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Personally I'm amazed you do what you do.

Alright so lets start this off politely.

CCP you raise interbus taxes, alright im okay with this. This just means that Im paying 900isk per unit on something that currently sells for 15k or more/isk per unit. So im still making a profit.

However, if im going to be paying for this service why must I still go through all these tedious routines? Like having to be within the same system to launch materials from a launchpad to the customs office.

Why are storage units still utterly useless, it would be nice to be able to save up the mats in storage then launch them all into space and pick them up myself so I wouldnt have to pay the ridiculous tax. After all EVE is about taking risks and doing what I want. I'd gladly take that risk to avoid taxes. (Buff storage units, their capacity sucks for the CPU and PG they require.)

Why did you ruin PI so I can only make 1 p1 resource on each planet? It was better off when you could do multiple PI processes on a single planet. It doesnt make sense to FORCE me to export everytime I go to the next level of PI. If I can fit it on the planet with my command center I should be able to do that.

Now some suggestions to PI itself....

Ok so now that PI has gotten a bit more expensive... and your basically "investing" into a single planet why cant I upgrade that POCOS or planet so it has a competitive edge against other POCOS in other systems. Like for example maybe build a resource satellite that shoots down some catalysts that speed up the regeneration of white spots on my planet for all resources. Enticing people to come to my planet instead of someone elses. It would make sense even if command centers could build these as well. So if people want to save me some cash and they build these regenerating structures on my planet for me I'd give them a cut off their taxes.

On note of POCOS, is there already something in the works for a stat tracking feature for planets? Like how many people are doing PI, what theyre extracting, what theyre producing, etc. This way I could see if im doing well and maybe make adjustments to taxes if not. Also it would work well with the suggestion above.

Also could you come up with a system to make facilities inactive? So basically you could power down a certain planet and thus gain the ability to have another active facility on a different planet. So if the taxes got too crazy in one spot I could power everything down (maybe even contract it out for other players to buy) and move on to another system instead of blowing everything up.

Now to my point here with all this rambling... Why did you churn out this tax system NOW when PI is still incomplete. IMO I think you did it to make PI harder to do and thus with less people doing PI, PI mats themselves become more expensive. Also for the future of Dust you need people on both sides. I think you are trying to eliminate solo PI because of this so its always an alliance versus another alliance that way theres always a fight for Dust players. Which is kinda ridiciulous because I for some reason recall this being "A low skill investment for old and new players alike for opportunities to make tons of ISK" it was also something that in my belief was intended and greatly compensated solo pi players who knew what they were doing.

Man, there's no pleasing you at all.

I support most of your arguments, especially the ones where you DO give solid concrete numbers. I respect you for giving numbers and doing the calculations, and for making the overall case for what I think is basically a good change.

I point out an area where you may have overstated the case, and you turn it into a personal attack.

Somehow you take basic support and a call for some refinements that may not be to your liking, into FUD.

I don't like you much. either. I'll say that up front. But I try not to let that color my evaluation of your ideas. I don't plan to change that just because you don't like me.

I'd rather focus on your ideas, rather than your personality.

Apparently, you haven't noticed that I've been trying to both address rebuttable fears AND excess certainty, all along. To the extent I'm trying to influence the player base (not much) I try to be encouraging.

Sure, I advocate for a better world for a class of players you are not a member of.

You clearly don't know me very well. I'd very happily dig into the numbers, were numbers actually available for the things I'm talking about. The QEN's seem to have disappeared, and the promised ongoing delayed market data supply appears to have never materialized. I would be very happy to do more global analysis, were it possible.

The portion of your argument that was circular, is that "these are about the right prices, because look, here are these prices and here is what the taxes are", but those prices factor in the influence of the taxes already.

You are, to use a technical term used by those of us who actually do some of this sort of numerical reasoning for a living, overfitting your data.

Please note carefully, I did not say I think your conclusion is incorrect. I'm merely saying this weakens your case. Time and more data will tell. Your conclusion seems plausible to me.

