These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Ships & Modules

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
Previous page123Next page
 

Cheap but effective Paladin fit

Author
Illiar D'Anaari
Lassandar
#21 - 2014-05-08 02:52:00 UTC
Reiisha wrote:
Say you do get put into the middle of things and want to stay there, what kind of DPS would you need to tank if aggro'ing an entire room in Worlds Collide?

Just as an aside.




I'll probably experiment with the fits in the above posts. I'll start with my own and will move to more TC/TE depending on how the missions go. Somehow i keep being a bit weary of being unable to permatank at least 1k dps...


There are fringe cases that would overpower a "simple" 1k dps tank. According to eve-survival, full room aggro in WC is somewhere in the vicinity of 1.5k dps. Letting all the waves spawn and then hopping into Enemies Abound 5/5 is upwards of 3k dps. You have to try really hard to need more than 1k dps tank, even more so considering you can fairly easily get 1.2k dps out of your paladin, meaning incoming dps will go down pretty fast.
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#22 - 2014-05-08 03:46:45 UTC
Reiisha wrote:
Somehow i keep being a bit weary of being unable to permatank at least 1k dps...

Perma tank at least 1k DPS...

Wow before Marauders had Bastion did you run missions in an Archon? Lol
Reiisha
#23 - 2014-05-08 03:51:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Reiisha
IIshira wrote:
Reiisha wrote:
Somehow i keep being a bit weary of being unable to permatank at least 1k dps...

Perma tank at least 1k DPS...

Wow before Marauders had Bastion did you run missions in an Archon? Lol


I had a faction fit which omni tanked roughly 800 dps. I didn't use it that much though, since my pala has some sentimental value to me (one of the first ones ever built, built it myself, it's over 6 years old). I might just get a new one for that reason ;p

If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all...

chaosgrimm
Synth Tech
#24 - 2014-05-08 04:08:46 UTC
Reiisha wrote:
Say you do get put into the middle of things and want to stay there, what kind of DPS would you need to tank if aggro'ing an entire room in Worlds Collide?

Just as an aside.




I'll probably experiment with the fits in the above posts. I'll start with my own and will move to more TC/TE depending on how the missions go. Somehow i keep being a bit weary of being unable to permatank at least 1k dps...


Just to help guide u in the right direction or thought process:

How long does a long mission take? 20 mins? In that 20 mins how long do you need to run the rep / how much time can u allow cap to regen?

Stable cap certainly isn't required. If you sac some cap to build your dps/ applied higher, ull kill off the incoming dmg quicker, and will need to use the rep less often.



Concerning tank, even if ur ehp/sec is lower than the dps of the room, you just need it to last long enough to kill off the dps until ur tank is able to keep up.

Another thing to consider is that you don't always need to tank the whole room. I haven't had the opportunity to play each version of worlds collide, but at least the ones I've played allow you to kill groups within a pocket, without aggroing the whole pocket. I'm assuming ur talking about the blood raider + angel version. It is possible to not aggro the entire pockets in that version
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#25 - 2014-05-08 10:21:03 UTC
Reiisha wrote:
IIshira wrote:
Reiisha wrote:
Somehow i keep being a bit weary of being unable to permatank at least 1k dps...

Perma tank at least 1k DPS...

Wow before Marauders had Bastion did you run missions in an Archon? Lol


I had a faction fit which omni tanked roughly 800 dps. I didn't use it that much though, since my pala has some sentimental value to me (one of the first ones ever built, built it myself, it's over 6 years old). I might just get a new one for that reason ;p


I just noticed your post asking "Say you do get put into the middle of things" The trick I've found is keep range. That's what the MJD is for. The beam lasers will do better damage since tracking is less of an issue and most NPC's won't be able to hit you. If you try an in your face approach you're going to get smashed P

I think something like the Navy Raven would suffer less if you want heavy tank since you don't have to take out damage mods for tanking ones. Plus shield just tanks better. Yea you won't have target painters but with the ships bonuses and rigor rigs you can get away without them.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#26 - 2014-05-08 15:17:22 UTC
IIshira wrote:
Just curious but tractor beams to loot? When I kill NPC's I'm at MJD range and far out of tractor beam range. I have one to scoop the mission item but I don't see the point of MJD back in and trying to loot the mission with three unbonused tractor beams. It would be faster for me to dock up and get a Noctis.

