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Cheap but effective Paladin fit
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Reiisha
#1 - 2014-05-07 00:30:55 UTC
I'm looking for ways to fit a paladin somewhat cheaply. It seems to be rather easy, but i have some options i can't decide between.

This is the current option i think i might go for:

[Paladin, Missions]
Large Armor Repairer II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Armor EM Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II

Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Large Micro Jump Drive

Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Small Tractor Beam II
Small Tractor Beam II
Small Tractor Beam II
Bastion Module I

Large Auxiliary Nano Pump II
Large Auxiliary Nano Pump II

Hobgoblin II x5




Why the tractor beams? Multitasking, bringing in loot in combination with an MTU. ATM i don't really care about salvaging at this point. The salvage i usually ended up getting from missions before turned out to be mostly not worth the time spent on it (drones + salvagers on the pala), so i might as well focus on getting loot while doing the mission and leaving everything else.

I also never used tracking mods, i never really felt i needed them. Most things burn from one shotting them as they fly at me, otherwise i just mjd and put some distance between the npc's and me.

The armor hardeners can be switched as necessary, obviously.

I used to fly a very different, far less useful setup (i just added a bastion mod to an ancient setup i used since 2008), hence i'm looking for a base to build on. Cap stable is a requirement i just want for convenience, i don't need to super-blitz missions, nor do i want to depend on cap charges.

Currently i've got a few options:
- Exchange the EANM for another LAR. I'll have enough cap to use both for 5-10 minutes if the need arises, but it might be a waste of space - I also need to use a cap control circuit instead of an aux rig if i go for that option. I can tank a stupid amount of dps this way though.
- Exchange the EANM for a MAR. I still need to use a CCC in the rigs to sustain this. I'll have a lot of cap leftover though, but it doesn't repair that much more than a single LAR + eanm + aux nano (like the setup above).
- Keep it like it is now. It tanks over 2k dps for any mission i'd want to fly except drones and still does roughly 900 dps (without drones).

To re-iterate: I don't want a setup that needs constant micro managing. I know there's more efficient setups in terms of isk/hour, but that's not what i'm looking for. The input i'm looking for here is mostly concerning the amount of DPS i should be able to tank in bastion. I'm fairly sure 2k will be enough, at least to buy time to kill everything that's shooting at me if it goes over. The dual LAR setup would help here, but i'm not sure it's necessary given the need for micro management.

As far as the cheap thing goes, it's mostly to get something efficient running without the need for faction mods. I think everyone can think of a reason for that.

If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all...
Illiar D'Anaari
Lassandar
#2 - 2014-05-07 01:14:04 UTC
Ditch the cap modules. For 90% of missions I don't need any, and for the longer ones I usually manage with 5 cap charges with a booster. You're also vastly overtanked.

Here's the setup I use. I replaced the few faction mods I have with T2 in this fit.

[Paladin, Beams]
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Large Armor Repairer II

Prototype 100MN Microwarpdrive I
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script

Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Bastion Module I
[empty high slot]
Small Tractor Beam I
Small Tractor Beam I

Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Large Energy Burst Aerator II

Hobgoblin II x10
Salvage Drone I x5

This setup tanks about 1k dps, which has been more than enough in all the missions I've run. I swap in Mega Pulse for missions where more rats are below 40km, since the dps difference between Tachs with Gleam/INMF and MP with Conflag is very significant.
If you use the MJD, you could probably only use a LAR2 and a nano pump as tank slots, fit some TE in the lows and keep some cap mods if they make you more secure, but they'll be even less needed as you probably won't drop below shield.

Tracking mods are not -necessary-, but they'll improve your range and tracking by a large margin.

I used to make my ships cap stable and since I switched to unstable setup, I would never go back. It's both more fun and efficient.
Reiisha
#3 - 2014-05-07 02:05:05 UTC
Illiar D'Anaari wrote:
Ditch the cap modules. For 90% of missions I don't need any, and for the longer ones I usually manage with 5 cap charges with a booster. You're also vastly overtanked.

Here's the setup I use. I replaced the few faction mods I have with T2 in this fit.

[Paladin, Beams]
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Large Armor Repairer II

Prototype 100MN Microwarpdrive I
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script

Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Bastion Module I
[empty high slot]
Small Tractor Beam I
Small Tractor Beam I

Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Large Energy Burst Aerator II

Hobgoblin II x10
Salvage Drone I x5

This setup tanks about 1k dps, which has been more than enough in all the missions I've run. I swap in Mega Pulse for missions where more rats are below 40km, since the dps difference between Tachs with Gleam/INMF and MP with Conflag is very significant.
If you use the MJD, you could probably only use a LAR2 and a nano pump as tank slots, fit some TE in the lows and keep some cap mods if they make you more secure, but they'll be even less needed as you probably won't drop below shield.

