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[Kronos] Pirate Faction Battleships

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Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#2421 - 2014-05-10 08:11:11 UTC
Barton Breau wrote:
Doggy Dogwoofwoof wrote:
Barton Breau wrote:
Doggy Dogwoofwoof wrote:

[Test, Test]

5x Cruise Missile Launcher II (Scourge Fury Cruise Missile)
Drone Link Augmentor II

2x Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Large Micro Jump Drive
Gist A-Type Large Shield Booster
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Shield Boost Amplifier II

3x Drone Damage Amplifier II
2x Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Ballistic Control System II

Large Warhead Flare Catalyst I
2x Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II

2x Garde II


1571 DPS
819 DPS from missiles.
751 DPS from gardes
334 DPS omni tank

If you use ogres, Total DPS is 1631 with 793 DPS from drones
Edit, Put wrong rigs on the fit Derp


Make that 600 on angel bs + 657 bouncers for proper applied dps.

SNI gets 814 DPS with Explosive fury, 3 CNBCUs and 2 T2 BCUs So the snake still has 400 more DPS than the SNI
Besides, It would most likely be used in Caldari/gallente space where they are shooting the resist hole.


Resist is not the issue, the speed and sig of the target is, to get to good numbers you would probably have to have to use 2 tps, maybe less rigs with those, and switch to navy cruises for fast battleships.

But ofcourse that is not a issue of you plan to be orbited (would also make the 38+19km gardes work), in which case the jump drive could be exchanged.


Once you get a few frigates within 10 km deploy the one 3.75 bonused Gecko clean them up retrieve it and launch sentries again.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#2422 - 2014-05-10 08:33:19 UTC  |  Edited by: afkalt
That rattle should swap a MJD for a second TP. You don't need the range to tank and if a prop mod is needed (The Score, for example) stick it in a depot.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#2423 - 2014-05-10 08:54:32 UTC
Barton Breau wrote:
baltec1 wrote:


Raven has no issues getting its damage down, the rattle wont either.


Thats a non-statement, a myrm has no problems getting its damage done in l4s, yet it is hardly optimal.


You seriously just compared the new rattle with a t1 battlecruiser and have the nerve to say I gave a non-statement...


People are saying that cruise missiles wont work, fact is that ravens, scorps and phoons have zero issues with aplying damage with cruise missiles.
Barton Breau
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#2424 - 2014-05-10 09:05:02 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Barton Breau wrote:
baltec1 wrote:


Raven has no issues getting its damage down, the rattle wont either.


Thats a non-statement, a myrm has no problems getting its damage done in l4s, yet it is hardly optimal.


You seriously just compared the new rattle with a t1 battlecruiser and have the nerve to say I gave a non-statement...


People are saying that cruise missiles wont work, fact is that ravens, scorps and phoons have zero issues with aplying damage with cruise missiles.


I have not compared them, you did in your mind, which not my problem, is it?

I merely pointed out that "getting damage down" is such a broad term, it makes the whole thing null and void.

And you even choose to reinforce my point by further relativizing the missile application issue, thank you! :)
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#2425 - 2014-05-10 09:09:27 UTC
Barton Breau wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Barton Breau wrote:
baltec1 wrote:


Raven has no issues getting its damage down, the rattle wont either.


Thats a non-statement, a myrm has no problems getting its damage done in l4s, yet it is hardly optimal.


You seriously just compared the new rattle with a t1 battlecruiser and have the nerve to say I gave a non-statement...


People are saying that cruise missiles wont work, fact is that ravens, scorps and phoons have zero issues with aplying damage with cruise missiles.


I have not compared them, you did in your mind, which not my problem, is it?

I merely pointed out that "getting damage down" is such a broad term, it makes the whole thing null and void.

