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Dev Blog: Tiptoe Through the Tooltips

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Jack Cassidy
State War Academy
Caldari State
#321 - 2014-05-14 11:42:01 UTC
So how do we turn these tooltips off?

Seriously, why were we not given an option to turn them off? Cause, you know, EVE needs more clutter on the UI....
Rayzilla Zaraki
Yin Jian Enterprises
#322 - 2014-05-14 11:43:05 UTC
I like pretty much everything about the new tool tips except they come up way too fast.

Gate campers are just Carebears with anger issues.
Vhelnik Cojoin
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#323 - 2014-05-14 11:44:53 UTC
I have now had the opportunity to test the new UI 'features' on TQ.

The new predictive menu thinggy: Yes please! Awesome. <3 End of. Big smile

The new tooltips: Oh my gawd... Evil

Constructive feedback time:

*) Previously on TQ, when you intentionally hovered over a group of NPC ships in a mission while partially zoomed out, you got the 'stacking' popup, allowing you to cherry pick which ships to lock with Ctrl+Click. This functionality could have used a bit of polish. yet was overall quite useful as-was.

In missions you frequently wish to target a particular groups of NPCs, or you may end up with full room aggro. Particularly for new players this could be a very bad thing. Infamous example: The first room in the mission Blood Raider Vengeance L4. Here *all* the NPCs are at about the same range when you warp into the deadspace, so selecting your first target groups by sorting the overview for distance won't work. Your *only* option for proper target selection in this mission is to Ctrl+Click the NPC groups in space.

Currently the new tooltips - or rather 'toolTIP (singular) - completely ruins this, as instead of the nice stack of NPC icons of old, you get the singular - and completely non-informative - huge popup for the particular ship you hover over. You cannot even click through the tooltip if you sorta can guess where the next target icon is. You *have* to wait for the tooltip to clear in order to be able to lock any ship icon obscured by the tooltip.

I mean ... seriously?!What?

*) The new tooltips for the overview are now completely pointless, and important information was taken away.

*) The hu-u-u-ge popup for Shield/Armor/Structure now neatly ( <<-- sarcasm) obscures the ship status information ("Warp Drive Active", "Aligning to ...", "Keeping Foo at range 1234m" etc.). There was a reason people asked for the ship status information to be permanently displayed (a request which the devs obliged to. Yay!), as particularly in PvP it is quite often very important to know at a glance whether you remembered to keep your frenemies at range or whichever. This oversize tooltip needs to go. Unconditionally.

*) I can no longer see on the overview which ships I have locked already. I have a minor visual disability, yet really didn't have any problems with the small fonts and icons of the old UI setup. From the comments in this thread it would seem like there is some way to identify locked targets on the overview, but it is invisible to me now. This is really, really annoying even just for killing NPCs, and I'd hate to think of how this will work out for me in a huge PvP fleet battle.


TL;DR: Yikes! Ow! No! Shocked

Have you Communicated with your fellow capsuleers today? It is good for the EvE-oconomy and o-kay for you.
Colman Dietmar
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#324 - 2014-05-14 11:49:18 UTC
Found some more problems (sorry):

On star map, when one star is behind another, it's really hard to get to the right one. A popup list would be nice.
Also on star map, when the popup is shown, clicking a star to center on it doesn't work. If you manage to click before the popup appears, it does center.

On solar system map, the list of celestials that are close together is still working the old way: messy and without a scrollbar.
Plexing Laugh
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#325 - 2014-05-14 11:50:32 UTC
This new tooltips are absolutely annoying. It's impossible to target a thing in a bubble of ships/things, the solar system map thing is just amazing.

We understand that an apparently simple, and terrible, update like this one has a lot of work behind it and that you don't wanna dissapoint the person/people behind it, who worked hard to develop it.
But despite of their good will and hard work this is absolute ****, it's terrible for any kind of mid sized+ activity(Pvp,pve,mining,looting...) in the universe. With the greatest respect to the ones who developed this new feature: it's absolute and terrible ****.

