
Veldspar Trading Company.
Veldspar Trading Alliance.
#5 - 2014-05-14 19:15:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Cerlestes
Danika Princip wrote:

A possible solution that is incredibly easy to get around, simply by having more than one carrier light it's cyno...

Why do you think BR-5 was a bad thing, and why do you want to stop it from happening again?


If it was so easy to get around, it wouldn't stop things as BR- from happening. I certainly don't want to not have that happen, but at the same time I want to fight the ease at which large nullsec entities can drop on smaller ones, thus creating the current political landscape in EVE. I want my 2006-2008 nullsec back Roll

Also I don't think it's too easy to get around. You'd have to coordinate a lot more, sure, basing on how many ships you want to bring in, while it certainly wouldn't stop you from doing so.

Another side effect might be that this makes Titans more powerful again, as they could maybe wipe away cyno-carriers before the fleet behind them could jump in.
Zepheros Naeonis
TinklePee
#6 - 2014-05-14 20:22:07 UTC
1. Cynosural Field generation literally has nothing to do with the mass of the ship creating the Cyno. It's a point that jump drives lock-on too. This is really all that needs to be said about this.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#7 - 2014-05-14 20:24:58 UTC
The ease of working around your proposed fix is just proof that it wouldn't work, and thus shouldn't have any dev time wasted on it.

You don't have to co-ordinate beyond 'Danika, jump first, light your cyno. Five more cyno carriers X up, you jump second'. That's it. How is that going to make co-ordination harder? Hell, even if it does, does that not actively punish smaller groups trying to use their own caps?

Carriers can easily be set up to tank a doomsday. And don't those things take time to fire? Either way, you're not going to stop a carrier jumping to the first cyno from lighting the second.

It would make titans more powerful though, you're right. Not in the sense you mean though, purely in the sense that you'd need several cyno ships to drop a hundred dreads on a lone one.



And surely, as a member of a CFC alliance (like me!), you're part of the problem?
Cerlestes
Veldspar Trading Company.
Veldspar Trading Alliance.
#8 - 2014-05-14 20:36:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Cerlestes
Danika Princip wrote:
The ease of working around your proposed fix is just proof that it wouldn't work, and thus shouldn't have any dev time wasted on it.


You know, the whole point of a thread on a forum is to discuss something - especially in this subforum. I'm not demanding CCP to implement or even pick up on what I suggested in the OP. I've posted it so that we can work on improving this idea to a point where CCP might think about something like this; or come up with something completely different but related to this problem.

So please, be a bit more constructive in your future postings. For example start explaining to me please, why you want to keep this stupid mechanic of having a single player being able to bring in 255 of his friends in the biggest ships this game knows, all at the same time? I find that utterly stupid and my experience over the last 8 years, especially (!) as a part of the NC and CFC and with 6 of those years spend in nullsec exclusively, proves my point - at least to my eyes.


Zepheros Naeonis wrote:
1. Cynosural Field generation literally has nothing to do with the mass of the ship creating the Cyno. It's a point that jump drives lock-on too. This is really all that needs to be said about this.


CCP could change this tho. Like say that the LO consumed during the jump is somehow used to wrap space and support the capital ship with it's jump. More mass jumping would require more LO. This is nothing but a bit of text that can be changed ;)
RoAnnon
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2014-05-14 20:41:56 UTC
Zepheros Naeonis wrote:
1. Cynosural Field generation literally has nothing to do with the mass of the ship creating the Cyno. It's a point that jump drives lock-on too. This is really all that needs to be said about this.


Agreed. The Cyno Field is a beacon that the jump drive can lock onto as a destination. This proposal is akin to having the flashlights the guy at the airport uses to wave jets over to their parking places drain the battery faster just because it's a 747 being waved in, rather than a Lear Jetstream.

So, you're a bounty hunter. No, that ain't it at all. Then what are you? I'm a bounty hunter.

Broadcast4Reps

Eve Vegas 2015 Pub Crawl Group 9

Houston EVE Meet
Cerlestes
Veldspar Trading Company.
Veldspar Trading Alliance.
#10 - 2014-05-14 20:46:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Cerlestes
RoAnnon wrote:

Agreed. The Cyno Field is a beacon that the jump drive can lock onto as a destination. This proposal is akin to having the flashlights the guy at the airport uses to wave jets over to their parking places drain the battery faster just because it's a 747 being waved in, rather than a Lear Jetstream.


Are you really considering a pulsing light to be the same or act in a similiar way as an apparatus utilized in FTL space travel? I'm not. Have a look at the edit of my previous post.
RoAnnon
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2014-05-14 21:18:13 UTC
Cerlestes wrote:
RoAnnon wrote:

Agreed. The Cyno Field is a beacon that the jump drive can lock onto as a destination. This proposal is akin to having the flashlights the guy at the airport uses to wave jets over to their parking places drain the battery faster just because it's a 747 being waved in, rather than a Lear Jetstream.


Are you really considering a pulsing light to be the same or act in a similiar way as an apparatus utilized in FTL space travel? I'm not. Have a look at the edit of my previous post.


Granted the analogy breaks down easily, but essentially all the cyno field is is a big bright "HEY OVER HERE" call to the Jump Drives in the capital ships. It's the topes in those ships that affect the movement of the ships, not the LO lighting the beacon.

So, you're a bounty hunter. No, that ain't it at all. Then what are you? I'm a bounty hunter.

Broadcast4Reps

Eve Vegas 2015 Pub Crawl Group 9

Houston EVE Meet
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#12 - 2014-05-14 21:26:05 UTC
RoAnnon wrote:
Zepheros Naeonis wrote:
1. Cynosural Field generation literally has nothing to do with the mass of the ship creating the Cyno. It's a point that jump drives lock-on too. This is really all that needs to be said about this.


Agreed. The Cyno Field is a beacon that the jump drive can lock onto as a destination. This proposal is akin to having the flashlights the guy at the airport uses to wave jets over to their parking places drain the battery faster just because it's a 747 being waved in, rather than a Lear Jetstream.

They can wink only one in at a time, so let's do this instead? And it depends on the size of the jet how quick it can find its parking lot. So there we have the mass influence on how quick in succession a cyno can be used for jumping. Then change that depending on the size, like if the waver is on foot, on a segway or little car to get back to the runway to wave planes in.

And there we are, back at cyno bandwidth and cyno sizes. Big smile

Sovereignty and Population

New Mining Mechanics
Cerlestes
Veldspar Trading Company.
Veldspar Trading Alliance.
#13 - 2014-05-15 16:38:03 UTC
Abrazzar wrote:

They can wink only one in at a time, so let's do this instead? And it depends on the size of the jet how quick it can find its parking lot. So there we have the mass influence on how quick in succession a cyno can be used for jumping. Then change that depending on the size, like if the waver is on foot, on a segway or little car to get back to the runway to wave planes in.

And there we are, back at cyno bandwidth and cyno sizes. Big smile


I really like this idea as well :) Thanks for contributing!

As a side note: Yes, I know how cynos are supposed to work right now if this was real life.