EVE General Discussion

I think she/he was referring to miners in regard to the topic, not miners in general... then again, as an industriualist first and foremost, I saw commentary like that time and time again over the years, coming from the PvP crowd... it's just who they are, I guess. *shrugs*

I think that is the point, too. Mining and PvP feed each other in Eve, Mining gets stuff build, PvP make mining harder so stuff costs more... Blah blah blah. But the current goals are a the point here, and Mining is way ahead of the other areas. (By more than 10% points in most cases.)

Currently (as I post) Mining is 34% of the way to its 25.7Bil goal. While Isk Destroyed (i.e. PvP) has a 5.34 Tril isk goal with only 22% of it met.

Some good fleet battles can pump that up a few of billion per engagement, especially if capitals are involved and get popped. But for general PvP'ers (Ganks, Camps, and Solo, etc) they are going to have a much harder time and have to look for the highest isk targets to go after. Orcas, freighters etc... They could maybe target l4 mission runners (Marauders), and the SoE Cruisers and BS, but in the end Mining is still going to pull out a head because a low skill miner (>1 month old in a free Venture) can make 5 to 20mil isk per hour in highsec, and have little to worry about... A fleet of with Macs and Orcas in high have Concord protecting them from PvP even in 0.5, and their isk/hr is much higher than that lone Venture mining Veldspar (not to mention that they can strip entire belts in a system plus any random ore encounters rather quickly.)

True, mining and PvP feed each other... or atleast they should... as in: We mine the minerals ships are made of, and you destroy said ships in PvP... all ships, mind you, not just ours... I know, that concept is a little hard to grasp for some.

But I guess the reason miners are ahead right now has already been stated: Most of us mine each day, more or less, but PvP is more of a weekend warrior activity. Also: Roaming and looking for easy prey is time cosuming, so it would be logical for most solo/small gang PvPers to not really contribute THAT much to the goals at hand right now.

I'm not saying most PvPers are lazy cowards... oh, wait, I think I just did... hm.

Hardly... the difference is, we do it because it is our choosen play style - some of us dedicated the better part of the last decade to it, gankers do it cause they can not be a**ed to do anything other then punp up their tiny... egos... like real PvP.

I agree. I think a few people (like Scipio) made this point in the thread earlier as well.

PVP can sometimes be a crapshoot. Sometimes you roam and you happen to have a ship that does very well in the situations you run into. Sometimes your fit gets jumped by somebody else who happens to have played against your weakness. In those situations, you simply met your fate.. there wasn't much you could have done about it. There are many no-win scenarios in PVP.

The mining-ganker ecosystem, is similar, in my mind. You can take measures to protect yourself. Sometimes random chance is in your favor. Sometimes the ganker has you, either because of a gap in your tank, or because of numbers, or timing. But the major difference here is the sheer number of players who are stepping out of stations without being equipped to withstand being shot at. Many of these players treat their environment as if it comes with a 100% guarantee.

I think the point is that miners (heck, anybody) should undock with the notion that you are in PVP. You don't have to pew pew to PVP. Escaping is part of PVP. Jamming and slipping away is part of PVP. Changing your habits and finding new systems to operate is part of PVP. This game isn't here so that we can interact just with rocks.

And I apologize for the bait post. We all do things to amuse ourselves, sometimes..

I think it is definitely tricky. I think the "economics of fun" (is that a term?) is slated more towards cooperative PVPing vs. cooperative mining (which is about as prevalent as cooperative explo or missioning.. not L5s of course). So sometimes using WTs in Local and getting lucky on Dscan spamming is all you have.


I actually don't mean you. I spend a lot of time in the Help/Rookie Help channels and it is unbelievably difficult to convince players to be paranoid, even in hisec (much less lowsec and null). I don't even mean having unhealthy amounts of paranoia (like I do!), I mean taking some simple measures to harden up their fits, or best practices when playing. The discussions range between highly recommended risk averse behavior from other players, or lambasting me for making things up about the game.

That's 25 billion m3 ... not 25 billion ISK.

(Note all following numbers are calculated "on the fly", and so I might be missing skills and/or other things)

Some low-skill peasant in a Venture isn't going to be helping that much -- even if they're fully maxxed out, they're only getting about 420 m3 per cycle (60s). A nearly maxxed out hulk (l4 exhumers) will pull in about 3800 m3 / cycle (180s) [1266/minute] -- fully maxxed out, and you're pulling in just over 3900 m3/cycle [1300/minute]. This is before any fleet boosts, or taking into consideration fittings and/or implants.

As I said, I know how to protect myself, and I know that any protection can be countered... I'm talking about the players that don't know/care, no matter the reason.

CONCORD does neither protect nor punish, it's supposed to be the one power block that is capable of keeping the capsuleers on check... for now, but it's useless as a game mechanic, because players can calculate it/work around it.

Wait... what was the topic again?

Are we still talking about a game or real life issue here ? / chillpill

I haven't read through the whole page, just picked your post.

Anyhow ... assumptions... not really,
unless you write crap you don't actually mean.

Which would make you even more of an *******,
because the only reason you post is to bait others.


Ah, I guess you mentioned that already.