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Training roadmap from PvP noob to Pilgrim pilot
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Ryouma Kautsuo
#1 - 2014-05-06 18:26:24 UTC
After having spent a couple months mining and missioning, I decided it was time for a change of pace. Having no idea whatsoever about what I wanted to do, I downloaded the latest static data export and crafted a SQL query to spit out a random ship for me to aim towards. After a couple of unusable hits (unobtainable NPC faction ships, carriers that I don't stand any reasonable chance of skilling into), the query spit out a Pilgrim.

I've looked the ship over, and it seems like it could be really fun to fly. However, I don't think I should just train the skills for it and take it on a PvP roam. Given that this is a T2 cruiser and I plan to use it for PvP (something I have very little experience in), I think I should start out with a less expensive ship until I feel comfortable enough to fly it.

I'm looking at a few options for ship progression:

1. Crucifier -> Sentinel -> Arbitrator -> Pilgrim
This option seems like the most thorough route, but I worry that I might be wasting a lot of time skilling into the Sentinel when I mainly intend to use it as a stepping stone.

2. Arbitrator -> Pilgrim
This option has the advantage of bypassing frigates and therefor allowing me to get the complete hang of cruiser combat right from the start. The downside is that cruisers are much more expensive to replace than frigates and the costs of my early mistakes will probably add up pretty quickly.

3. Crucifier -> Arbitrator -> Pilgrim
This option sort of blends option 1 and option 2. I could start out with the Crucifier until I feel experienced enough to move up into an Arbitrator and wouldn't need to waste skill training time on the Sentinel. On the other hand, I could end up missing out on possibly valuable learning experience that I would get by flying a T2 frigate before moving into a cruiser.

I'm planning on mainly doing small gang PvP at first. I have a friend who already has a lot of combat-oriented skills, so I figure that he and I could make a decent team if I supported him with an EWAR ship. Any thoughts on whether any of the above options will work?
Last Wolf
Umbra Wing
#2 - 2014-05-06 18:34:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Last Wolf
There is also Cruicifier -> Dragoon -> Arbitrator -> Pilgrim.

Also, try the curse. It can choose more targets than the Pilgrim because It doesn't have to sit on top of your target to neut it. And it can shield tank and fit damage mods in the lows.

Only downside is it can't fit a cov-ops cloak.

That awkward moment at the Gentlemen's Club when you see your sister on the stage....and you're not sure where to put the money....
Ryouma Kautsuo
#3 - 2014-05-06 21:44:39 UTC
Last Wolf wrote:
There is also Cruicifier -> Dragoon -> Arbitrator -> Pilgrim.

Also, try the curse. It can choose more targets than the Pilgrim because It doesn't have to sit on top of your target to neut it. And it can shield tank and fit damage mods in the lows.

Only downside is it can't fit a cov-ops cloak.


I hadn't considered the Dragoon. That would probably make a much better transition into the Arbitrator than the Sentinel would. Thanks!

I will definitely look into the Curse more. I'll probably end up using both of them at different times depending on what I want to accomplish.
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2014-05-07 01:21:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Hasikan Miallok
Ryouma Kautsuo wrote:
Last Wolf wrote:
There is also Cruicifier -> Dragoon -> Arbitrator -> Pilgrim.

Also, try the curse. It can choose more targets than the Pilgrim because It doesn't have to sit on top of your target to neut it. And it can shield tank and fit damage mods in the lows.

Only downside is it can't fit a cov-ops cloak.


I hadn't considered the Dragoon. That would probably make a much better transition into the Arbitrator than the Sentinel would. Thanks!

I will definitely look into the Curse more. I'll probably end up using both of them at different times depending on what I want to accomplish.


If your have the ISK then Cloak IV plus cross training some Gallente Racial Frigate or Cruiser gets you into covops in an Astero or Stratios,

Note that the Stratios can field TWO geckos.
xPredat0rz
Project.Nova
The Initiative.
#5 - 2014-05-07 06:26:35 UTC
Pick a different training goal. Pilgrims are extremely weak even with recon 5.


Curses are nice but lack the cloak. Stratios can be expensive but is better then the pilgrim hands down.


With a pilgrim your basica goal is to hunt things like active tanked battleships that also use cap with their guns.(Apocs, Megas)

Which leaves you with a very thin target profile. Esp with how close you need to get.
Tung Yoggi
University of Caille
#6 - 2014-05-07 14:24:40 UTC
Crucifier then arbitrator is solid.

By practicing a bit you'll see what you find *fun*, and if it's the cloaky hunting part of the game then pilgrim will be a decent choice.

However, be aware that, as it has been said here, the pilgrim is not really powerful at the moment, as well as not really versatile in terms of fitting and role, so you better be confident that you like what this ship does.

If you realize you want to fly something else, train guns and you'll have access to some cool stuff.
Zen Dad
Solitary Sad Bastard In Space
#7 - 2014-05-13 19:15:32 UTC
Hi, before you train covops and recon to V you need to define what you mean by ' fun to fly'
The Pilgrim is the U-boat of Eve and it needs a certain personality type to enjoy it.

You will never ever accept a duel,or 'meet anyone at the sun' for some PVP. You will spend your time patiently stalking in belts or sites, preferably ones that you have already bookmarked. Your attack speed will be 172m/s with a big plate on and you will de-cloak yourself on space junk and roids and lose your target.
It is a solo boat.

