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There has been only one MMO I PVP'd in
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Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#101 - 2014-05-12 15:27:00 UTC
Velicitia wrote:


FTFY Ramona Cool


Thank you hunny, well said :)

Satur Arbosa wrote:


But why would someone in Hi-sec want to kill a miner anyway?



Well there are many many many reasons, not limited to;

He is a mouthy **** who needs a slap and hides behind his tank and CONCORD

He is mining on another miner's turf

He's a spai who is in fact a wolf in sheep's clothing

There is a bounty on him



Of course the real answer is; its not really your concern, you should be more worried about avoiding the gank than the reason for it happening.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Satur Arbosa
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#102 - 2014-05-12 15:30:53 UTC
I seem to be getting a few negative responses for my defending the word "concept of fairness"

If anyone actually read my first post within this topic they would see that I did not bring the subject of fairness into this debate.
All of what I said in my post has been passed over in favour of the fairness subject.

I feel I have made my point about fair fights even "fair fights" To make it as easy as I possibly can to understand I do not feel it is fair or "fair" to attack pilots in Hi sec who are unable to defend themselves.

It's been a lively debate and I thank you all but i will back away from it now.

Goodnight and god bless you all.
Erufen Rito
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#103 - 2014-05-12 15:33:28 UTC
Satur Arbosa wrote:
I seem to be getting a few negative responses for my defending the word "concept of fairness"

If anyone actually read my first post within this topic they would see that I did not bring the subject of fairness into this debate.
All of what I said in my post has been passed over in favour of the fairness subject.

I feel I have made my point about fair fights even "fair fights" To make it as easy as I possibly can to understand I do not feel it is fair or "fair" to attack pilots in Hi sec who are unable to defend themselves.

It's been a lively debate and I thank you all but i will back away from it now.

Goodnight and god bless you all.

Running away is a good way to defend yourself. You have to be on your toes. Autopiloting and AFK mining is not a good way to be on your toes.
Just saying.

This is as nice as I get. Best quote ever https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4137165#post4137165
Velicitia
XS Tech
#104 - 2014-05-12 15:37:33 UTC
Satur Arbosa wrote:
I seem to be getting a few negative responses for my defending the word "concept of fairness"

If anyone actually read my first post within this topic they would see that I did not bring the subject of fairness into this debate.
All of what I said in my post has been passed over in favour of the fairness subject.

I feel I have made my point about fair fights even "fair fights" To make it as easy as I possibly can to understand I do not feel it is fair or "fair" to attack pilots in Hi sec who are unable to defend themselves.

It's been a lively debate and I thank you all but i will back away from it now.

Goodnight and god bless you all.



aww ... the debate was fun ... stick around, maybe we'll end up finding the root of the problem, and you'll see EVE in a new light (that is what happened to me -- I used to be strongly on the side of the "but I just wanna do my own thing" people).

Ramona McCandless wrote:
Satur Arbosa wrote:


But why would someone in Hi-sec want to kill a miner anyway?



Well there are many many many reasons, not limited to;

He is a mouthy **** who needs a slap and hides behind his tank and CONCORD

He is mining on another miner's turf

He's a spai who is in fact a wolf in sheep's clothing

There is a bounty on him



Of course the real answer is; its not really your concern, you should be more worried about avoiding the gank than the reason for it happening.


we forgot the most important reason!!!

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#105 - 2014-05-12 15:45:08 UTC
Satur Arbosa wrote:
I seem to be getting a few negative responses for my defending the word "concept of fairness"


Actually, Im very positive about what to do about the unfairness.

You dont have to have a gun to make it unfair on the other person.

Satur Arbosa wrote:
I did not bring the subject of fairness into this debate.


"Yes you did, you invaded Poland." - Basil Fawlty

Satur Arbosa wrote:
I feel I have made my point about fair fights even "fair fights" To make it as easy as I possibly can to understand I do not feel it is fair or "fair" to attack pilots in Hi sec who are unable to defend themselves.


Agreed. This is why all pilots are able to defend themselves.


Satur Arbosa wrote:
god bless you all.


By Omir Sarikusa, I hope not

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Solecist Project
#106 - 2014-05-12 15:46:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
I'm sorry if I'm misjudging you. :(

Opening a new thread about this specific topic would be a better thing to do, though.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#107 - 2014-05-12 16:02:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Satur Arbosa wrote:


But why would someone in Hi-sec want to kill a miner anyway?



To drive demand for the surplus of mining and combat vessels they have available for sale locally, at bargain basement prices. It's nothing personal, just business.

+Everything Ramona listed. Many gankers are also miners and industrialists, and other miners are competition for the available resources.

With reference to fair fights, if you find yourself in one, one or more of the involved parties screwed up.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Malcolm Shinhwa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#108 - 2014-05-12 17:01:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Malcolm Shinhwa
My contribution to the side discussion:

Sensi told me, "If you are in a fair fight you have bad tactics."
Firearms instructor told me: "First rule of gunfighting is bring a gun and all your friends with guns."*

For the OP:

You don't like open world PVP because it interferes with your goals for your day. You like WOW battlegrounds because you can decide to go fight and otherwise no one can mess with you and your planned grand works. Eve is all about messing with people's plans. You don't get to have a non-compete zone here, not even in hisec.