Tracking mods are not -necessary-, but they'll improve your range and tracking by a large margin.

I used to make my ships cap stable and since I switched to unstable setup, I would never go back. It's both more fun and efficient.


Optimal range seems a bit redundant...

Still not entirely convinced about the unstable setup - I sometimes have trouble concentrating, something that can tank well and is cap stable has prevented me from losing a couple of ships already ;p

I think i'll try a TE instead of the EANM to begin with, i might switch out an aux for a burst later on as well depending on how much dps is shelled out at missions. Once i have some more isk to risk losing a couple of marauders i might try your setup though, it does seem interesting (assuming tracking scripts should be used as well).

If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all...
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2014-05-07 03:04:46 UTC
If you want to run a constant tank with bastion you may want to look at running a medium rep instead of a large. Well skilled it can run a 400DPS omni tank in bastion with just a pair of EAMN II's. This will help free up some cap to consider putting tracking comps in the mids which do help.
Illiar D'Anaari
Lassandar
#5 - 2014-05-07 03:15:24 UTC
Tracking scripts are important mostly on a Tach setup since it'll allow to track cruisers when combined with Gleam.

Optimal range script are good because they get you to 73 km optimal with multifrequency+tachs, meaning you'll be dealing maximum damage (1015 dps) most of the time (and 80% at 98 km). Without the scripts, the range drops to 57 km, and 80% damage output at 72 km.

With Megapulse, I get an optimal of 33km (1198 dps with my skills/implants), 80% damage (958 dps) at 43km. Using Multifreq with 3 tracking scripts allows me to hit even frigates in close orbit (no clean hits and not all shots hit of course, but still impressive IMO)

I use a faction LAR and with Marauder IV I repair just shy of 3000 armor per cycle, so I basically pulse it every now and then when I've taken enough damage. If you manage triggers well, the amount of tank even on my setup is overkill. With a cap booster I can actually ignore triggers entirely and just destroy anything in any order and still get by.
chaosgrimm
Synth Tech
#6 - 2014-05-07 05:05:40 UTC
Too much:
Cap
Tank

Not enough:
Dmg
Applied dmg
Odithia
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2014-05-07 05:51:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Odithia
Replace faction with T2 according to budget.
The faction MWD is a huge help to capacitor, replace with an AB if you don't want to buy one.

Sebo is mostly used with a Scan Resolution script.

Open to ideas about what to fit in the two remaining hi-slots.

If you build it cheap enough, you may not need a Damage Control (Gank Control). Good replacement would be : another EANM, a Tracking Enhancer, a Signal Amplifier, a Capacitor Power Relay or maybe an Inertia Stabilizers.

Don't put a Medium Armor Rep on it, you might and probably will need the extra boost, even if it is not sustainable.

[Paladin, Paladin Tach]
Imperial Navy Large Armor Repairer
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Damage Control II
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink

Tracking Computer II
Sensor Booster II
Large Micro Jump Drive
Core B-Type 100MN Microwarpdrive

Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Bastion Module I
Small Tractor Beam I
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Large Energy Collision Accelerator II
Large Energy Discharge Elutriation I




[Paladin, Paladin Pulse]
Imperial Navy Large Armor Repairer
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Damage Control II
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink

Tracking Computer II
Tracking Computer II
Sensor Booster II
Core C-Type 100MN Microwarpdrive

Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Bastion Module I
Small Tractor Beam I
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Large Energy Collision Accelerator II
Large Energy Discharge Elutriation I
Kosetzu
The Black Crow Bandits
Northern Coalition.
#8 - 2014-05-07 09:22:43 UTC
My personal experience is that too few missions require MJD, so it's better to use an MWD.

Medium repper is plenty if you're lazy. Use Reactive Armor Hardener + EANM for resists, rest heatsinks.

2-3 Tracking Computers, with both scripts in cargo (nice to snipe out to 100km+ with pulses). Beams are a total waste on a ship that gets over 100km range with Scorch in just about every situation. the tracking on Beams is terrible compared to Pulses as well so even if they claim better dps and some odd range you're still applying it better with pulses.