I'm usually just heading to the next missions if I don't have someone who wants to salvage for me.

in case this is still relevant: for now, looting at least battleship wrecks while you're shooting their buddies can boost your effective isk/hour by quite a margin. as for salvaging in a noctis, i would not bother unless you run several missions at once and drop and bookmark MTUs in all mission pockets. with the upcoming loot nerf, even this strategy will become barely viable, so I would advise to not waste any time looting when you could be shooting.

I should buy an Ishtar.

Nam Dnilb
Universal Frog
#27 - 2014-05-08 18:29:15 UTC
So many fits linked, not one with the correct rig choice for a Paladin. This makes me sad. Shocked

Alright then, listen up: You excel at smashing things from range. R-A-N-G-E. Let that sink in and try again. P
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#28 - 2014-05-08 19:41:43 UTC
Daniel Plain wrote:
IIshira wrote:
Just curious but tractor beams to loot? When I kill NPC's I'm at MJD range and far out of tractor beam range. I have one to scoop the mission item but I don't see the point of MJD back in and trying to loot the mission with three unbonused tractor beams. It would be faster for me to dock up and get a Noctis.

I'm usually just heading to the next missions if I don't have someone who wants to salvage for me.

in case this is still relevant: for now, looting at least battleship wrecks while you're shooting their buddies can boost your effective isk/hour by quite a margin. as for salvaging in a noctis, i would not bother unless you run several missions at once and drop and bookmark MTUs in all mission pockets. with the upcoming loot nerf, even this strategy will become barely viable, so I would advise to not waste any time looting when you could be shooting.

I'm shooting from at least 70 km. This is beyond tractor beam range.

Are you shooting up close? If so maybe you should go with megapulse lasers.
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#29 - 2014-05-08 19:43:30 UTC
Nam Dnilb wrote:
So many fits linked, not one with the correct rig choice for a Paladin. This makes me sad. Shocked

Alright then, listen up: You excel at smashing things from range. R-A-N-G-E. Let that sink in and try again. P


If I remember right range rigs have stacking penalties with tracking computers. I'm not at my PC so not sure how it looks on EFT
Nam Dnilb
Universal Frog
#30 - 2014-05-08 20:01:38 UTC
IIshira wrote:
If I remember right range rigs have stacking penalties with tracking computers. I'm not at my PC so not sure how it looks on EFT


Yes, but the bonus is higher than a range scripted TC for the T2 rig. T1 is meh, don't bother. Obvious downside is you have to be at range all the time. I find this acceptable.
Valleria Darkmoon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#31 - 2014-05-08 21:15:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Valleria Darkmoon
One of the wonders of the bastion module is how much tank you get for so little effort and although I use a Golem I can't imagine the tanking principle changes much. You want just enough tank to get through the missions and you want to put your money into damage and application.

Spend any money you spend on faction modules on heat sinks and tracking computers (faction heat sinks are not overly expensive and you will be able to quickly recoup the cost with a paladin) your tank should absolutely be T2, my Golem easily tanks any level 4 on T2 XL booster, two invulns and the bastion mod and I only cycle the booster once any time I fall to 65% shield, meaning that in most missions with no cap mods at all I never even come close to capping out. The damage you take for 0 m/s is pretty high but tankable until you've killed enough of the dps that it doesn't matter any more, Worlds Collide I don't take full aggro in any pocket but will often have to cycle the booster often enough in the last pocket but still get nowhere close to capping out. Tanking anymore damage than that is wasted effort and trying to be cap stable to perma tank that is wasted damage. Swap your cap mods for tracking computers and faction your heat sinks (My only faction mods are target painters and BCUs). Faster missions is faster ISK.

The MJD is also debatable, I've found in many cases any acceleration gates I need to get to are often either very close meaning I don't need a prop mod or are ~30-50 km. In that case the MJD doesn't help you get there so much as you'll have to fly the 30 - 50 km at one end or the other which is why I generally prefer a traditional prop mod. In your case though you may have to worry about tracking and the MJD will help you get range to set up so missions that put you in close you may still want it.

Reality has an almost infinite capacity to resist oversimplification.

