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Dev Blog: Tiptoe Through the Tooltips

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Youkai Tengu
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#421 - 2014-05-14 18:02:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Youkai Tengu
Love the tooltips as it shows hotkeys, but I still have one major problem with it - it pops up places I don't want it to pop up! I only want it in the - normally - left sidebar and NOT in the overview or anywhere else related to controlling the ship or actions related to the ship or fleet. I was really annoyed when it popped up when I was pointing at enemies and objects I didn't have in my overview. It's like having a telemarketer call you in the middle of a shooting in a war, informing you about the capabilities of the enemy's t-shirt.

TLDR: Let us have it as an option, as it is very nice in a relaxed stage of playing, but please let me turn it off when I'm in more stressing situations, like roaming around in null. It makes me a bit pissed, sadly.

Edit: Options for what it should tip about would also be nice.
Jayem See
Perkone
Caldari State
#422 - 2014-05-14 18:09:39 UTC
Actually agree with that Youkai - I am "bads" at using shortcuts so for that they are awesome.

Still need an ON/OFF switch though.

Aaaaaaand relax.
Barbelo Valentinian
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#423 - 2014-05-14 18:14:14 UTC
In general, I think the tooltips are a great idea, but ... when you have tooltips in a game, you need to have the ability to adjust the delay, and turn them off too, and preferably selectively.

I should think the only tooltips a vet would like to keep are the ones on modules (both in Fitting and in Space), most of the others are only really useful for the NPE.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#424 - 2014-05-14 18:19:05 UTC
Barbelo Valentinian wrote:
In general, I think the tooltips are a great idea, but ... when you have tooltips in a game, you need to have the ability to adjust the delay, and turn them off too, and preferably selectively.

I should think the only tooltips a vet would like to keep are the ones on modules (both in Fitting and in Space), most of the others are only really useful for the NPE.


I would add that not only are the majority of the tooltips only useful for brand new players, they are actively harmful to everyone else.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Quintessen
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#425 - 2014-05-14 18:25:37 UTC
Good work overall on the tool tips. I'm hoping there will be continued iteration on this each release. Please, please, please continue with this.

I'm hoping we see the some of the ideas presented at Fanfest in the next few months.

Some further ideas for information at a glance:

- For items in the NEOCOM that blink for notifications, please put what made them blink in the tool tip.
- For stations in the overview please list their services and owning corp and faction.
- For the sun, please list the numbers of celestial objects in that system (or could be done in an info panel). Specifically ice belts, ore belts, planets and moons.
- For asteroids and ice in space that we've scanned please place the last scanned amount (and m3 for that amount) in a tool tip.
Lisa Gentilette
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#426 - 2014-05-14 18:27:28 UTC
Quintessen wrote:
Good work overall on the tool tips. I'm hoping there will be continued iteration on this each release. Please, please, please continue with this.

I'm hoping we see the some of the ideas presented at Fanfest in the next few months.

Some further ideas for information at a glance:

- For items in the NEOCOM that blink for notifications, please put what made them blink in the tool tip.
- For stations in the overview please list their services and owning corp and faction.
- For the sun, please list the numbers of celestial objects in that system (or could be done in an info panel). Specifically ice belts, ore belts, planets and moons.
- For asteroids and ice in space that we've scanned please place the last scanned amount (and m3 for that amount) in a tool tip.



What!?
You need more tooltips?

>.>
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#427 - 2014-05-14 18:29:47 UTC
Lisa Gentilette wrote:
Quintessen wrote:
Good work overall on the tool tips. I'm hoping there will be continued iteration on this each release. Please, please, please continue with this.

I'm hoping we see the some of the ideas presented at Fanfest in the next few months.

Some further ideas for information at a glance:

- For items in the NEOCOM that blink for notifications, please put what made them blink in the tool tip.
- For stations in the overview please list their services and owning corp and faction.
- For the sun, please list the numbers of celestial objects in that system (or could be done in an info panel). Specifically ice belts, ore belts, planets and moons.
- For asteroids and ice in space that we've scanned please place the last scanned amount (and m3 for that amount) in a tool tip.