If such a non-compete zone were ever created, Eve would die, within days. I know you think, "nuh-uh, it would be a marvelous paradise for those of us who don't want to PVP and the subscriptions would flood in." But in reality, since Eve has literally the worst PVE of any current MMO, no one would stay. It is the risk that draws players to sub and stay subbed. No risk, no Eve.






* The 2nd rule is: Bring ammo. The right ammo. And plenty of it.

[i]"The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental[/i]."
Cypherous
Liberty Rogues
Aprilon Dynasty
#109 - 2014-05-12 17:08:30 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Virtually everybody that plays Eve PvPs in one form or another, even if they believe otherwise.


Pretty much all activities in EVE are PvP, OP, don't mistake "PvP" for combat as it doesn't actually mean that, Player vs Player means you're competing in one way or another with other players, that includes market PvP :)
Adira Nictor
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#110 - 2014-05-12 21:25:36 UTC
Satur Arbosa wrote:
Satur Arbosa wrote:
[quote=Ramona McCandless][quote=Satur Arbosa]


And you will never, ever, ever see my accept a 1 v 1 with anyone.





The fact you go into low sec and null is an acceptance that you are willing to fight. This is the same with everyone. Going into said area's make you and everyone else a valid target. I said this earlier and stick by it. I have and always will say the "unfairness" is attacking people in hi-sec who do not want to experience combat.


Hey wait just a minute, the fact that you undock from the station means you are willing to fight or die. It is said early on for everyone in the npe, if you undock you may be attacked and die. The only safe place in New Eden is in a station docked up. We don't need more people getting this "bright" idea that your should be safe in highsec.

Everyone is a valid target if they are in space, regardless of what security level the space is. The issue I have with this whole concept of "fairness" is the NPE tells you flat out your a target as soon as you undock. Everyone should always expect to be attacked, then it would be "fair" by your concept. Its not our fault highsec dwellers think they can just change the rules and ignore basic safe flying practices and well will just say ok, they say they are safe we better leave them alone.
Reiisha
#111 - 2014-05-12 23:57:55 UTC
Shell Scott wrote:
I started playing MMO's with EQ and have probably played 75% of them. As a rule I never ever ever PVP...except one time.

I really liked Warsong Gulch in WoW. Why is that? I hate open world PVP, I despise ganking, I'm the biggest carebear in like ever but for some reason I couldn't tear myself away from Warsong.

Why? I'm not sure. But for me, that REALLY worked.


I was enjoying WSG just fine in Unreal Tournament and other, older shooters. The game type is called 'capture the flag' and doesn't require a subscription to play.

Just had to get that off my chest.

Oh, and AV is just BF Conquest, but worse.

If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all...
Barbelo Valentinian
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#112 - 2014-05-13 02:15:06 UTC
It's interesting, this discussion about fairness.

I think what some people want is a game like Chess or Draughts, where "balance" means that both sides are evenly balanced in terms of numbers, and it's personal twitch skill, or fast thinking, that counts.

But a Rock/Paper/Scissors game is totally different, and "balance" has a different meaning in that context; and especially a R/P/S game that's an MMO, in which time spent in-game, and knowledge gathered about the complex opposing R/P/S forces and various types of possible scenarios and likely outcomes, is of capital importance. In such a context, fairness has nothing to do with it - it's mostly about learning how to pick your fights, and if you pick well, there is no fairness. But that's WAI - and in a sense, there is fairness at a more meta level - i.e. in the sense that it's open to anybody to put the time in and learn.
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#113 - 2014-05-13 02:23:55 UTC
EVE is rock, paper, bazooka. And I think it bothers people..

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.
HairyButter
Fairy Fleet
#114 - 2014-05-13 04:52:48 UTC
Join 'Red vs Blue'

;)
Precentor Saggitus
Planet Express Transport
#115 - 2014-05-13 06:29:59 UTC
The main thing people are missing here, though I think the OP might be after is the idea that stuff like WSG in WoW and other PvP venues are arena type PvP where you're just playing PvP but with a different set of rules. There in lies the fun and the challenge. the closest thing EvE has to it is faction warfare, which might be something the OP should look into. Personally I found stuff like WSG fun, with its biggest appeal being to be able to put together a team with a specific goal and come up with one's own "playbook" so to speak. Actually one of the most fun of these was Huttball in SWTOR.

Another point is correct in that yes, if one goes wandering into PvP in EVE as a noob you're going to get slaughtered. But not because you have low skill points or not having an uber ship. The chief disadvantage new players have in the game is not having allies. Which can be tough to find. It is fortunate that there are entities out there for new players to learn the ropes (RvB being the most obvious) but we must submit that its not obvious for a new player fresh out of the starting zone that there are such options.

Having watched the youtube video on the "new player experience" from fanfest, this is certainly an area that should be addressed to get more new players into the mode of how PvP works in EvE.

Something that occurs to me, is that taking a page from the whole PvP "battleground" thing, it would be sort of neat where there was sort of a rookie ship arena for new players where you could go blast other noobs to give it a shot, or perhaps other venues where one could enter sanctioned 1v1 or team vs team combats.

Few people understand the psycology of a highway traffic cop. Your average speeder will panic and immediately pull over to the side. This is wrong. It arouses contempt in the cop heart. Make the bastard chase you. He will follow.