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Dev Blog: CSM 9 Results!

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Josef Djugashvilis
#121 - 2014-05-09 20:27:14 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Mandatory suffrage.
It is pretty simple.

Huge screens on logon in the last week that the voting is open, and you can't play until you vote.
Naturally, everyone will jump on this as a terrible idea, as people will vote for the first name on the ballot.

Too bad.

It is better than the mess we have now.


So long as the mandatory voting screen provided an option such as, none of the idiots listed above, it might work Shocked

This is not a signature.
Dirk MacGirk
Specter Syndicate
#122 - 2014-05-09 20:30:42 UTC
GreasyCarl Semah wrote:
CCP gives away drones and other junk for no reason at all. It is quite apparent that if they wanted people to vote that they could simply give something away to encourage it.

In any case, I look forward to not voting again next year.




Yes, a pack of smokes and bottle of ripple for coming to the polls. Those are the voters we want. lol
Dirk MacGirk
Specter Syndicate
#123 - 2014-05-09 20:32:46 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Mandatory suffrage.
It is pretty simple.

Huge screens on logon in the last week that the voting is open, and you can't play until you vote.
Naturally, everyone will jump on this as a terrible idea, as people will vote for the first name on the ballot.

Too bad.

It is better than the mess we have now.


So long as the mandatory voting screen provided an option such as, none of the idiots listed above, it might work Shocked


even a simple option of "None of the Above" would allow players to express something. "Yes, I saw it. Yes, I know about the CSM. No, I don't care to vote for any of them." That would at least clear up some of the issue related to whether they even knew it was happening or not.
Josef Djugashvilis
#124 - 2014-05-09 20:32:54 UTC
Dirk MacGirk wrote:
GreasyCarl Semah wrote:
CCP gives away drones and other junk for no reason at all. It is quite apparent that if they wanted people to vote that they could simply give something away to encourage it.

In any case, I look forward to not voting again next year.




Yes, a pack of smokes and bottle of ripple for coming to the polls. Those are the voters we want. lol


Pint of Guinness buys my vote Smile

This is not a signature.
GreasyCarl Semah
A Game as Old as Empire
#125 - 2014-05-09 20:36:11 UTC
Dirk MacGirk wrote:
GreasyCarl Semah wrote:
CCP gives away drones and other junk for no reason at all. It is quite apparent that if they wanted people to vote that they could simply give something away to encourage it.

In any case, I look forward to not voting again next year.




Yes, a pack of smokes and bottle of ripple for coming to the polls. Those are the voters we want. lol


A Schlitz 40 oz and a Swank magazine will get you a vote from every account I own and maybe some from a few others I don't! Shocked
Mike Azariah
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#126 - 2014-05-09 20:45:56 UTC
I suggested that people take a % hit to their skill training time if they DIDN'T vote since psych studies show that you are more likely to respond to loss than bribes.

I have trouble understanding the people who didn't have the time to vote but do have the time to tell me that on the forums. And with the new voting procedure once you voted with one account said vote choices were saved for each successive account.

None of the Above is a good idea, he is a nice guy. Yes, there is a character called None of the Above

CCP Leeloo did ask a serious question . . . in case you missed it

If you didn't vote because you were not contacted HOW would you prefer said contact to come? EveMail spam? Popups in game while you are in the midst of a cambat? Bigger login messaging? Inability to login until you vote?

You are reading this on the forums but where do you think we can reach the MOST people. Get the message out with the highest efficiency and the lowest 'pissoff' rate?

m

Mike Azariah  ┬──┬ ¯|(ツ)/¯
mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#127 - 2014-05-09 20:47:11 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Mandatory suffrage.
It is pretty simple.

Huge screens on logon in the last week that the voting is open, and you can't play until you vote.
Naturally, everyone will jump on this as a terrible idea, as people will vote for the first name on the ballot.

Too bad.

It is better than the mess we have now.


Actually the order in which candidates are listed on any given player's voting page is randomized for that very reason.

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#128 - 2014-05-09 20:55:23 UTC
Mike Azariah wrote:
I suggested that people take a % hit to their skill training time if they DIDN'T vote since psych studies show that you are more likely to respond to loss than bribes.

I have trouble understanding the people who didn't have the time to vote but do have the time to tell me that on the forums. And with the new voting procedure once you voted with one account said vote choices were saved for each successive account.