If the target has friends close by your engagement range and low DPS means you will probably die.
BUT if you like U-boat stuff and enjoy scaring the **** out of people it is a unique and fascinating craft.
When you get bored you can strap yourself onto a Curse and have a totally different balls to the wall rocket ride using the same hull.

To sum up - if you are patient enough to train the essentials to V then you will have the patience needed to use it successfully.

Good luck and don't forget to hum the theme tune from JAWS when you close in on your first victim.
Zen Dad
Solitary Sad Bastard In Space
#8 - 2014-05-13 19:18:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Zen Dad
Hi, before you train covops and recon to V you need to define what you mean by ' fun to fly'
The Pilgrim is the U-boat of Eve and it needs a certain personality type to enjoy it.

You will never ever accept a duel,or 'meet anyone at the sun' for some PVP. You will spend your time patiently stalking in belts or sites, preferably ones that you have already bookmarked. Your attack speed will be 172m/s with a big plate on and you will de-cloak yourself on space junk and roids and lose your target.
It is a solo boat.

If the target has friends close by your engagement range and low DPS means you will probably die.
BUT if you like U-boat stuff and enjoy scaring the **** out of people it is a unique and fascinating craft.
When you get bored you can strap yourself onto a Curse and have a totally different balls to the wall rocket ride using the same hull.

To sum up - if you are patient enough to train the essentials to V then you will have the patience needed to use it successfully.

Good luck and don't forget to hum the theme tune from JAWS when you close in on your first victim.

I should add that Retribution knackered the Pilgrims ability to tackle tanky ships as nearby AI rats hate the Pilgrims neuts and TDs
Odyssey then removed the majority of interesting exploration craft you could hit.
So train it up patiently and wait patiently for the happy hunting days to return.
God's Apples
Wilderness
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
#9 - 2014-05-14 00:47:30 UTC
Pilgrim is pretty awful. You should reconsider your choice immediately.

"Hydra Reloaded are just jealous / butthurt on me / us because we can get tons of PVP action in empire while they aren't good enough to get that." - NightmareX
Job Valador
Professional Amateurs
#10 - 2014-05-14 15:48:04 UTC
God's Apples wrote:
Pilgrim is pretty awful. You should reconsider your choice immediately.


Pilgrim is great but only in the area that Zen talked about. It just happens to be the furthest away from an "I WIN" ship compared to all ships in the game.

"The stone exhibited a profound lack of movement."
Khan'Wulf
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2014-06-02 20:36:46 UTC
You can do an awful lot in an arbitrator before you end up at the Curse/Pilgrim. It is extremely versatile, and dangerous.

Nothing wrong with skilling for a pilgrim, but enjoy the ride.

Think outside the box as much as possible. Arbie can do some interesting things with rigs and tracking disruption, especially in a small gang, and it is underestimated, since it's a T1 cruiser.

--Khan'wulf
Last Wolf
Umbra Wing
#12 - 2014-06-02 20:46:00 UTC
I used to fly a brick/bait arby in Red VS Blue. This was before teiracide so it is probably even better now, but I could get ~40k EHP and a full rack of small nuets or light missile launchers.

It murdered small frig swarms that thought they could get in close for a quick kill... by the time they realized you weren't dying quickly it was too late.

Did the same thing with a Rupture and small AC's and dual 1600mm plates. ~50k ehp or so (again before tieracide... I really need to PvP again..)

These setups were great in low-sec were you could bait a BC to attack you first because all they saw was a lowly tech 1 cruiser. Then with an AB and orbit at 500m + gate guns shooting them I could slowly kill them. Granted the gate guns did most of the dps.

That awkward moment at the Gentlemen's Club when you see your sister on the stage....and you're not sure where to put the money....
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#13 - 2014-06-03 13:00:27 UTC
Last Wolf wrote:
I used to fly a brick/bait arby in Red VS Blue. This was before teiracide so it is probably even better now, but I could get ~40k EHP and a full rack of small nuets or light missile launchers.

It murdered small frig swarms that thought they could get in close for a quick kill... by the time they realized you weren't dying quickly it was too late.

Did the same thing with a Rupture and small AC's and dual 1600mm plates. ~50k ehp or so (again before tieracide... I really need to PvP again..)

These setups were great in low-sec were you could bait a BC to attack you first because all they saw was a lowly tech 1 cruiser. Then with an AB and orbit at 500m + gate guns shooting them I could slowly kill them. Granted the gate guns did most of the dps.


I loved the AC tornado in RvB. It tore through bait-bricks and sitting at 40km gave you plenty of time to either 1-shot frigs or warp off.
DieZir
Interstellar Outlaws INC
#14 - 2014-06-03 20:11:19 UTC
My 5 cents....

I agree with everything Zen said, and the fact that the Grim is a great ship. As he stated - you have to be very patient when using this ship. Additionally, it's one of the harder ships to fly and requires a good level of skills to be effective, many of which can't be just trained - things like effectively using dscan , having a pretty specific overview or optional overviews, understanding the slight targeting delay that accompanies you decloak, having local separated from your other chats and visible, etc....

With the right toolbox of in and out of games skills - you will be an effective hunter. You'll make a mess of it at first - I did, but eventually it'll all come full circle and it'll all pay off.

It is a bit like fishing tho. Sometimes you'll spend a lot of time with nothing to show for your efforts, and then u'll find the solo low sec miner in a barge, angle in close and spring the trap (after checking neighboring systems for possible buds). Nothing beats seeing a hunt come together. Patience and thinking ahead are the keys tho - and most don't like the work it takes to set up a sneak gank.