EVE General Discussion

OP THIS SUMS IT UP RIGHT HERE

Freighter pilots wont even take 100k hp + freighters through that region ! its a choke point for Amarr to the rest of the north of the map.

Might as well call Niarja low sec. Helps to bring up the map and look at statistics of how many ships were killed in the last hour / last 24 hours.

Dat name o_O

Also, could you please explain what you think is broken about the mechanic. I'm serious.. not being facetious.

You win or you die.

The point of EVE is to have fun. In an open-ended sandbox the options are limitless, so the definition of "fun" is different for everyone.

Why were you hauling? Why were you exploring wormholes? I'd hope the answer would be that you're doing something you enjoyed, so just keep doing it and just learn from errors along the way.

Otherwise - Join a established corp. Already been said by loads of other people and for good reason.

If you do something to make concord attack you, your destruction is assured. You cannot flee, you cannot get away, you will lose your ship.
If you find a way not to lose your ship, it's considered a bannable exploit to use this way, to my knowledge.

I absolutely, always believe you are entitled to an opinion.

I do believe there are repercussions, and they go like this:

#1:
The ganker loses their ship. This is 100% assured, as CONCORD never misses. There are no real mechanics left to exploit, except 2 degrees of common sense: (1) the lower the sec, the more time you have, (2) don't gank while CONCORD is hanging out at the same spot that you are.

I think that these two mechanics aren't terribly slated towards ganking.. do you?

#2:
Losing a pod. Generally implants are recommended because pods can't be lost to CONCORD. If the ganker is at a gate blapping or bumping freighters, it's possible there are white knights, possibly with cockbag Thrashers (if they have any sense) and up to their eyeballs in SeBos. Losing a pod may just also happen in this case.

#3:
The ganker gets a sec status hit. This is important because generally he wants to operate in hisec. Repairing sec status will take time, money, or both.

In addition:

#1:
The ganker has to make a team effort. He can't do it alone for many situations. Procurers and skiffs particularly require teamplay, since a baby ganker in a T1 Cat is probably not going to put much of a dent in either one. For miners who additionally tank with ECM, paranoia, and operate in a fleet, recycling alts (a bannable offense, BTW) won't be a very good weapon for a ganker.

#2:
An aligned (read: pointing in the direction of, and with sufficient speed) vessel is impossible to gank because warp is immediate. The only reason you might not be doing it is because it's too much work.

#3:
Miners don't generally work in groups or teams. Why not? Little fish act together to look like bigger fish. Gazelles in groups mean that all but one gazelles will get away when a cheetah gives chase. Why not improve your odds and distribute the losses amongst your team? I am simplifying this of course.. a lot of people DON'T WANT TO team up for mining. The profession lends itself to solitary confinement.

#4:
The ganker has to get access to the wreck in order for his operation to be profitable at all. This either means teamwork, or complex logistics with re-docking and re-shipping to go get what's left floating.

#5:
Probably not a great point.. a miner with a defender (ewar vessel, attack frigate) is likely going to be left alone. Can it be done with an alt? Maybe. Usually it's not economical to have another person there, but then again losing a ship is a money pit.


I'll give you a tl;dr version:

1. These guys are working in teams. Why aren't you? Groups increase survivability. They increase your threat value.
2. These guys are walking around like it's a war. Why aren't you. Put on a flak jacket (tank), arm yourself with a pistol if you have to (ECM, alt, friend), do some research (alt+e s**tlist, zkill, Local), and do some exercises to keep yourself in shape (dscan, align).

"It's a living work of science-fiction."
It's a sci-fi movie you are living daily - with all the nastiness that comes with it.
It's your adventure and you get to shape it as you want.
Find what you like and do it. Most of us play this game as a welcome relaxation.
Stop thinking you need to prove or become something - just go and enjoy the game.
Also try a lot of things, who knows, maybe pvp is not for you.
Me, I found exploration to be nice, calm, rewarding and sometimes fun ( whether it's running from those damned Guristas in Ghost Sites, or tip-toeing my way through low-sec exploration sites ).

