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Dev Blog: Tiptoe Through the Tooltips

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Marga Vhiran
Ice Fire Warriors
#221 - 2014-05-14 01:32:58 UTC
Not sure if this has been reported already, but I'm already missing being able to see corp/alliance affiliation when I mouseover a ship on my overview. Any way to add that back in? Knowing which group the red I'm holding cloak next to belongs to is more useful than knowing that it's a frigate since its type is also displayed on the overview anyway.
Harrigan VonStudly
Stay Frosty.
A Band Apart.
#222 - 2014-05-14 01:33:33 UTC
Capqu wrote:
Here's a video of me highlighting and replication steps of some the issues I've been having with the new tooltip stuff

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emBHRNzMI9E&feature=youtu.be

almost no lense flare / dubstep just my **** voice
plz like comment and subscribe

edit: also it looks like the map hasn't been updated with this new tooltip system so u can see pretty clearly http://puu.sh/8LlJs.png how it would have worked before



Perfect illustration of some of the problems. In the video the brackets in space are aligned horizontally from the pilot making the video. It's worse when those brackets are in the same travel direction away from you compared to your ship's location and are behind each other due to their varying distances away. It's a giant mess all the way around.
Gaijin Lanis
Gallente Federation
#223 - 2014-05-14 01:35:30 UTC
Drabbin Mishi wrote:
My problem is that the tooltips on the mini-containers from Data and Relic sites are *MUCH* slower than the old name popups - making it much much more difficult to find and click on the mini-containers that you need to retrieve. MUCH slower.

You're supposed to bring a small gang to data sites so you can catch all the phat lewt contained therein.

The above was written and posted with nothing but love in my heart for all.
Wraith Shardani
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#224 - 2014-05-14 01:37:49 UTC
Jean deVallette wrote:
This is a disaster - where can I turn this crap off.

Try doing a data or relic site. The stupid tips obliterate the ability to get to tightly packed groups of cans.

FFS do you do any bloody testing, I would get fired at work for letting this through.
asteroidjas
Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services
The Possum Lodge
#225 - 2014-05-14 01:42:02 UTC
CCP Delegate Zero wrote:
We know this approach is going to require our close attention to feedback and significant iterative work.


Two Words.
TEST. SERVER.

You know ahead of time it will require 'significant' iteration, yet you chose to just up and skip the Test Server phase.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#226 - 2014-05-14 01:43:22 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Redundant info 1
Thanks CCP, I didn't know those were tracking speed scripts and I didn't know how many I had.

Redundant info 2
This should really say "overview options". I know what my active overview configuration is, it's already listed like 15 pixels down and to the right.

Redundant info 3
The rest of the tooltip is nice, but it doesn't need to be titled. Again, this info is already shown.

Redundant info 4
This I kind of understand given how you've redone bracket tooltips, but you should really avoid showing this if it's just one bracket being shown.

Redundant info 5
Again, you don't need the title. The rest is fine.

This is not a pilot.

There is only one Sun. This is a star.

This module doesn't even have a fitting window tooltip.
(Energized Armor Layering Membrane II)

And finally, the solar system map, the most atrocious part of this entire mess:
WTF?
Seriously, WTF?


Also:
I know what minimize and close are. Everyone who has ever used a computer in the past 20 years knows what these are. They do not need tooltips.

The tooltips in space are awful, slow, and when you stack many items together the tooltip blocks out a significant portion of the screen entirely. The previous tooltips are far superior.


This, this, this, this, this, this, this, this and this.

I find it remarkable that sooooooo much effort can be putting into making everything but the off-switch. How is that possible.
Oraac Ensor
#227 - 2014-05-14 01:51:22 UTC
Gaijin Lanis wrote:
Drabbin Mishi wrote:
My problem is that the tooltips on the mini-containers from Data and Relic sites are *MUCH* slower than the old name popups - making it much much more difficult to find and click on the mini-containers that you need to retrieve. MUCH slower.

You're supposed to bring a small gang to data sites so you can catch all the phat lewt contained therein.

No, you're not.
stoneageman TOG
security services
#228 - 2014-05-14 01:59:51 UTC


for gods sake . let me turn off tooltips

why didn't you give us this option..

seriously i'd like to know.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#229 - 2014-05-14 02:13:25 UTC
Harbonah wrote:
My suggestion: Make the new UI standard for new players. Give an option in setting called "Simplified Tool Tips" that returns the UI back to the original tool tip format.


I'd be quite happy with the ability to switch tooltips between three states for the separate UI components.

The three states would be "Off", "Hover", "Instant".

The separate UI components are:

  • The rest of the screen (brackets? star field?)
  • Overview, Selected Item & other "ship/environment" windows
  • Neocom
  • HUD & modules
  • Chat, Fleet & other "player interaction" windows
  • UI elements themselves (i.e.: "x", title bar, minimise, pin, window border)


Of that list above, the first two items could be folded into one, with the rest of the list folded into a second option.

