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...I'm thinking of the state of nullsec here: the metagame has evolved to the point where the logical way to play is mostly to not log in. Most of nullsec spends the majority of its play time playing other games; for the few things we need to do, an op will be announced, a ping will go out...

I hope this quote from your post makes my point for me.

Why not just have the CSM follow a certain structure to make sure the power blocs don't hold absolute power and vote themselves until they run out of votes?

You could have say, 75% of the seats be among major bloc candidates, and 25% of the seats left to be filled by independents. Meaning the blocs could fight it out for that 75% and the independents would be guaranteed to elect a voice for themselves that is not part of any particular bloc but represents some particular interests (based on platform). Who is that guy who promised to try and fix spider tanking? People like him.
That person who promised all parts of space be equal, and promised to work hard. I want someone like that. (It was one of the Russians.)

People say highsec isn't heard, I will tend to agree with that but I have seen some CSM members argue both sides before CCP even if they are part of a power bloc, at least publicly.

So there is a certain amount of caring here, even if they don't admit it, for the more casual part of the game population. But voices? I dunno if that's possible without a slight restructuring, even if it just means moving one chair to an independent candidate out of whatever number of independents run.

Or just have a secondary body that is picked by CCP and is not summoned to the summit, but has access to CCP via dialogue on the forums, just more voices for them to bounce ideas off of. Just by forum access. The main CSM body can advise on matters that CCP deem important enough that they hold in person meetings for.

As for forum access? Surely you can accommodate more than 10 or so voices. Just select a few independents, like Dinsdale over there, who refuses to run, for some strange reason, even though he is by far one of our finest forum candidates. :)

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Come on Dinsy! We know you would like a more active role! Can we call you Dinsy?

I also don't think you have to have CCP be accountable to the players. It is their game. They should decide how to run it and what its best course is. We are privileged to play *their* game, not the other way around. It's CCP who truly have the game's best interest at heart, and not the players, who will always be biased towards what they like. That's why, players cannot hold a developer accountable or render them unable to make changes to the game that they, as designers deem to be appropriate.

They can give their feedback from a player's perspective so that the developers don't lose touch with the game, as happens a lot in other mmos, but anything more is going too far. Stuff like protests. That's going too far.

That is by far a larger issue than who is on the CSM. Death by committee anyone?

We're not a crowdfunded game, where CCP have to do everything their backers ask, put every feature, whether they like it as designers or not. I, personally, like to see their vision reflected in the game and I don't think it's the CSM's role to try to create that. That's a developer right.

Just having a dialogue is good enough. But I do think CCP need to listen to more voices than what has been currently represented in this CSM election.

You've contradicted yourself in your first two sentences. First you say I'm a snowflake for saying that 0.0 has a problem, then you confirm that 0.0 has a problem. Then you go on to reiterate precisely what I said in my original post.

I'm not saying "0.0 must change or I will not log in", I'm saying that because it hasn't changed, people in 0.0 aren't logging in now. It's not a threat, it's a plain statement of fact. The PCU is through the floor because the logical endpoint of the current 0.0 mechanics has been reached so for great swathes of the playerbase, it's literally game over until CCP shake up the mechanics.

To give you an analogy of what the combination of Dominion sov mechanics and grossly overpowered power projection has done to 0.0, imagine that CCP changed mission agents such that they each had a large stock of missions, and when that was exhausted, they would only give a player a new mission once a week. For a while nothing would change, then as the most popular agents were exhausted, mission runners would spread out and use the less good ones, but eventually it would get to the point where every mission runner could only run 1 mission a week. Oh, and anyone can right-click and warp directly to your mission deadspace without even probing, ignoring any acceleration gates and landing on top of you.

And it has been like that for a year. And now, for reasons that are good and sensible and unavoidable, it's going to stay like that for at least another year.

Under those conditions, would you describe a hi-sec mission runner who said "well I guess I'll just log in once a week, or maybe I'll just go do something else instead and come back when it's fixed" as a 'special snowflake'?

Actually Malcanis you make the CSM sound rather pointless.

You can help on tweaking little things but where the playerbase actually needs CCP to be given a push, they don't like that and it subsequently the ideas need to be written up and get the community behind them before the CSM can use them.

So sorry it sounds this way but if the CSM is only there to adjust little things and the community needs to get behind ideas before CCP will touch them, why have the CSM in the first place. I mean the CSM has just become an impediment between communication between players and CCP and it really doesn't do anything, why is it there?

Whatever, I'm done arguing in circles with people who've already made their mind up.

Fine, it's all a lie, we spent the whole time swapping youtube links and competing to see who'd get to give Hilmer a sloppy BJ at fanfest. There, happy now?

@ CCP Leeloo

Does CCPgames feel that there is a correlation between the low Voter Turnout for CSM9 and the late releases of both the CSM8 Summer and Winter Minutes ?

Regards, a Freelancer

That is extremely short sighted, and may well come back to bite you later.

You are allowed to exist because your space is terrible and nobody wants to grind that many station systems. If those structures become destroyable, or if null industry suddenly becomes much more viable post patch, I have to wonder what would happen.

*shrug*

It is what it is and what happens, happens.

Of course it is deary...

The only thing worse than hi-sec whining, is null-sec whining.

not tenable

i can easily hide candidates inside the "independent" seat categories and use my bloc votes to ensure they have a seat

then surprise, while on the CSM the puppet candidates kowtow to our wishes instead of the people they claimed to represent

even if ccp makes that "illegal" and revokes csm membership at that point, the damage is done and the independent slot is burned and useless

fact of the matter is that highsec has to organize if they want power in this situation

"lol"