Burst Aerator rig, T2. Best rig you can use. The last few calibration points is up to you really. Until the drone rebalance hits 5x Warriors, 5x Hobgoblins and either 5x salvage or perhaps even Hornets (yes they're not as bad s everyone claims).
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#9 - 2014-05-07 10:09:54 UTC
[Paladin, Missions]
Large Armor Repairer II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Armor EM Hardener II Dmg Ctrl II
Armor Thermic Hardener II Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II

Cap Recharger II sebo + range script
Cap Recharger II tracking computer + range script
Cap Recharger II something fun
Large Micro Jump Drive

Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Small Tractor Beam II
Small Tractor Beam II festive launcher
Small Tractor Beam II reserved for corpse launcher-
Bastion Module I

Large Auxiliary Nano Pump II
Large Auxiliary Nano Pump II

Hobgoblin II x5

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#10 - 2014-05-07 14:34:03 UTC  |  Edited by: IIshira
Trying to make a Paladin cap stable will get you a fail fit

Basics are
Lows
4 heat sinks (Why would you not want the most DPS)
2 Hardeners (2 active, 2 EANM, whatever)
1 LAR

Mids
3 TC (More applied DPS)
1 MJD

Highs
4 T2 Tachs
1 Bastion module

Rigs
1 T2 ROF
1 CCC or whatever

Don't be cheap on a billion ISK hull. Spend the extra ISK for faction heat sinks and LAR. The rest can be T2.

If you need something for a bit more AFK play don't use a Paladin. You're just asking for a loss mail. Use a Navy Dominix or something.
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#11 - 2014-05-07 14:42:54 UTC
Just curious but tractor beams to loot? When I kill NPC's I'm at MJD range and far out of tractor beam range. I have one to scoop the mission item but I don't see the point of MJD back in and trying to loot the mission with three unbonused tractor beams. It would be faster for me to dock up and get a Noctis.

I'm usually just heading to the next missions if I don't have someone who wants to salvage for me.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#12 - 2014-05-07 16:33:05 UTC
Marauders have midslots so they can fit tracking computers. Get some tracking computers.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2014-05-07 19:48:10 UTC
IIshira wrote:
Trying to make a Paladin cap stable will get you a fail fit

Basics are
Lows
4 heat sinks (Why would you not want the most DPS)
2 Hardeners (2 active, 2 EANM, whatever)
1 LAR

Mids
3 TC (More applied DPS)
1 MJD

Highs
4 T2 Tachs
1 Bastion module

Rigs
1 T2 ROF
1 CCC or whatever

Don't be cheap on a billion ISK hull. Spend the extra ISK for faction heat sinks and LAR. The rest can be T2.

If you need something for a bit more AFK play don't use a Paladin. You're just asking for a loss mail. Use a Navy Dominix or something.
There is a difference between what the op is asking for and an AFK fit. A Paladin, and anything else really, especially marauders, can have really low interaction fittings. Really it does so much better than any T1 hull that even cheap fit it can put faction fit T1 ships to shame. With ewar on the field the difference becomes that much greater.
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#14 - 2014-05-07 19:58:45 UTC  |  Edited by: IIshira
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
IIshira wrote:
Trying to make a Paladin cap stable will get you a fail fit

Basics are
Lows
4 heat sinks (Why would you not want the most DPS)
2 Hardeners (2 active, 2 EANM, whatever)
1 LAR

Mids
3 TC (More applied DPS)
1 MJD

Highs
4 T2 Tachs
1 Bastion module

Rigs
1 T2 ROF
1 CCC or whatever

Don't be cheap on a billion ISK hull. Spend the extra ISK for faction heat sinks and LAR. The rest can be T2.

If you need something for a bit more AFK play don't use a Paladin. You're just asking for a loss mail. Use a Navy Dominix or something.
There is a difference between what the op is asking for and an AFK fit. A Paladin, and anything else really, especially marauders, can have really low interaction fittings. Really it does so much better than any T1 hull that even cheap fit it can put faction fit T1 ships to shame. With ewar on the field the difference becomes that much greater.


Since it pretty much instapops anything smaller than a cruiser I don't see how you can make it require less interaction. I keep having to target new ships as they die.

When it comes to tanking I might have to cycle the repper twice in a mission.

IMO putting a bunch of cap mods on a Paladin is a failfit but to each his own. I know something that flew an armor tanked Raven. To me it was failfit but to him he was happy.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2014-05-07 20:07:06 UTC
IIshira wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
IIshira wrote:
Trying to make a Paladin cap stable will get you a fail fit

Basics are
Lows
4 heat sinks (Why would you not want the most DPS)
2 Hardeners (2 active, 2 EANM, whatever)
1 LAR

Mids
3 TC (More applied DPS)
1 MJD

Highs
4 T2 Tachs
1 Bastion module

Rigs
1 T2 ROF
1 CCC or whatever

Don't be cheap on a billion ISK hull. Spend the extra ISK for faction heat sinks and LAR. The rest can be T2.