None of the Above is a good idea, he is a nice guy. Yes, there is a character called None of the Above

CCP Leeloo did ask a serious question . . . in case you missed it

If you didn't vote because you were not contacted HOW would you prefer said contact to come? EveMail spam? Popups in game while you are in the midst of a cambat? Bigger login messaging? Inability to login until you vote?

You are reading this on the forums but where do you think we can reach the MOST people. Get the message out with the highest efficiency and the lowest 'pissoff' rate?

m


You do realize that if 10% of the sub base reads the forums, that means pretty much everyone who reads, votes?
We are the engaged players.

The ones that don't read the forums, they are the ones that you are after.
Josef Djugashvilis
#129 - 2014-05-09 20:55:55 UTC
Mike Azariah wrote:
I suggested that people take a % hit to their skill training time if they DIDN'T vote since psych studies show that you are more likely to respond to loss than bribes.

I have trouble understanding the people who didn't have the time to vote but do have the time to tell me that on the forums. And with the new voting procedure once you voted with one account said vote choices were saved for each successive account.

None of the Above is a good idea, he is a nice guy. Yes, there is a character called None of the Above

CCP Leeloo did ask a serious question . . . in case you missed it

If you didn't vote because you were not contacted HOW would you prefer said contact to come? EveMail spam? Popups in game while you are in the midst of a cambat? Bigger login messaging? Inability to login until you vote?

You are reading this on the forums but where do you think we can reach the MOST people. Get the message out with the highest efficiency and the lowest 'pissoff' rate?

m


You may be making a mistake is assuming that folk did not vote because they were not, in effect, contacted by CCP.

The hard brutal truth is that the vast majority of players just do not care enough to vote.

30 odd thousand votes out of a possible 300 thousand or so is a disaster for CCP and the CSM in terms of credibility.

The problem is not the messenger or how the message is delivered but the message.

The CSM is a great idea that almost no one cares about.

Sorry.

This is not a signature.
voetius
Grundrisse
#130 - 2014-05-09 20:59:58 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
GreasyCarl Semah wrote:
CCP gives away drones and other junk for no reason at all. It is quite apparent that if they wanted people to vote that they could simply give something away to encourage it.

In any case, I look forward to not voting again next year.
Paying people to vote is worse than having people just not voting, since it has a high chance of making people vote at random. At least with people not voting, those who do vote get more of a say. if thousands of people just voted randomly, it would randomly weight the votes.


So in other words it wouldn't make any difference? I.e. if all the people forced to vote vote randomly they will act like a rising tide that lifts all ships and the result would be the same as if they hadn't voted?

Personally I'm a bit doubtful about compulsory voting, although I believe that happens in Australia or maybe I misread that somewhere. I'd be interested in hearing about any experience of that (and I'll have a look on the web as I'm not a complete lazy ass).
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#131 - 2014-05-09 21:01:54 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Mandatory suffrage.

What If I want to abstain from voting if I find all of the candidates unsatisfactory?
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#132 - 2014-05-09 21:01:58 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Mike Azariah wrote:
I suggested that people take a % hit to their skill training time if they DIDN'T vote since psych studies show that you are more likely to respond to loss than bribes.

I have trouble understanding the people who didn't have the time to vote but do have the time to tell me that on the forums. And with the new voting procedure once you voted with one account said vote choices were saved for each successive account.

None of the Above is a good idea, he is a nice guy. Yes, there is a character called None of the Above

CCP Leeloo did ask a serious question . . . in case you missed it

If you didn't vote because you were not contacted HOW would you prefer said contact to come? EveMail spam? Popups in game while you are in the midst of a cambat? Bigger login messaging? Inability to login until you vote?

You are reading this on the forums but where do you think we can reach the MOST people. Get the message out with the highest efficiency and the lowest 'pissoff' rate?

m


You do realize that if 10% of the sub base reads the forums, that means pretty much everyone who reads, votes?
We are the engaged players.

The ones that don't read the forums, they are the ones that you are after.



Not that it matters much.
Those same players, at least a good portion of them, are the high sec casual players who are going to be blindsided in 4 weeks with this disaster.

When they are done voting in their manner, you won't have to worry about reaching them for the next CSM vote.