As said 89243582435 times in this post: why don't you test this things or, at least, check experienced and active players opinion? (i'm noway experienced, but you've tons of this kind of players in this thread)
Saira Minamoto
Perkone
Caldari State
#326 - 2014-05-14 11:55:07 UTC
Where is the ON / OFF function?
Rofla Copter
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#327 - 2014-05-14 11:59:03 UTC
Remove those idiotic tooltips and fire the genius behind them.
At the very least, allow us to turn off your "great, new and oh so helpful feature"!
Mr Floydy
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#328 - 2014-05-14 12:05:04 UTC
Short unhelpful post here. But +1 to not liking these. Was really annoying yesterday, I'd control click a shift bracket to target and it pops up with a comparatively huge bit of text telling me what it is - I already know what it is because I selected it.

All this information just seems redundant in the places I've seen it so far. Perhaps other views are more useful but I can't see any benefit for this on the brackets of objects in the main view.
Jazmine Khardula
True Foundations
#329 - 2014-05-14 12:12:30 UTC
ok this doesnt need an on/off switch like alot of u are saying. we need this for quick info when pvping. what CCp needs to do is roll it back and release it when its customizable or somthing. cuz right now its completly useless. even for rookies. its like babying the rookies wich makes them ignorant to the real way of doing things. pls this game is hard and it should never be made easy cuz then it will be dead.

go back to making station enviroments for every one to enjoy. CCP!!! u guys are working on the wrong stuff. ther are new games coming out dont make it easy for every one to stop playing this game...

i vote for a rollback and change the sleipnir back to the cyclone for gods sake!!!!!!!
Davina Sienar
The Misinterpretation of Silence
#330 - 2014-05-14 12:14:26 UTC
I think the stuff was done by the same UI Programmer
that tried to put bookmarks into pulldown-treemenues some time ago...
please send him to that company doing windoz....
mebbe he has a bigger future there

thanx for downgrading eve again

and... dont try to tell us that this feature was tested somewhere and users reported it as OK ^^






CCP Keynotes:
... blah blah improved communication with users... blah blah we deliver... blah ...



FAIL
Ax Pym
Doomheim
#331 - 2014-05-14 12:15:36 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
I've found another piece of constructive feedback.

The fact that the new tooltip just tells me "battlecruiser" or whatever when I mouse over another player, where before it used to tell me their name and their corp/alliance affiliation is beyond frustrating.

I'm not an idiot. I know it's an effing battlecruiser because it says so on the overview!

Ruining existing useful tools for the sake of new players is a slap in the face to everyone else who plays the game.

Revert this immediately.


Previously, the info displayed in the overview pop-up, related to other players in the overview, was determined by overview settings, ships tab. But now the pop-up is 'stupid', and only displays the ship class. My preferences, which are still checked, allowed me to see pilot names and corp in the pop-ups previously. I thought this was helpful, whereas I find the ship class so much less. But I do prefer the placement, and 'look' of the new tool tip.

axpymlives.tumblr.com
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#332 - 2014-05-14 12:17:11 UTC
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
Ali Aras wrote:
Think about children!


If CSM did see those tooltips and let them pass in current form that means you are all idiots.
I'm sorry but I cannot substitute this with another word.
And clearly you don't play this game.

If CSM didn't see those tooltips I ask why aren't you all here?
And: what is your point of existence if you aren't consulted about a feature that will bleed eyes of EVERY FRAKKING PLAYER THAT THIS GAME STILL HAS?


Bears repeating.

☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#333 - 2014-05-14 12:24:35 UTC
To all devs involved in this "feature": if your feedback thread has Dinsdale and "nullsec cartels" united against what you did you know you seriously frakked up.

No offense Dinsdale, I still like you and think that your clouds idea is awesome :)

Invalid signature format
Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
#334 - 2014-05-14 12:25:31 UTC
TigerXtrm wrote:
What confuses me, wasn't this supposed to ship with Kronos? I was kinda surprised to see it suddenly pop up in a patch in the middle of nowhere. And especially in it's current state where it seems massively unfinished and untested. What was the point in rushing this out to TQ?