And you even choose to reinforce my point by further relativizing the missile application issue, thank you! :)


Right so now we can drop this none argument of the rattle not being able to apply its significant firepower.
Barton Breau
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#2426 - 2014-05-10 09:20:28 UTC
baltec1 wrote:

Right so now we can drop this none argument of the rattle not being able to apply its significant firepower.


Noone has had it in the first place, we were talking about the fit.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#2427 - 2014-05-10 09:29:13 UTC
Barton Breau wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

Right so now we can drop this none argument of the rattle not being able to apply its significant firepower.


Noone has had it in the first place, we were talking about the fit.


You were talking about the sig and speed which look like you were trying to say the rattle would not be applying most of its damage.There have been others throughout this thread who seem to think the rattle wont be able to apply the bulk of its damage either from cruise or heavy drones.
Barton Breau
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#2428 - 2014-05-10 09:37:35 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Barton Breau wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

Right so now we can drop this none argument of the rattle not being able to apply its significant firepower.


Noone has had it in the first place, we were talking about the fit.


You were talking about the sig and speed which look like you were trying to say the rattle would not be applying most of its damage.There have been others throughout this thread who seem to think the rattle wont be able to apply the bulk of its damage either from cruise or heavy drones.


Thats probably because of the available slots and two weapon systems, not primarily missile application, for example for a mjd fit you would want to have 100km control range, but would have to remove one missile launcher or use a rig, then having less space or rigors, bla bla bla, you get the point.

I guess the "interesting fitting choices" is strong with this one.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#2429 - 2014-05-10 09:54:32 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Barton Breau wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Barton Breau wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

Right so now we can drop this none argument of the rattle not being able to apply its significant firepower.


Noone has had it in the first place, we were talking about the fit.


You were talking about the sig and speed which look like you were trying to say the rattle would not be applying most of its damage.There have been others throughout this thread who seem to think the rattle wont be able to apply the bulk of its damage either from cruise or heavy drones.


Thats probably because of the available slots and two weapon systems, not primarily missile application, for example for a mjd fit you would want to have 100km control range, but would have to remove one missile launcher or use a rig, then having less space or rigors, bla bla bla, you get the point.

I guess the "interesting fitting choices" is strong with this one.


The ship is not believed to be a bad ship (sarcastic comments notwithstanding) but it is not a well designed rebalance at any level.
I will not repeat why, far too many pages of that already.

As it stands, it will be an obsessives delight, great for MiniMaxers. Both to fit and Fly.

People will find a fixed role for it eventually, and that will be it. it is certain to be a different role than it's current one.


And again as a mainstream pirate vessel it will be relegated to being the unloved relation.

Wonderful Paper EFT numbers, do not make for a good ship. If that were the case CCPs Job would be easy.
The poor devils doing rebalancing, wish it was. i do not envy them their Job.

But in this case, they need to completely rip up this rebalance, decide what they want it to do, decide where they want it to fit, and create a Good pirate boat based on their overall Vision for it.

Ripping bits out, bolting bits on, and shoving on hero sentries and juggling bonuses not to screw it up too much has made a frankenstein monstrosity out of a pleasant but uninspiring boat.

Give it a clear vision, a clear purpose, and do it well.
Players then use the sandbox to discover new ideas, odd roles, and unusual jobs for it.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#2430 - 2014-05-10 10:13:04 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
But in this case, they need to completely rip up this rebalance, decide what they want it to do, decide where they want it to fit, and create a Good pirate boat based on their overall Vision for it.


They did that already. It started with the Worm. The writing was on the wall for the Rattlesnake by the time that thread was posted.

And it has a "vision", or whatever you want to call the design intent.

*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#2431 - 2014-05-10 10:13:37 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Barton Breau wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Barton Breau wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

Right so now we can drop this none argument of the rattle not being able to apply its significant firepower.


Noone has had it in the first place, we were talking about the fit.


You were talking about the sig and speed which look like you were trying to say the rattle would not be applying most of its damage.There have been others throughout this thread who seem to think the rattle wont be able to apply the bulk of its damage either from cruise or heavy drones.


