Missions & Complexes

Disclaimer: Before yall start crying too hard, these are overtanked fit's I'm throwing out for proof of concept, better or cheaper version can of course be made. Also we totally did this and it totally worked just fine and was awesome for VANGUARD, HQs need mwds and "effort" so whatever.

ON TO THE INSANITY
have some fits

[Paladin, Example Logi Mini-Archon Incursion]

Centum B-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Centum B-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Corpus C-Type Large Armor Repairer
Corpus C-Type Large Armor Repairer
True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay
True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay
True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay

Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Bastion Module I

Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II

[Machariel, Example Armor Incursion]

Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Centum C-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Centum C-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Centum C-Type Energized Explosive Membrane

Sensor Booster II
Sensor Booster II
Tracking Computer II
Tracking Computer II
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron

1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
[Empty High slot]

Large Projectile Burst Aerator II
Large Anti-Kinetic Pump I
[Empty Rig slot]


So how this work you might ask?
Same was as all other vanguard sites, jump in, press F1. Paladin will keep whatever you want alive, it's got the rep power of 2 guardians and even more local tank and so much cap buffer you would need a Geddon to neut it out.

Why do this instead of shield you might ask?
1. Mini-Archon
2. Only 1 logi means more DPS ships (like solo scimi but easier)
3. Single logi shield vanguards require RRs on the battleships and are generally a lot more ~effort
4. While shield does only require 1 mid and 1 rigslot to tank (pithum invuln and a t1 rig) armor (with the same amount of isk) requires 2 lows and a rig slot. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, you already can fit 4 damage mods and a TE, along with ALL of your midslots dedicated to sebos, target painters, tracking computers, or whatever else your heart desires.

Advantages
-Boss as ****
-That's a ******* logistics Paladin
-If you pimp the armor resistances into A types on your dps ships you get basically the same slot layout as shield ships, also since the TE nerf, scripted TCs are far superior.

Disadvantages
-No scimitar tracking links
-Requires boosts
-No vargurs :(

1. ...
2. Some groups already do this, and a nestor would be more effective even being able to provide better dps through drone assist,
3.Not really,
4.Armour can also do a 2slot tank comfortably, with only one or two groups who actually do proper armour fittings.

p.s. It's nice to see you back dabbling at trying to min-max sites :)

pretty sure i have seen all maurauder fleets where there are 11 dps on grid that work.


Everyone hits the site and bastions.

I love incursion runners so much.
Can't read a damn thing xD

7 RR isn't 2 full logis and nobody cares about Guardians You're not counting the bastion bonus which only affects LOCAL rep, yes?
Nestor does it better (with more added dps) with 2-3 marauders accompanying but the loss of *bonused* RTCs makes it somewhat debatable.

Fail. Go back to shields.

Ermmm

Over tanked bastion paladin (we use this version in our fleets: TIG Paladin)

Also, if you really insist on making a paladin logie just quick refit to yours makes it stable running all and looks less shinny on scan:

[Paladin, Example Logi Mini-Archon v2]
Centum B-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Centum B-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Core X-Type Large Armor Repairer
Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II

Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Bastion Module I

Large Auxiliary Nano Pump II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II


But you have 2 fundamental problems...
First, you use armor :D
Second, now not trolling, but who is going to rep the fleet if paladin disconnects? And who will rep paladin once he is out of bastion when that happens and he is scrammed?


And yea, my channel uses Paladins, Kronos and Vargurs, bastion fit, local tank, 12 on grid when we manage makes silly site times. Best thing is you don't need logie, as soon as you hit like 6 pilots online you can start running for 7 minute sites, when you build up to 8-9 pilots you get 5-6 minute sites easily, everything more makes it just better

Pros:
Less forming up time
Less depended on fleet composition (No need to have 2 logies, this many vindies, that many machariels, etc).
Can combine both armor and shield pilots in one fleet

Cons:
You don't look awesome as pirate hull fleet (at least to them)
You are always mistaken for isboxer even if you run with other people :D

likewise

Can anyone come up with a single legitimate disadvantage to using armour?

TCs are better than TEs, so having mids free for them is a good thing, most armour ships ahve plenty of lows for 4 damage mods and a tank. The only thing I can think of is armour RR applying the armour at the end of the cycle, but armour ships will generally have bigger buffers and the cycles are so short that it should almost never matter.

Basicly: rep at end of cycles, add rr time reactions-you need alot of extra buffer, no armor invul-overload options, no armor boost amps, no crystal set variation for armor, lowslots determine raw damage -schieldfits have better flexibility, more armorbuffer-slower fleets, ..

That said: armor fits work, schields are beter overal for incursions -in HQ setups id even say go shields or go home(or get send home)

As for HQ, the scaling(in %) and not being able to overheat Invus requires 3-4 armor tank mods, while a shield ship doesn't lose much(1-2 meds and a low) what is more beneficial for ships like the NM and the lost med slots are not a big issue, since you have lots of dedicated ships for different things and don't need that much extra painters and webs on the individual hulls.

As for VGs armor is slightly in a advantage, since the extra web/painter/TC on the hulls makes the fleet more flexible and damage application in direct comparison is much better within web range(since the primary will be webed/painted very hard and you have enough webs in the fleet spread webs over the rest to), especially if you work with a lot of sentry dps and missile ships(that improve a lot by the extra painters and webs the fleet puts on targets).

For Assaults it should be pretty even, we(OIC) are currently playing a bit around with the setups to see what we can do(2-3 slot tank atm, I will revisit it probably a bit later down the road when the newer players flown more of them and we have a clear picture how far we can reduce incoming dps by focused damage application).

For VGs 1 tank mod, 1 rig does the trick for many faction or pirate BS and flying with just one Oneiros or Guardian(in Tandem with a normal paladin with 3 RR and 1 cap transfer, that can help out with damage spikes, puts 1-2 reps on the logi if needed or double up as full time logi in case of logi disconnects). Different to shield this is possible even with just 4 dps and one logi on grid, by the higher amount of RR in the fleet and when we put one of our nestors on grid everything stays at 100% all the time(except for the nestor that needs a truckload of RR by the big signature and is therefore not the preferred solo logi option in our fleets and only used with another nestor or 2. logi).

From the logi perspective, the logi just needs to be a bit quicker, while the buffer is higher(more armor than shield on most hulls) the resists are lower(EANM vs Invu) and has to run all reps for a longer time frame to top the hulls up again. On the plus site the cap is much better on the Oni than the Scimi(what allows it to more or less keep up with the dps by running all reps as long as needed) and armor logis are super durable what makes the hassle free to lock and remote rep if needed(by the shear amount of EHP it is going nowhere fast and requires little to no RR at all to keep it alive, what saves you a lot of cap and micromanagement on the dps hulls).

However, I like to admit that I am the only person in the channel that runs the fleet like this(dualboxing the Pala and the solo logi, doing 100% of the logistics myself) for safety reasons(we once lost a Abaddon from the new player program as I outsourced the job) and just use it as a tool to keep the fleet running with no logi pilots around or to put logi pilots in additional dps hulls when we are low on dps. But yeah it is possible and save(as long as the logi is at the ball).

As for competitive armor Incursions, I think armor is fairly competitive outside of HQ sites(again more a issue with the slot layouts of many hulls and number of slots that are needed armor tanking HQ) and I seen 4-4.5 minute site times with armor fleets just the same as I seen them with shield, the fleets are just a lot more rare(like armor fleets in general). From my experience if you have 9 talented dps players and 1 good logi pilot, it doesn't really matter if you stick a EANM or a Invu on the hulls for shiny fleets.