IMHO the important information for player owned objects in space is who owns them, what they are, where they are. That information needs to be available now not in half a second, and it needs to disappear as soon as the mouse leaves the object. That to me is the important feature set of the old "hints" regarding player-owned objects in space or the overview.

"Hover" time should no longer be tracked any time a non-hover action occurs (clicking a mouse button, pressing a key on the keyboard). If I move the mouse over a module and click it, I should be required to move the mouse off the module and bring it back before the tool tip will display.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Sizeof Void
Ninja Suicide Squadron
#230 - 2014-05-14 02:16:10 UTC
I vote for a button to disable the tooltips.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#231 - 2014-05-14 02:16:17 UTC
Gaijin Lanis wrote:
Drabbin Mishi wrote:
My problem is that the tooltips on the mini-containers from Data and Relic sites are *MUCH* slower than the old name popups - making it much much more difficult to find and click on the mini-containers that you need to retrieve. MUCH slower.

You're supposed to bring a small gang to data sites so you can catch all the phat lewt contained therein.


That may have been someone's design intent long before the feature actually escaped onto production. That is not how the feature works. Bringing a friend only halves the possible income, and one of the people has to just sit and watch while the other person has the actual fun which is the hacking game (well, it's less annoying than the non-game of probing and the nuisance of loot spew). The tooltips messing things up reduces your potential income by wasting the 15 seconds lifespan of the spew cans with five seconds of tooltip delay.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
ViRtUoZone
Spitfire Syndicate
#232 - 2014-05-14 02:18:24 UTC
When does Jita start burning in response?
Malcolm Shinhwa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#233 - 2014-05-14 02:18:34 UTC
"To get enough time on the public test server Singularity and enough time to respond to any issues with this massive change to EVE Online, we are moving the industry features into the next release after Kronos -- the Crius release on 22 July. " -- Devblog

I guess changes to what every single pilot sees don't get the same due diligence. :)

[i]"The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental[/i]."
Gawain Edmond
Khanid Bureau of Industry
#234 - 2014-05-14 02:19:03 UTC
ok for all the people hating on the tool tip farce we all agree that it'd be good for new players right? So wouldn't it be good if they made it turn off once you're kicked out of the rookie help thing oh and as for the big block of death tool tip thing it was dead good i was running around as logi tonight and we had some blues fighting the same guys we were but not in our fleet and i could see one of them in a swarm of drones and stuff to shoot at but it was impossible to get a lock on him as every time my mouse got near to him in that pants on head stupid box it vanished bring back the old ways it worked and wasn't broken as hell and let you see at a glance what you moused over and where everything is without having to scroll up and down to find things that you're looking for ill use punctuation when ccp makes this tool tip go away if they think reading this is hard i think the tool tip is ten times harder to work out than stacks of text with no punctuation
Ashlar Maidstone
MoonFyre BattleGroup Holdings
#235 - 2014-05-14 02:31:57 UTC
Sizeof Void wrote:
I vote for a button to disable the tooltips.


+10, I second it, a very very gross error on CCP's part, sheer stupidity.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#236 - 2014-05-14 02:33:08 UTC
Jayem See wrote:
Some great stuff here but the tooltips need a rapid iteration.

It made me think immediately of the changes that are coming to the audio features.

slider at 0 = tooltips off
slider at 1-99 = everything in between
slider at 100 = tooltips as instant as possible

Could be as coarse as

Neocom
Brackets
Overview
Modules
Menus/Context Items

Pretty much the only way it makes sense to me.

in case ye missed this one.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#237 - 2014-05-14 02:42:34 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Saying "constructive criticism only" is saying "here's what you get, like it or not, so tell us how to make it better."

Yeah, no thanks. So here's my destructive criticism: get rid of it. Sorry if that hurts your feelings but I'm not obligated to praise a turd.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Sven Viko VIkolander
In space we are briefly free
#238 - 2014-05-14 02:44:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Sven Viko VIkolander
Forget a disable button, just remove this ****. Plenty of problems have been pointed out, to the point that no one can sanely think even new players benefit from these changes. I've realized that even the predictive mouse feature has flaws as it causes annoying lag in displaying pop-out windows, such as when quickly moving down a list of asteroid belts. Ideally it would be nice to have it more responsive to displaying pop-out windows, removing the lag or delay in opening new window branches.
Alexis Nightwish
#239 - 2014-05-14 02:50:15 UTC
OMFG @ predictive mouse movement!

Thank you! THIS is the kind of thing I hope for whenever I read that there's a UI change. Moar please!

CCP approaches problems in one of two ways: nudge or cludge

EVE Online's "I win!" Button

Fixing bombs, not the bombers
Ivan Taredi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#240 - 2014-05-14 02:51:06 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Saying "constructive criticism only" is saying "here's what you get, like it or not, so tell us how to make it better."

Yeah, no thanks. So here's my destructive criticism: get rid of it. Sorry if that hurts your feelings but I'm not obligated to praise a turd.

+1
They could roll back the patch if they wanted to make us feel better.