...oh, and HTFU!

You people are dumb. You're invulnerable for something like 30 seconds after undocking unless you activate a module or give a navigational command (with the exception of stopping your ship).

um yep hehe. I think it varies depending on the station, but yes 100% invulnerable long enough to dock up again.

Yeah - in what sort of civilization would a wreck be "lootable" by anybody other than the "state"-equivalent? (Or, perhaps, kept in escrow for next of kin, corp, or whatever.)

Forget the risible "penalties", the mechanic bears no relation to any kind of possible reality (i.e.simulation) and is clearly and absolutely skewed towards encouraging ganking, because things blowing up is what keeps the economy going, and people entertained. Creation and destruction, and a living economy based on their interplay, are what EVE is all about. Why pretend otherwise?

And that's not a problem, not a problem at all.

Except.

(Bit of history.)

Originally, very originally, long before CCP put a brave face on it, EVE was meant to be a "multiplayer Elite", i.e. a grand PvE space game, but with open, full-loot PvP as a realistic aspect of the simulation, something to spice things up and make the game come alive with the possibility of danger and loss.

The problem is, there wasn't enough "there" there for most players who tried the game. The virtual universe was vast, and immersive and exciting in that aspect, the spaceships were cool, the lore cool; but there just wasn't enough "E" in the PvE for most space jockeys - not enough to make EVE a hit for them. Plus also, the flying/combat gameplay was intrinsically a bit dull.

But the PvP multiplayer aspect worked very well. EVE became one of the very few games where you could be a little **** as part of the gameplay.

So, in essence, CCP was stuck with a certain kind of player who was attracted to the possibility of griefing and ganking. Those players supported EVE through its difficult early years. And, for a fact, on account of that, CCP has owed them big time for their loyalty.

However, CCP have been stuck with them ever since, and they've been stuck with the reputation EVE has as a niche game in which you're allowed to be a little ****. And that has attracted more people who enjoy being little ***** in a game.

And over the years, the design of the game has gradually dropped the PvE aspect till it is now utterly vestigial, and centred the gameplay totally on player shenanigans. Because that's what was keeping the game alive and thriving.

And again, that's not a bad thing.

But ... something was gained, and something was lost from the original vision.

See, in the early days, game designers, being mostly nice, middle class brainy folks, couldn't conceive that, given the opportunity, people would find more fun in being little ***** than in exploring and interacting with a rich, virtual environment, in the company of others. There's an interview with Lord British somewhere, in which he talks about virtually meeting one of Ultima Online's early, notorious griefers, and asking him why he did it: the griefer's response was (IIRC) "because you let me."

CCP were in the same situation - but very quickly (and very cannily) CCP took the opposite route to Lord British, and instead of trying to limit and shape the game (in UO's case by opening PvE only servers) they made a virtue out of a necessity.

For sure, there were some early attempts to shape the game to be a bit more attractive to carebears (CONCORD), because the creation aspect is still important, and it has to be possible to build stuff in the game, so carebears who enjoy building and accumulation have to be able to get some joy out of the game; but none of those measures could go too far into sim realism, because that would have alienated the core existing playerbase.

The way EVE is, is an accident, the result of early developer innocence (the same kind of innocence as Lord British evinced in the encounter cited above), and lack of resources in the early days to build the game they wanted to build, combined with a fairly early - and very intelligent - decision to take the players they got as they were, and go with the flow as a niche game.

Somewhere out there in possibility space, there's a space game that's rich in both PvE and PvP aspects - a space game that's fully rounded, in which the simulation aspect is as realistic as it can possibily be, and the "E" really is a living world in itself, to play off, and the PvP, and the living world the players co-create, is totally integrated into it, yet totally up to the player to participate in. That game, the game EVE might have been, would not allow such a patently ludicrous concept as suicide ganking.