But arguing that people who spout self-serving beliefs as absolute certainty are a bit full of it, hardly qualifies as FUD.

Do keep up the good work. Just try laying off the hostility a bit

I'd like to explicitly add my support for all of these ideas.

The first would go a long way toward addressing my balance concerns with large corps vs small, and also the risks faced by producers. Anything that actually encourages people to have enough confidence to produce, is good for POCO owners who want revenues.

The second also helps balance concerns, and makes it a lot more dynamic and interactive, and would encourage people to actually participate in the POCO milleu in losec.

Before the change to use ECUs, I used to advise people to train up to run level V command centers. But with that change, it became very difficult to get much benefit beyond level IV. I had advocated for allowing more extractor heads, but I think this change better fits the current structure.

Apology accepted.

Regarding the overfitting thing: What I'm seeing in your argument is that you're saying:

Here are these prices.
Here are the taxes on these prices
But the taxes themselves were based on essentially those prices.

Basically, you're just saying CCP Omen set the prices appropriately, based on the then-current (speculation-fueled) prices.

My point is that this doesn't really say anything about where the market equilibrium would be -- higher or lower. I'm not going to argue with the speculators on that, but I'm not going to conclude equilibrium based on it, either.

Is there something I'm missing in your argument? Feel free to clarify.

Perhaps all you intended was to say "taxes are consistent with the price speculators set". But that's what CCP Omen said they did, so I don't see the value added by that statement?

The other aspect is, I'm not sure how we could agree on what "appropriate" means, without clarifying the goals of the taxation. Perhaps I should just, without further ado, ask you to expand on your thinking with that?

My own thinking is that there's a mismatch between the investment required in POCOs and the return, and the tax rate does address that.

I'd really like to see further economic analysis, though, about the extended effects. I wish we still got the QENs. I wasn't trying to spread fear -- but I was expressing uncertainty about those impacts. PI had already become pretty important. This change makes it more important than ever. Just "more important than ever" is probably a key part of what it needs to be for DUST integration.

And yes, I assumed you work with numbers for a living. I wasn't minimizing your expertise, just asserting my own respect for serious analysis.

See... this makes me want to develop an EvE simulator... so many ideas in such threads, but no way to find out what would actually work well and, of course, the vast majority of posters only have their own perspective to work from.

Any one launching from Command Center at 500m3 a launch would burn out with in a week or two. Thoughs few that brave onwards after a week or two will be geting medical treat for there hands/wrist at some future data.

So I think it matters not one way or the other.

I would really like to know what happened to rocket launch cost and why it now costs 449550 ISK to launch 333 units of P2 into space?? That's 1350 ISK per unit?

It's one thing to have a tariff on Custom Office use whether NPC or Player owned.... it's entirely another to mess with the player colony rocket launch system.

I really can't fathom why this has been penalized when it is not directly linked to the PCO feature?


*(in the past I advocated for a pricier P4 launch penalty with a larger launch capacity trade off - but not for anything under P4!)

I would really really like to hear back about this please.

first you will tax me then u will shoot me and after that you just loot me

the first intention of this game is that you could be who you wanted to be, if we decide we want to be carebears its our decision
but for many years CCP wants us to go low/null sec while we all know its is ruled by pirates and huge alliances, what CCP wants to achieve is that we make stronger bounds to deal with that problem, but if we dont want to do that?

as for me i need to get away from the keyboard many times when im online that means i seek my isk in those things that have the
least risk involved, and 1 of those things is PI, but what we all seem to forget since the introduction of PI many of the things we all
buy from our markets are directly or indirectly made posible by the people who doing PI.

the risk with the increased taxes is that a lot of high-sec people (or carebears you call them, what ever rocks your boat)
will stop doing planetary interaction, and that means prices will rise overall on those items made posible, and so makes the entire
game less atractive

as you might have noticed there is some increase in sell orders on the markets for PI stuff what in my opinion means people already start selling there stock at a slightly increased price, if that dry's up what then? i supose time will tell