Thats probably because of the available slots and two weapon systems, not primarily missile application, for example for a mjd fit you would want to have 100km control range, but would have to remove one missile launcher or use a rig, then having less space or rigors, bla bla bla, you get the point.

I guess the "interesting fitting choices" is strong with this one.


You dont need drone tracking, heavies will track frigates well enough. Before the BS balance pass my mega's heavy drones did just fine vs cruisers in pvp. Also a mjd is not just something for getting into snipe range, my raven uses rhml and only uses the mjd to get to gates/objectives. Equally, you dont need to have two tp to be effective.
Crazy KSK
Tsunami Cartel
#2432 - 2014-05-10 10:14:26 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Barton Breau wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

Right so now we can drop this none argument of the rattle not being able to apply its significant firepower.


Noone has had it in the first place, we were talking about the fit.


You were talking about the sig and speed which look like you were trying to say the rattle would not be applying most of its damage.There have been others throughout this thread who seem to think the rattle wont be able to apply the bulk of its damage either from cruise or heavy drones.


with all 5 skills fury cruise have 87 EXPv and 425 EXPr which means that using fury it will not do full damage to most armor BS
so in most cases you will have to shoot faction ammo which looses you 135 dps (3t2BCU)

to be able to do full damage to BCs you need to switch to precision cruise since even faction cruise loose ~150dps

against cruisers though even precision cruise do only a third of their dps(538) most due to velocity, ~180dps effective

Quote CCP Fozzie: ... The days of balance and forget are over.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#2433 - 2014-05-10 10:39:57 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Barton Breau wrote:
baltec1 wrote:


Raven has no issues getting its damage down, the rattle wont either.


Thats a non-statement, a myrm has no problems getting its damage done in l4s, yet it is hardly optimal.


You seriously just compared the new rattle with a t1 battlecruiser and have the nerve to say I gave a non-statement...


People are saying that cruise missiles wont work, fact is that ravens, scorps and phoons have zero issues with aplying damage with cruise missiles.

I must say and give credit where credit is due - You are by far the best troll I have seen in a very long time.

I'm still not convinced most of it is deliberate. Somehow you believe you are actually contributing, that's the only real sad part..

But +1 for consistency.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Barton Breau
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#2434 - 2014-05-10 10:56:02 UTC
baltec1 wrote:


You dont need drone tracking, heavies will track frigates well enough. Before the BS balance pass my mega's heavy drones did just fine vs cruisers in pvp. Also a mjd is not just something for getting into snipe range, my raven uses rhml and only uses the mjd to get to gates/objectives. Equally, you dont need to have two tp to be effective.


Well, if your argument is that we can fly the rattler with 1-1.2k dps and much stuff take care of just to fly the rattler and have much stuff to take care of, then that is quite weak and thus will only continue this back and forth...
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#2435 - 2014-05-10 11:01:54 UTC
Barton Breau wrote:
baltec1 wrote:


You dont need drone tracking, heavies will track frigates well enough. Before the BS balance pass my mega's heavy drones did just fine vs cruisers in pvp. Also a mjd is not just something for getting into snipe range, my raven uses rhml and only uses the mjd to get to gates/objectives. Equally, you dont need to have two tp to be effective.


Well, if your argument is that we can fly the rattler with 1-1.2k dps and much stuff take care of just to fly the rattler and have much stuff to take care of, then that is quite weak and thus will only continue this back and forth...


You can get more firepower than that out of it. It will out damage just about any subcap.
Barton Breau
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#2436 - 2014-05-10 11:13:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Barton Breau
baltec1 wrote:
Barton Breau wrote:
baltec1 wrote:


You dont need drone tracking, heavies will track frigates well enough. Before the BS balance pass my mega's heavy drones did just fine vs cruisers in pvp. Also a mjd is not just something for getting into snipe range, my raven uses rhml and only uses the mjd to get to gates/objectives. Equally, you dont need to have two tp to be effective.


