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CSM 9 Results

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Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#401 - 2014-05-09 16:33:05 UTC
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Just so I'm getting the tinfoil straight here, the point is that it's *not* possible that they've simply done a good job getting the message out to new players, and that most of the abstains are just people embittered that they can't auto win by being highsec?



The major complaint that CCP has admitted was an issue was that people didn't know it was going on, due to the announcements being buried rather frequently. That 'new' players might magically have known more than anyone else seems a bit odd and suggests that a lot of alt voting went on, which is in line with what goons were claiming earlier.

We don't have the needed demographics to be certain, but it's a fair bet that you'd see that 30 and 120 day accounts are wildly disproportionate to other account ages, if we did.


I would point out that BR-5 introduced a lot of newbies to the game.

It's well within reason that they are voting, this year the CSM campaigns were pushed pretty heavily.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#402 - 2014-05-09 16:34:06 UTC
Malcanis wrote:


Perhaps I'm biased, but democracy produced a pretty good team last year.

It's a truism that every nation gets the government it deserves.


I cant and wont argue with empirical evidence, that would be silly lol

But I do feel that roles should be offered to those best at the job, rather than on the whim of the masses.

Thats just my two cents. Coming from where I do, democracy is nothing but trouble lol.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#403 - 2014-05-09 16:34:49 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Doc Fury wrote:
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:

Interestingly, the second largest block of voters was 30 day old accounts. CCP states that voting was down this time, significantly.


This is my surprised face.

And CCP really believes the bad voter turnout was simply due to a lack of player awareness about the CSM. This is an interesting position to put forward when all those new eggs seemed to be aware enough to vote.

I would expect most official communication from CCP for the rest of the next year to be sprinkled with praise about how good a job the CSM is doing "representing" players. I would not be surprised if we see a blog or even a video dedicated to that purpose to reinforce the propaganda.


Is it so hard to believe that 14 EVE players might want EVE to be a better game, and go to some effort to try and help this happen?


Caring does not make this whole thing any better than player "representation" theater.

You can claim to care all you want but you have no actual authority to do anything, and CCP has no obligation to do anything the CSM unanimously agree upon. As such, the CSM players club are irrelevant and ineffectual "representation", and as more players come to realize this, it is no great surprise that voter participation is falling off. CCP can't even be bothered to release the CSM minutes in a timely fashion or bother to consult with the CSM prior to doing really dumb stuff, which just reinforces how important they really view the CSM to be to them.

Please do explain to us in detail the CSM's specific role in regard to oversight of CCP and what exactly they have done (and are doing) to prevent another T20 incident or Dev/CCP employee misconduct. Flying you guys to Iceland or rallying you guys to do damage control when CCP does something stupid is not oversight.


☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
Marsha Mallow
#404 - 2014-05-09 16:38:00 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Coming from where I do, democracy is nothing but trouble lol.

That's what riots are for :P Blink

Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:

Sweets > U can dd my face any day
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#405 - 2014-05-09 16:41:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Doc Fury
Dave Stark wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Is it so hard to believe that 14 EVE players might want EVE to be a better game, and go to some effort to try and help this happen?

yes.


What an unhappy world you live in.

Let me be your little ray of sunshine by assuring that we do and we did (well, 13 of us anyway)

I hope that has brightened your bleak, hopeless existence just a little, even if the sheer evanesence of the experience only served to deepen your gloom by contrasting it.

you're in an npc corp and this is the eve-o forums.
i love you malc, but as you can see... i can't take your posts seriously.


He had a big plan to do a trolling stunt by joining goons but failed to commit, and has canceled his sub instead.

One last act of gleeful spite
(post #165)

Malcanis wrote:

I was going to join goons for a few days to get the tinfoil hat brigade in a tiz, but when it came time to do it I just unsubbed instead

Sadly you have removed the rest of your post, it was quite illuminating what you said later in it about how you really feel about the EVE players you represent.

Cancelled

☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#406 - 2014-05-09 16:42:52 UTC
Marsha Mallow wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Coming from where I do, democracy is nothing but trouble lol.

That's what riots are for :P Blink


Oh dont even lol

Also

fleg

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#407 - 2014-05-09 16:46:12 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

It's well within reason that they are voting, this year the CSM campaigns were pushed pretty heavily.


CCP is saying that low voter turn out was caused by lack of CSM vote visibility.

If people were campaigning as hard as you claim, then people would have known the vote was going on.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#408 - 2014-05-09 17:21:03 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Malcanis wrote:


Perhaps I'm biased, but democracy produced a pretty good team last year.

It's a truism that every nation gets the government it deserves.


I cant and wont argue with empirical evidence, that would be silly lol

But I do feel that roles should be offered to those best at the job, rather than on the whim of the masses.