What!?
You need more tooltips?

>.>


Yo dawg...

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
nitro oxide
Risk Breakers
SONS of BANE
#428 - 2014-05-14 18:39:03 UTC
One small patch for eve, one giant leap back-wards for capsuleers!!!

A (This is the letter A), B (This is the letter B), ....[ X ](This is the close the window button!!!!)

Gets old quick doesn't it!! EvilEvilEvil

-1 For assuming everyone is ether a Noob (That if that is what this was intended for ?) If I was on a trial account and that **** popped up every time I moved the mouse I would be put off v quickly or That Everyone who plays eve has had one to many Quafe and brought on Alzheimer's over night?

Please ether make this a turn on/off button or the very least get a choice of time delay option.
Marcel Brinalle
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#429 - 2014-05-14 18:44:12 UTC
nitro oxide wrote:
(...)

A (This is the letter A), B (This is the letter B), ....[ X ](This is the close the window button!!!!)

Gets old quick doesn't it!! EvilEvilEvil

-1 For assuming everyone is ether a Noob (That if that is what this was intended for ?) If I was on a trial account and that **** popped up every time I moved the mouse I would be put off v quickly or That Everyone who plays eve has had one to many Quafe and brought on Alzheimer's over night?

(...)


And that is actually quite insulting to us, dont you think?
Alternative Splicing
Captain Content and The Contenteers
#430 - 2014-05-14 18:46:43 UTC
Pix Severus wrote:
I didn't have a problem with the tooltips, that was until I was trying to target multiple objects in space and found the tooltip actually stopped me from being able to click on stuff because it was in the way.

I've also found that the overview is lagging a little more than usual. Probably related.


This is one of my main grievances with the changes. I really liked the old way. After a few hours of playing the game, tool tips on the star map and on just modules stopped appearing - I couldn't even see what I had loaded.

Iteration and progress is fine, but it would be far better if this was actually, as the topic title says, tiptoeing. What has happened is a very hard march wearing steel-toed boots with no obvious way to go backwards. Anything that is being iterated with in the UI should be configurable such that good iteration can happen - here's what I like and should be expounded, here's what I don't like and have turned off. I don't like having everything not work the way it did yesterday.
Penny Ernaga
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#431 - 2014-05-14 19:06:09 UTC
Quintessen wrote:
Good work overall on the tool tips. I'm hoping there will be continued iteration on this each release. Please, please, please continue with this.

I'm hoping we see the some of the ideas presented at Fanfest in the next few months.

Some further ideas for information at a glance:

- For items in the NEOCOM that blink for notifications, please put what made them blink in the tool tip.
- For stations in the overview please list their services and owning corp and faction.
- For the sun, please list the numbers of celestial objects in that system (or could be done in an info panel). Specifically ice belts, ore belts, planets and moons.
- For asteroids and ice in space that we've scanned please place the last scanned amount (and m3 for that amount) in a tool tip.



Quintessen, no offense, just a quick clarifying question. Are you:

A. a person whose sarcasm is as dry as the Sahara in summer?

B. the alt of the guy at CCP who is responsible for this mess?

C. someone who never ever undocks / the alt used for running a mining bot?

...fingers crossed it is answer "A." P
Desert Ice78
Gryphons of the Western Wind
#432 - 2014-05-14 19:18:47 UTC
In general I have found the new tool tip to be quite good. No frustrations with the delay or anything. I particularly like the revamped tooltip when you select a stack of icons. The only reservation I have is the overview tooltips, which are only repeating everything the overview is already saying. These I'd turn off.

I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg

CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#433 - 2014-05-14 19:26:27 UTC
…oh, and while you're giving us settings for these UI items (because that is what you will have to do — no excuses — on top of making them actually be a direct impediment to gameplay), can you also please bring back the options for UI items such as cross hairs, snapping distance, logging and information pop-ups?