Well, if your argument is that we can fly the rattler with 1-1.2k dps and much stuff take care of just to fly the rattler and have much stuff to take care of, then that is quite weak and thus will only continue this back and forth...


You can get more firepower than that out of it. It will out damage just about any subcap.


You can, but not in the way you are describing, why are you so worried, once people find the more convenient ways to fit it for 1.3-1.6k the demand will go up, just keep selling, if we nag enough for a utility highslot or something in the meantime it will not hurt, will it?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#2437 - 2014-05-10 11:19:10 UTC
Barton Breau wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Barton Breau wrote:
baltec1 wrote:


You dont need drone tracking, heavies will track frigates well enough. Before the BS balance pass my mega's heavy drones did just fine vs cruisers in pvp. Also a mjd is not just something for getting into snipe range, my raven uses rhml and only uses the mjd to get to gates/objectives. Equally, you dont need to have two tp to be effective.


Well, if your argument is that we can fly the rattler with 1-1.2k dps and much stuff take care of just to fly the rattler and have much stuff to take care of, then that is quite weak and thus will only continue this back and forth...


You can get more firepower than that out of it. It will out damage just about any subcap.


You can, but not in the way you are describing, why are you so worried, once people find the more convenient ways to fit it for 1.3-1.6k the demand will go up, just keep selling, if we nag enough for a utility highslot or something in the meantime it will not hurt, will it?


Projecting that much firepower out to 100km is not something this game needs.
Spugg Galdon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2438 - 2014-05-10 11:20:04 UTC
I find it amazing that people are still on the issue of the Rattlesnake.

When this hits TQ all the mission runners are going to buy it because it is rediculously OP for missioning.

I havent looked into PvP fits for it but I'm sure it will do just fine in that scenario too. I'm curious as to why people seem to think that this ship should fly without support. They're saying it needs multiple TP's and all sorts to be effective. Shouldn't these TP's and web and stuff come from, well, you know, a friend in a support ship. Battleships are not very good at the solo stuff and they're not supposed to be.
Barton Breau
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#2439 - 2014-05-10 11:25:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Barton Breau
baltec1 wrote:
Barton Breau wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Barton Breau wrote:
baltec1 wrote:


You dont need drone tracking, heavies will track frigates well enough. Before the BS balance pass my mega's heavy drones did just fine vs cruisers in pvp. Also a mjd is not just something for getting into snipe range, my raven uses rhml and only uses the mjd to get to gates/objectives. Equally, you dont need to have two tp to be effective.


Well, if your argument is that we can fly the rattler with 1-1.2k dps and much stuff take care of just to fly the rattler and have much stuff to take care of, then that is quite weak and thus will only continue this back and forth...


You can get more firepower than that out of it. It will out damage just about any subcap.


You can, but not in the way you are describing, why are you so worried, once people find the more convenient ways to fit it for 1.3-1.6k the demand will go up, just keep selling, if we nag enough for a utility highslot or something in the meantime it will not hurt, will it?


Projecting that much firepower out to 100km is not something this game needs.


I hope you do realize, that it will be projected, one rigor II rig more or one rigor II rig less, and that this ship has already sailed.

EDIT: not even mentioning the vindicator
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#2440 - 2014-05-10 11:25:54 UTC
Spugg Galdon wrote:
I find it amazing that people are still on the issue of the Rattlesnake.

When this hits TQ all the mission runners are going to buy it because it is rediculously OP for missioning.

I havent looked into PvP fits for it but I'm sure it will do just fine in that scenario too. I'm curious as to why people seem to think that this ship should fly without support. They're saying it needs multiple TP's and all sorts to be effective. Shouldn't these TP's and web and stuff come from, well, you know, a friend in a support ship. Battleships are not very good at the solo stuff and they're not supposed to be.


Actualy the rattle is going to be very good at solo pvp.