Thats just my two cents. Coming from where I do, democracy is nothing but trouble lol.


It should be recalled that the CSM's original role was to keep CCP honest. Luckily, that's not really an issue these days, but arguably that's at least partly because the CSM has helped to keep CCP honest.

That's not a responsibility that's compatible with CCP directly choosing the CSM.

I know what the voter figures are this year, and it's a large enough number to make meaningful choices between a decent sized candidate pool. If only a fraction of EVE players want to make the effort and take responsibility for informing themselves sufficiently to make a meaningful vote, then tbh, I'm kind of OK with that as long as the voter pool is big enough. And I think that it is.

But let's be honest with ourselves here: most people don't vote because they simply don't care enough and so can't be bothered. Most of the shallow cynicism and hostility towards the CSM is basically a tissue-thin wrapper around this obvious turd.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#409 - 2014-05-09 17:23:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Malcanis
When CCP were talking with CSm8 about what they could do to get voter numbers up, we told them, sure, more publicity, maybe an evemail to new players explaining the process with links to relevent pages, yadda yadda, but the only real way to get a bunch of people voting was for CCP to propose doing something incredibly awful.

EG: let's say that CCP proposed to remove CONCORD (or introduce CONCORD to lo-sec) 6 weeks before the election and threw open a "comments" thread. I would bet money that this would see an extra 10k voters.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#410 - 2014-05-09 17:26:03 UTC
Malcanis wrote:


But let's be honest with ourselves here: most people don't vote because they simply don't care enough and so can't be bothered. Most of the shallow cynicism and hostility towards the CSM is basically a tissue-thin wrapper around this obvious turd.



Accepted.

Just to make it clear: Its the voting for things in general I dislike, not the CSM itself :)

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#411 - 2014-05-09 18:15:37 UTC
Malcanis wrote:

But let's be honest with ourselves here: most people don't vote because they simply don't care enough and so can't be bothered. Most of the shallow cynicism and hostility towards the CSM is basically a tissue-thin wrapper around this obvious turd.


I'm sure that's what you want people to believe or maybe you truly believe it yourself, but it does not make the CSM any more relevant or effectual as player "representation" when a so-called representative body does not have any power or authority whatsoever.

☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
Prince Kobol
#412 - 2014-05-09 19:01:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Prince Kobol
Malcanis wrote:


I know what the voter figures are this year, and it's a large enough number to make meaningful choices between a decent sized candidate pool. If only a fraction of EVE players want to make the effort and take responsibility for informing themselves sufficiently to make a meaningful vote, then tbh, I'm kind of OK with that as long as the voter pool is big enough. And I think that it is.

But let's be honest with ourselves here: most people don't vote because they simply don't care enough and so can't be bothered. Most of the shallow cynicism and hostility towards the CSM is basically a tissue-thin wrapper around this obvious turd.




I have voted each year expect this year because from what I saw the pool to choose from was well.. awful.

I believed that it did not matter who was voted in as they are all cut from the same cloth and many of the candidates are people who failed to get into previous CSM's. On top of this none of them particularly did a good job of selling themselves. .

That is not CCP fault and it is not the concept of the CSM at fault.

If not enough worth while candidates are running for CSM then you have to ask the question why?

Is it because they believe no matter how good their campaign might be, they would never be able to over come the block vote?

Is it because they do not believe that the CSM have any real power to guide CCP and if so why do they believe that?

As for not caring, why do players not care? What is it that makes the majority of players not give a rats ass about the CSM.

I have never seen anybody from CCP really try and get a handle on this.

Why have CCP never sent out a questionnaire to all subscribers asking them their thoughts on the CSM I do not know. There are things CCP could do to try and find out why the players are not interested if they really do care about the credibility of the CSM and being months late with the meeting minutes does not help.

I actually believe that CSM8 was the best CSM we have ever had and had the best chance ever to really show the player base how effective a CSM can be, however CCP once again let them down and that appears to be a recurring theme with the entire CSM concept.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#413 - 2014-05-09 19:31:22 UTC
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
[
A clear demonstration of how little you know about how the game works. I don't think I could have done a better job showing it than you just did yourself.


If that's 'how the game works' how does that make Eve different from 'Pay To Win'?

Though personally I doubt that' 'how the game works' but rather 'how Goonswarm does things'.


Dave Stark wrote:

did you just suggest that people leave ships worth billions of isk just sat, unpiloted, in poses?

please tell me you didn't just suggest that.


Considering how often losing them that way is whined about, yes.


Apparently reading is tough for you too so I'll be blunt. You have no idea how the game works and you should be ignored until you learn how it works.