Illiar D'Anaari
Lassandar
#32 - 2014-05-08 21:29:35 UTC
Nam Dnilb wrote:
So many fits linked, not one with the correct rig choice for a Paladin. This makes me sad. Shocked

Alright then, listen up: You excel at smashing things from range. R-A-N-G-E. Let that sink in and try again. P


So only one way to fly huh? :P

I find the Paladin is quite capable of smashing things point blank too. 1.3k dps with enough tracking to hit even some frigates at close range compares very well to other close range brawlers.
If you like to use tachs from far away, that's fine. But it's not the only way to do it. And with massive range as is with 3 TC, I find the range rig choice dubious at best. I get 72 km optimal with MF, nearly 100 km at half falloff. How's that not enough range?
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#33 - 2014-05-08 22:29:08 UTC  |  Edited by: IIshira
Illiar D'Anaari wrote:
Nam Dnilb wrote:
So many fits linked, not one with the correct rig choice for a Paladin. This makes me sad. Shocked

Alright then, listen up: You excel at smashing things from range. R-A-N-G-E. Let that sink in and try again. P


So only one way to fly huh? :P

I find the Paladin is quite capable of smashing things point blank too. 1.3k dps with enough tracking to hit even some frigates at close range compares very well to other close range brawlers.
If you like to use tachs from far away, that's fine. But it's not the only way to do it. And with massive range as is with 3 TC, I find the range rig choice dubious at best. I get 72 km optimal with MF, nearly 100 km at half falloff. How's that not enough range?


Here's what I get from EFT using Mega Pulse Laser II. You can get 60 more DPS/ over twice the tracking speed with IN MF or 187 more DPS/50 percent better tracking with Conflagration. Either way you're putting a whole lot more DPS on target. If you like "smashing things point blank" you might want to consider this. Even the worse tracking pulse ammo (Conflagration) does way better than the best tracking beam ammo (Gleam).


I personally use a tach Paladin for the 72 km range. I find most Sansha or BR NPC rats don't even scratch my paint that far away.
Nam Dnilb
Universal Frog
#34 - 2014-05-08 22:40:59 UTC
Illiar D'Anaari wrote:
Nam Dnilb wrote:
So many fits linked, not one with the correct rig choice for a Paladin. This makes me sad. Shocked

Alright then, listen up: You excel at smashing things from range. R-A-N-G-E. Let that sink in and try again. P


So only one way to fly huh? :P


Admittedly it is a bit of a one trick pony, but it's one hell of a trick and it makes me giggle like a crazy person. All the time.



Illiar D'Anaari
Lassandar
#35 - 2014-05-08 23:41:40 UTC
IIshira wrote:
Illiar D'Anaari wrote:
Nam Dnilb wrote:
So many fits linked, not one with the correct rig choice for a Paladin. This makes me sad. Shocked

Alright then, listen up: You excel at smashing things from range. R-A-N-G-E. Let that sink in and try again. P


So only one way to fly huh? :P

I find the Paladin is quite capable of smashing things point blank too. 1.3k dps with enough tracking to hit even some frigates at close range compares very well to other close range brawlers.
If you like to use tachs from far away, that's fine. But it's not the only way to do it. And with massive range as is with 3 TC, I find the range rig choice dubious at best. I get 72 km optimal with MF, nearly 100 km at half falloff. How's that not enough range?


Here's what I get from EFT using Mega Pulse Laser II. You can get 60 more DPS/ over twice the tracking speed with IN MF or 187 more DPS/50 percent better tracking with Conflagration. Either way you're putting a whole lot more DPS on target. If you like "smashing things point blank" you might want to consider this. Even the worse tracking pulse ammo (Conflagration) does way better than the best tracking beam ammo (Gleam).


I personally use a tach Paladin for the 72 km range. I find most Sansha or BR NPC rats don't even scratch my paint that far away.


Oh I do use pulses for close range, if most spawns in a mission will be within 45 km. The tracking is by far superior to tachs+gleam+3 tc, obviously. And anyway, I don't get 1.3k dps with tachs ;)

But I'll use tachs if most spawns in a mission are beyond 45km. Tachs+INMF>Pulse+Scorch.

I really don't think the Paladin is a one trick pony. It's a massive tank, massive dps beast, with a very large engagement range to boot. It's the reason why I picked it over the Kronos. Blasters deal more damage up close but the range is really low, even with Null, and the damage with Rails was very close to Tachs.
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#36 - 2014-05-09 04:08:35 UTC
Illiar D'Anaari wrote:

Oh I do use pulses for close range, if most spawns in a mission will be within 45 km. The tracking is by far superior to tachs+gleam+3 tc, obviously. And anyway, I don't get 1.3k dps with tachs ;)

But I'll use tachs if most spawns in a mission are beyond 45km. Tachs+INMF>Pulse+Scorch.

I really don't think the Paladin is a one trick pony. It's a massive tank, massive dps beast, with a very large engagement range to boot. It's the reason why I picked it over the Kronos. Blasters deal more damage up close but the range is really low, even with Null, and the damage with Rails was very close to Tachs.