You guys on the CSM really don't get it.
There is a causality between the changes in direction in the game in past 12-18 months, and the huge drop-off in voting, and clearly, the drop in subs. Yet you continue to double-down on a losing hand.
Jin Xanga
Doomheim
#133 - 2014-05-09 21:02:52 UTC
CCP Leeloo wrote:
MailDeadDrop wrote:

And this conclusion (low turnout caused by lack of awareness) is supported by what evidence?
MDD

Mostly, by the feedback we've got from people who didn't vote.


I've spent hours over several evenings researching candidates. Pages of propaganda, flames and general bullshit. It's hard and some of us play games for recreation. At some point I just went "**** it, tmi, it's only a game". I didn't vote.

Not only you have to pick up 14 people you like (because otherwise you're wasting your vote, they say), but then you have to order them by your preference! Hmm... do I like person A more than person B? Or maybe person C?

Question: how many people actually logged in, went to voting page, and never submitted their vote? In other words, how many people actually tried to vote but were defeated by complexity of choice (UI was ok)?

Suggestion: make the choice simpler, give each player 5 votes so he can say "here are 5 people I like in no particular order" and then do your math magic.
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#134 - 2014-05-09 21:03:00 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Mandatory suffrage.

What If I want to abstain from voting if I find all of the candidates unsatisfactory?


No problem.
That is a vote as well.

None of the above is a valid exercise in democracy.
Dirk MacGirk
Specter Syndicate
#135 - 2014-05-09 21:04:12 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Mike Azariah wrote:
I suggested that people take a % hit to their skill training time if they DIDN'T vote since psych studies show that you are more likely to respond to loss than bribes.

I have trouble understanding the people who didn't have the time to vote but do have the time to tell me that on the forums. And with the new voting procedure once you voted with one account said vote choices were saved for each successive account.

None of the Above is a good idea, he is a nice guy. Yes, there is a character called None of the Above

CCP Leeloo did ask a serious question . . . in case you missed it

If you didn't vote because you were not contacted HOW would you prefer said contact to come? EveMail spam? Popups in game while you are in the midst of a cambat? Bigger login messaging? Inability to login until you vote?

You are reading this on the forums but where do you think we can reach the MOST people. Get the message out with the highest efficiency and the lowest 'pissoff' rate?

m


You may be making a mistake is assuming that folk did not vote because they were not, in effect, contacted by CCP.

The hard brutal truth is that the vast majority of players just do not care enough to vote.

30 odd thousand votes out of a possible 300 thousand or so is a disaster for CCP and the CSM in terms of credibility.

The problem is not the messenger or how the message is delivered but the message.

The CSM is a great idea that almost no one cares about.

Sorry.


Yep. Real life voting plagued by those who don't care (for whatever reason). Plagued yet again by the ignorant who do vote, but oh well, democracy and all that gets what it deserves

But let's just stick with those who don't care. Young people are historically bad at turning out to vote. Layer onto that something that many, even veterans, don't actually care about? It's sad, but far too many haven't bought into the CSM being important. So much NDA, so many things they can't or won't discuss, leads to people not knowing what value the CSM may or may not actually have on their EVE experience. Until the next Summer of Rage and then they will come out of the woodwork as a form of protest. But that isn't really what we're striving for here.
Josef Djugashvilis
#136 - 2014-05-09 21:05:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Josef Djugashvilis
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Mandatory suffrage.

What If I want to abstain from voting if I find all of the candidates unsatisfactory?


Tick the selection - None of the Idiots Listed Above

This is not a signature.
Freelancer117
So you want to be a Hero
#137 - 2014-05-09 21:14:46 UTC
Mike Azariah wrote:
I suggested that people take a % hit to their skill training time if they DIDN'T vote since psych studies show that you are more likely to respond to loss than bribes.

I have trouble understanding the people who didn't have the time to vote but do have the time to tell me that on the forums. And with the new voting procedure once you voted with one account said vote choices were saved for each successive account.

None of the Above is a good idea, he is a nice guy. Yes, there is a character called None of the Above

CCP Leeloo did ask a serious question . . . in case you missed it

If you didn't vote because you were not contacted HOW would you prefer said contact to come? EveMail spam? Popups in game while you are in the midst of a cambat? Bigger login messaging? Inability to login until you vote?

You are reading this on the forums but where do you think we can reach the MOST people. Get the message out with the highest efficiency and the lowest 'pissoff' rate?

m


You was my # 1 CSM9 vote, glad to see it is still justified Cool

If you use any ingame tools like popups, these will be immersion breaking in what ever you do, not a smart option for an open world pvp game.
Can you imagine a(y) pvp match that will generate some comments when the popup happens.
To be fair both sides will have a disadvantage at the same time so this iteration of CSM news will be nicely balanced, hope they won't hold the CSM accountable for their interruption.