If you need something for a bit more AFK play don't use a Paladin. You're just asking for a loss mail. Use a Navy Dominix or something.
There is a difference between what the op is asking for and an AFK fit. A Paladin, and anything else really, especially marauders, can have really low interaction fittings. Really it does so much better than any T1 hull that even cheap fit it can put faction fit T1 ships to shame. With ewar on the field the difference becomes that much greater.


Since it pretty much instapops anything smaller than a cruiser I don't see how you can make it require less interaction. I keep having to target new ships as they die.

When it comes to tanking I might have to cycle the repper twice in a mission.

IMO putting a bunch of cap mods on a Paladin is a failfit but to each his own. I know something that flew an armor tanked Raven. To me it was failfit but to him he was happy.
I was referring to tank as far as interaction goes, some people prefer a set and forget tank. I've endangered my ships in ways the rats never could just by forgetting to turn the tank off when only meaning to leave it on for a few pulses which meant not having the cap when I needed it. Sometimes people just don't want to deal with that possibility.

Granted if you plan on running at range with tachs a LAR, even a T2 LAR, is overkill with bastion. I can run a MAR for long periods with some cap help, but not as much as the op has. It's not as effective as a LAR pulsing fit, but the gulf isn't nearly the same as permarunning a LAR and depriving yourself of TC's.
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#16 - 2014-05-07 21:51:41 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
IIshira wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
IIshira wrote:
Trying to make a Paladin cap stable will get you a fail fit

Basics are
Lows
4 heat sinks (Why would you not want the most DPS)
2 Hardeners (2 active, 2 EANM, whatever)
1 LAR

Mids
3 TC (More applied DPS)
1 MJD

Highs
4 T2 Tachs
1 Bastion module

Rigs
1 T2 ROF
1 CCC or whatever

Don't be cheap on a billion ISK hull. Spend the extra ISK for faction heat sinks and LAR. The rest can be T2.

If you need something for a bit more AFK play don't use a Paladin. You're just asking for a loss mail. Use a Navy Dominix or something.
There is a difference between what the op is asking for and an AFK fit. A Paladin, and anything else really, especially marauders, can have really low interaction fittings. Really it does so much better than any T1 hull that even cheap fit it can put faction fit T1 ships to shame. With ewar on the field the difference becomes that much greater.


Since it pretty much instapops anything smaller than a cruiser I don't see how you can make it require less interaction. I keep having to target new ships as they die.

When it comes to tanking I might have to cycle the repper twice in a mission.

IMO putting a bunch of cap mods on a Paladin is a failfit but to each his own. I know something that flew an armor tanked Raven. To me it was failfit but to him he was happy.
I was referring to tank as far as interaction goes, some people prefer a set and forget tank. I've endangered my ships in ways the rats never could just by forgetting to turn the tank off when only meaning to leave it on for a few pulses which meant not having the cap when I needed it. Sometimes people just don't want to deal with that possibility.

Granted if you plan on running at range with tachs a LAR, even a T2 LAR, is overkill with bastion. I can run a MAR for long periods with some cap help, but not as much as the op has. It's not as effective as a LAR pulsing fit, but the gulf isn't nearly the same as permarunning a LAR and depriving yourself of TC's.


I guess if you can't remember to turn off your repper a MAR would be a fix to that. A better option would be right clicking the LAR and clicking "Set Auto-Repeat Off". I rarely have to cycle my LAR more than twice since I use range to avoid most of the incoming DPS.

Either way it's not a big deal since what counts if the pilot is happy what he's flying.
VTyx Soul
Station Window Lickers
#17 - 2014-05-07 22:43:38 UTC
Terrible. Not one of you have fit the paladin correctly. If you want a real set up inbox me
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#18 - 2014-05-07 22:46:15 UTC
VTyx Soul wrote:
Terrible. Not one of you have fit the paladin correctly. If you want a real set up inbox me

Or you can link it here for everyone to see Big smile
Illiar D'Anaari
Lassandar
#19 - 2014-05-08 00:48:52 UTC
VTyx Soul wrote:
Terrible. Not one of you have fit the paladin correctly. If you want a real set up inbox me


Do enlighten us, oh wise one.
Reiisha
#20 - 2014-05-08 02:45:39 UTC
Say you do get put into the middle of things and want to stay there, what kind of DPS would you need to tank if aggro'ing an entire room in Worlds Collide?

Just as an aside.




I'll probably experiment with the fits in the above posts. I'll start with my own and will move to more TC/TE depending on how the missions go. Somehow i keep being a bit weary of being unable to permatank at least 1k dps...

If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all...
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