Okay that clears up some of my confusion.

Right now on my tach setup it's a LAR, DC and EANM. The DC is in case I do a "Oh crap that was ********" move and it's more than enough tank since I rarely take much damage at range. By the time stuff thinks about moving closer it's dead.

What is your tank setup for in close? Do you have to take care not to pull full room aggro?
Odithia
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#37 - 2014-05-09 05:46:04 UTC
IIshira wrote:
[quote=Illiar D'Anaari]
What is your tank setup for in close? Do you have to take care not to pull full room aggro?

LAR, DC and EANM are enough for Pulse Build, you need to watch aggro on those Gurristas missions because it will take a while to destroy enough of them so that you take less damage.
That's the reason why I bought an Imperial Navy repper.

Maybe I should get a T2 fit Raven just for these Gurristas missions, they make me really hate the Paladin.


Unrelated question, for tach build, is there a range after with the NPC stop jamming/tracking disrupting/damping you ?
Danglabesh
Absolute Order
Absolute Honor
#38 - 2014-05-09 07:31:18 UTC
Valleria Darkmoon wrote:

...

The MJD is also debatable, I've found in many cases any acceleration gates I need to get to are often either very close meaning I don't need a prop mod or are ~30-50 km. In that case the MJD doesn't help you get there so much as you'll have to fly the 30 - 50 km at one end or the other which is why I generally prefer a traditional prop mod. In your case though you may have to worry about tracking and the MJD will help you get range to set up so missions that put you in close you may still want it.


Since LMJD are debatable i will give it a try.

Paladin
Role Bonus:
100% bonus to large energy weapon damage, 100% bonus to range and velocity of tractor beams, 70% reduction in Micro Jump Drive reactivation delay

LMJD
Reactivation Delay: 180 sec
Cap Cost: 786 GJ

So with a 70% reduction we get
180 * (1 - 0.7) = 54

Which means we can use the LMJD roughly every minute.
Now we add some geometry. In this case we need a equilateral triangle.

[img]http://www.mathe-lexikon.at/media/advanced_pictures/gleichschenklige_dreiecke_-_aehnlichkeit.jpg [/img]

So we only need 2 activations at the cost of 786 GJ per jump to get to a desired destination.
All we have to do to get from point A to point C is to align our ship in the correct angle to point B and do the first jump.
Then after 54sec which we wisely used to align our ship to point C we do the second and final jump and arrive at our destination point C. Time required 108 sec. Cap required 1572 GJ.


Illiar D'Anaari
Lassandar
#39 - 2014-05-09 11:00:06 UTC
IIshira wrote:
Illiar D'Anaari wrote:

Oh I do use pulses for close range, if most spawns in a mission will be within 45 km. The tracking is by far superior to tachs+gleam+3 tc, obviously. And anyway, I don't get 1.3k dps with tachs ;)

But I'll use tachs if most spawns in a mission are beyond 45km. Tachs+INMF>Pulse+Scorch.

I really don't think the Paladin is a one trick pony. It's a massive tank, massive dps beast, with a very large engagement range to boot. It's the reason why I picked it over the Kronos. Blasters deal more damage up close but the range is really low, even with Null, and the damage with Rails was very close to Tachs.

Okay that clears up some of my confusion.

Right now on my tach setup it's a LAR, DC and EANM. The DC is in case I do a "Oh crap that was ********" move and it's more than enough tank since I rarely take much damage at range. By the time stuff thinks about moving closer it's dead.

What is your tank setup for in close? Do you have to take care not to pull full room aggro?


Tach or pulse, I use 1 EANM2, 1 RAH and 1 faction LAR.
Vtra
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2014-05-09 14:25:43 UTC
[Paladin, Paladin fit]

Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Tracking Enhancer II
Large Armor Repairer II
Centum C-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Centum C-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane

Large Micro Jump Drive
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script

Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Bastion Module I
Drone Link Augmentor I
Salvager II
Small Tractor Beam II

Large Energy Burst Aerator II
Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I


Acolyte II x5

If the gate is 50k away Jump straight up then to the gate and bam you are on it at 0.... lrntoMJD

over 1k dps out of guns with +3 implants. Split into 2 sets of 2 Keep Navy Multis, Navy Gammas and Navy XRay and you are covered up to 100k Optimals, 71k Optimal with Multi's with double Optimal scripts.
Previous page123Next page