CCP have a long history of bringing in unfinished c**p to TQ.

They also have a long history of not listneing to a word we say and do what they want anyway. Notice the long wait since the last Dev post in this thread ?
Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
#335 - 2014-05-14 12:27:46 UTC
Gaijin Lanis wrote:
As someone who is new to EVE, computers, and life in general, I had no idea the little "x" at the top left corner of every window in every operating system, program, and game with windows closed the window on which it was placed until informed of such by the new "close" tooltip associated with the aforementioned symbol.

I, for one, feel this design philosophy needs to be expanded. Perhaps by creating a tooltip associated with every window to inform players that each window is, in fact, a window. To continue on this line of thought, a tooltip could be associated with each tooltip explaining that tooltips are, in fact, tooltips. A tooltip could also be associated with the cursor so when someone mouses over their cursor they can learn their cursor is, in fact, a cursor, with helpful information on how exactly to use the cursor and mouse. As we all know the first thing anyone does after they buy their first PC or MAC is install EVE online.


LOL. Please don't give them any more dopey ideas, they have enough of their own.
Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
#336 - 2014-05-14 12:29:47 UTC
TigerXtrm wrote:
To everyone complaining that an [X] button on a window shouldn't have a tooltip, please hover over your nearest close window button in any random window and tell me what happens.

The thing that is annoying is that it pops up instantly where there should be a delay. The delay is meant for those who do not know what something does to get more info, while those who know it's function can instantly use it without having to read the tooltip.

Implement delay = everyone happy.


yeah, a delay of around 8 hours would work.
Dave Sidious
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#337 - 2014-05-14 12:32:48 UTC
Little issue I noticed. When trying to use the radial menu on the watch list to do something like orbit the FC, the tool tip does not disappear when clicking the mouse, this obscures the radial menu. The radial seems to pop to the top everywhere else but not on the Watch List.
Gould Ko
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#338 - 2014-05-14 12:33:29 UTC
CCP Delegate Zero wrote:
Hi,

The team is keeping a close eye on this thread (and the others preceding the dev blog), plus other sources of feedback, and we have some work in progress to adjust some aspects and deal with several cases where the new tooltip format is causing problems.



That's great news. Predictive mouse with sub menus is great. The tooltips need work.

Here are my suggestions:

1. Make sure the tooltip doesn't cover any on screen data. Specifically I am thinking about the Selected Items menu. The tool tip could pop up under the button not over it.

2. In space popup list for clusters of objects should be filtered based on the overview filter.

If I don't have wrecks in my overview why would I want them in a tooltip popup? This particular in space popup would be very disruptive to large fleet combats. There could be a thousand wrecks and frozen corpses all over the grid.

3. Redundant tool tips. Overview: If I have the type column already displayed in the overview, I don't need to see the type as a popup. If we need a tooltip, show us something we don't already know. In space tooltip for a celestial is a good example of a useful tooltip (distance).

4. You should differentiate between what is a tutorial level tool tip (I'm the map, I'm the map, I'm the map, I'm the map!) and an informational tool tip. Let us turn off the tutorial level tooltips.
Davina Sienar
The Misinterpretation of Silence
#339 - 2014-05-14 12:33:56 UTC
Oh just one more Idea to Unify that Tooltips in Overview...


Instead of Frig / Cruiser / Freighter etc,
just make it say [Spaceship]
since this is a Game about Spaceships and its serious




Idea
Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
#340 - 2014-05-14 12:35:34 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Your UI devs ought to be fired. If this is what they come up with then they're not capable of producing the quality of work you need. It's not "there's room for improvement", it's "you ****** up in so many ways including not allowing players to properly test these changes, pushing poorly tested changes onto the live server, obviously not testing these changes yourself, and being generally pants-on-head ********."

You'd think you'd have learned from the unified inventory fiasco but it's very very clear that you haven't.


They never learn, and keep doing the same thing over and over. Even monkeys learn by their mistakes.