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Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#414 - 2014-05-09 19:37:15 UTC
La Nariz wrote:

Apparently reading is tough for you too so I'll be blunt. You have no idea how the game works and you should be ignored until you learn how it works.


And even afterward, for having the temerity to post to such an extent with any knowledge of the subject.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#415 - 2014-05-09 19:47:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Cygnet Lythanea
La Nariz wrote:

Apparently reading is tough for you too so I'll be blunt. You have no idea how the game works and you should be ignored until you learn how it works.


Allow me to equally be blunt in return. Go read your own killboards, then come back and tell me people do not leave super caps in POS.

Hell, let's think back to Ginger Magician getting banned because he had a big mouth following someone stealing his super carrier.

LaNarnz, assuming that is your main, I've been playing eve a hell of lot longer than you, As I said, that may be how things are done in Goonswarm, but if you think that every supercap in game has it's own alt account set up just for it, please go get your head examined. Most people just buy an older toon and put it on their main account. There used to be a fairly brisk trade in people living in high sec training up toons for cap ship pilots and selling them.
Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#416 - 2014-05-09 19:52:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Andski
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
Allow me to equally be blunt in return. Go read your own killboards, then come back and tell me people do not leave super caps in POS.

LaNarnz, assuming that is your main, I've been playing eve a hell of lot longer than you, As I said, that may be how things are done in Goonswarm, but if you think that every supercap in game has it's own alt account set up just for it, please go get your head examined. Most people just buy an older toon and put it on their main account. There used to be a fairly brisk trade in people living in high sec training up toons for cap ship pilots and selling them.



yeah, you're wrong

maybe not every supercap in the game has its own alt account set up for it, but the vast majority do, and the ones that aren't on dedicated accounts are almost all held with babysitting alts and not just left floating in the POS. when you pay 30b+ ISK for a supercarrier or 120b+ for a titan you're not likely to do something as stupid as leaving it floating inside a tower unpiloted, and considering how they act as a response force, they need to be piloted at all times by high skilled characters that can fully utilize them

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#417 - 2014-05-09 19:52:34 UTC
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
La Nariz wrote:

Apparently reading is tough for you too so I'll be blunt. You have no idea how the game works and you should be ignored until you learn how it works.


Allow me to equally be blunt in return. Go read your own killboards, then come back and tell me people do not leave super caps in POS.

LaNarnz, assuming that is your main, I've been playing eve a hell of lot longer than you, As I said, that may be how things are done in Goonswarm, but if you think that every supercap in game has it's own alt account set up just for it, please go get your head examined. Most people just buy an older toon and put it on their main account. There used to be a fairly brisk trade in people living in high sec training up toons for cap ship pilots and selling them.



Yet another example of you demonstrating how little you know of the game. You should be a shamed of yourself for being in the game longer than me yet knowing less of it than me; you can't even spell my simple name right.

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Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#418 - 2014-05-09 20:02:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Cygnet Lythanea
La Nariz wrote:
[
Yet another example of you demonstrating how little you know of the game. You should be a shamed of yourself for being in the game longer than me yet knowing less of it than me; you can't even spell my simple name right.


Ok, La Bar mitsvah, let me ask you a question, which is more economically sensible, to buy two highly trained toons and put them on your main account as alts, or set up two alt accounts to keep your super caps on? Because if you're tooling around in a supercap you're probably not swinging solo. I know there are guys that do, but most are in alliances.

Or are you actually suggesting that goonswarm really is just five guys multiboxing?

You're also implying that your killmails about bagging super caps when blowing up POS are a lie, btw.
Higgs Foton
Mission And Mining Inc
#419 - 2014-05-09 20:06:12 UTC
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
[quote=La Nariz][


Or are you actually suggesting that goonswarm really is just five guys multiboxing?


Not five but twenty.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#420 - 2014-05-09 20:11:37 UTC  |  Edited by: La Nariz
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
[
Yet another example of you demonstrating how little you know of the game. You should be a shamed of yourself for being in the game longer than me yet knowing less of it than me; you can't even spell my simple name right.


Ok, La Bar mitsvah, let me ask you a question, which is more economically sensible, to buy two highly trained toons and put them on your main account as alts, or set up two alt accounts to keep your super caps on? Because if you're tooling around in a supercap you're probably not swinging solo. I know there are guys that do, but most are in alliances.

Or are you actually suggesting that goonswarm really is just five guys multiboxing?

You're also implying that your killmails about bagging super caps when blowing up POS are a lie, btw.


Is it such a hard to thing to understand that an unsubscribed holding account would be in possession of a supercap? You've been in this game how much longer than me and you can't fathom that?

E: Forget it I drank to much today, you're being willfully obtuse and should be ignored.

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