To give you an answer to the question posed by CCP Leeloo, I can only say show us your thoughts and if you want let the CSM refine these ideas and give the Capsuleers the options to choice which is best for their current gameplay style per alt.

PS: also Hahahaha, hahahaha your first sentences

Eve online is :

A) mining simulator B) glorified chatroom C) spreadsheets online

D) CCP Games Pay to Win at skill leveling, with instant gratification

http://eve-radio.com//images/photos/3419/223/34afa0d7998f0a9a86f737d6.jpg

http://bit.ly/1egr4mF
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#138 - 2014-05-09 21:15:39 UTC
CCP Leeloo wrote:
Freelancer117 wrote:
Eligible voters have cast 31,294 votes for the CSM9, for CSM8 this number was 49,702 votes cast by eligible voters, and for CSM7 that was 59,109 votes cast by eligible voters......


CSM8 was by far the most productive council yet and it has been a pleasure to work with them. We have released the raw data on voting, and if people want to speculate or run math on it then that's fine by us (:

You're right that CSM8 was really vocal and spoke a lot in the media over the course of their term, they were also pretty active on the forums. However only a small percentage of EVE players actually read our forums and news feeds. This is something we would like to change, but it will take time. It is out feeling that the downturn in votes is due to a lack of awareness, and we will be working with CSM9 to raise more awareness of the council and exactly what they do, and will be looking at new methods of communication to reach out to players that are currently not engaged with the CSM.


The primary thing that lets people know the CSM did things are the minutes. Under Dolan, the minutes were seriously delayed and deliberately made uninteresting (the goal was to make sure you never got new info from the minutes). I realize why that was happening, but it's incompatable with conveying what the CSM does.

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#139 - 2014-05-09 21:20:08 UTC  |  Edited by: PotatoOverdose
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Mandatory suffrage.

What If I want to abstain from voting if I find all of the candidates unsatisfactory?


No problem.
That is a vote as well.

None of the above is a valid exercise in democracy.

Then I'm fine with this, although honestly I don't think this will fix the underlying problem.

Eve, as a community, consists of generally nice people. There are however, a few bad apples that take stuff way too far in RL. The process of becoming a CSM candidate involves releasing RL personal info. This prevents many people from running, and reduces candidate diversity.

Most of the CSM reperesents either the null blocs or WHs. Most of the player base is involved in neither of those. Increasing candidate diversity increases the likelihood that a non-bloc player will find an acceptable representative for his or her vote.
Dave Stark
#140 - 2014-05-09 21:30:06 UTC
Mike Azariah wrote:
I suggested that people take a % hit to their skill training time if they DIDN'T vote since psych studies show that you are more likely to respond to loss than bribes.

I have trouble understanding the people who didn't have the time to vote but do have the time to tell me that on the forums. And with the new voting procedure once you voted with one account said vote choices were saved for each successive account.

None of the Above is a good idea, he is a nice guy. Yes, there is a character called None of the Above

CCP Leeloo did ask a serious question . . . in case you missed it

If you didn't vote because you were not contacted HOW would you prefer said contact to come? EveMail spam? Popups in game while you are in the midst of a cambat? Bigger login messaging? Inability to login until you vote?

You are reading this on the forums but where do you think we can reach the MOST people. Get the message out with the highest efficiency and the lowest 'pissoff' rate?

m


hit to skill training just fucks people who are out of town/unable to vote. they shouldn't be punished because most of the players don't give a rats ass about the CSM.

i think in-game mails are a good way to contact people. personal emails may get sent to spam. the character selection screen is also a terrible place as i view it for under a second as i reflexively hit enter to log in with my main character. inability to log in until you vote would probably coerce the most people to vote; however people voting because they're coerced is basically votes for whatever name is at the top of the list just so they can log in and ultimately counter productive and the fastest way to **** people off.

once you've mailed everyone in game, they're aware of the csm. after that it's a case of making them care; something neither ccp or the csm has done, and it clearly shows this year. you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink [unless you impose a bunch of stupid "stick" methods that will do nothing but make everyone want to get rid of the csm because of the dumb **** penalties every year]