And as others have said, can you please ensure that the tool tips actually communicate the correct shortcuts?
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#434 - 2014-05-14 19:46:48 UTC
Just add an option to turn the new tooltips off. On by default, but experienced players can disable it. Problem solved, no?

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Jack Cassidy
State War Academy
Caldari State
#435 - 2014-05-14 19:52:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Cassidy
CCP Delegate Zero wrote:



Also, we're not going to ignore the points controlling display of tooltips, to the contrary, but we do think this is something that bears thinking about carefully.




How does this require careful thinking? Shouldn't it have required careful thinking before it was implemented? It's an off switch, which quite obviously would solve a lot of issues for a lot of people. Pretty simple solution, i would say, and your precious tooltips can stay in the game. We just arn't forced to use them.

To me, that just sounds like a case off 'WE put it in the game, so YOU ARE going to use it, whether you like it or not.'
Lolita Troublemaker
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#436 - 2014-05-14 19:55:40 UTC
Sven Viko VIkolander wrote:
CCP Delegate Zero wrote:
Hi,

The team is keeping a close eye on this thread (and the others preceding the dev blog), plus other sources of feedback, and we have some work in progress to adjust some aspects and deal with several cases where the new tooltip format is causing problems.

Specifically, we've been looking initially at:


  • 'Mouse-over on icon column in overview'-only as trigger for new tooltip (this actually would also free us to have different tooltips for specific overview columns if there are cases where that is a benefit in general).

  • Some defects with bracket tooltips (including large numbers of brackets breaking tooltips).

  • Opacity of bracket tooltip listing.

  • Bracket tooltip to not trigger in the case of singleton brackets (this should very much help with the scatter loot as well as other cases).

  • Structures with timers and status information (offline, anchoring, etc) showing in the list-form tooltip for brackets.

  • Some starmap tooltip defects.


That's not an exhaustive list and we've noted the comments about timing issues, among others, but certainly timing is a tricky balance.

Also, we're not going to ignore the points controlling display of tooltips, to the contrary, but we do think this is something that bears thinking about carefully.

We'll keep taking in all the feedback and use it in our ongoing design work. A major focus of this team is on improving new player experience by generally raising the level of the all-round player experience. We know this approach is going to require our close attention to feedback and significant iterative work.



Please take a look at this screenshot of normal activity in eve: http://i.imgur.com/Whbh1qv.jpg
Even if this giant list was transparent, so I could see what was going on behind it, it is still a terrible design. I don't want to constantly scroll through giant lists (the same thing happens in data/relic sites, in mission rooms, etc, anywhere with more than a few items in space). I don't want to interact with lists, I want to interact with stuff in space. Please revert to the old design for brackets in space as the new system benefits no one. The list system adds needless complexity when in the previous system interacting with a jumble of items was fairly easy.



This x100
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#437 - 2014-05-14 19:59:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Unsuccessful At Everything
For as much work as CCP put into the tooltips, you think they would have spent another 5 minutes* and put in a DAMN OFF BUTTON.




* no clue how long it would really take.... but still..

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#438 - 2014-05-14 20:10:10 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
For as much work as CCP put into the tooltips, you think they would have spent another 5 minutes* and put in a DAMN OFF BUTTON.

* no clue how long it would really take.... but still..


If they had built this with that option in mind in the first place (as they SHOULD have), your 5 minute guesstimate is probably not too far off.


☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
Lolita Troublemaker
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#439 - 2014-05-14 20:10:40 UTC
If the NPE is the reason for this, perhaps make this only appear on new player clients? (Like the rookie chat channel) They can revert back to the old way after 30-60 days? This way vets get the way we like and the new players can have their hands held.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#440 - 2014-05-14 20:12:36 UTC
Harrison Tato wrote:
Winchester Steele wrote:


Reading comprehension is hard though, right?



I guess so. Try comprehending my post.

This little exchange made me smile.
The ironyLol

Back on topic, has anyone else noticed how more people are retouching their portraits since these things droped?

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=