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CSM 9 Results

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Author
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#261 - 2014-05-06 07:50:04 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
Jaxon Grylls wrote:
Let's see what this CSM does, before coming out with visions of doom.


After all, visions of doom require the smoking of some seriously heavy stuff, and I have absolutely NO urge to share a bag with the goons.


That's ok, we have more than enough of our own stuff
Dave stark
#262 - 2014-05-06 07:54:33 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
No we dont think getting rid of highsec is good for the game. We want to get rid of high sec offering the same or better rewards as the higher risk areas of space.


confirming high sec having good rewards is why i live there.

why would i go anywhere else when all i'd get for my troubles is more hassle for no extra reward?
Pubbie Spy
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#263 - 2014-05-06 09:22:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Pubbie Spy
Tauranon wrote:
As it stands, it is not a balanced game, nor is it a game that lays out a proper progression path for users, and its probably a reason why 6 month old mission runners unsub - other steps are seen as unrewarding and they are bored with missions.


Eve is not about ~progression~, since making numbers go up faster with a more expensive ship is just more of the same.

There's a reason the most memorable moments in Eve are not at all related to player SP or how many purple modules your mission running autism chariot has, but about drama and large scale changes in the political landscape of nullsec and giant fights where thousands of people were sufficiently motivated to log in and play internet spaceships together.

Go play WoW or Asteroids (still a better rock shooting game than mining in Eve) if you want PvE.

Jaxon Grylls wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
If the goons stop spamming the forums, I for one, promise to stop making fun of them.

No, not good enough Josef.

Don't get caught up in the silly games being played here.

This thread is degenerating into a play-ground squabble.

This does no-one any good, only serves to entrench the two camps and will lead inevitably to a lock.

As I advised the Goon representatives, give it a rest.

Post constructively or don't post at all.

Mike Azariah is right. Let's see what this CSM does, before coming out with visions of doom.



Your style

of paragraphs for each sentence

is very readable

and makes your post

much more constructive.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#264 - 2014-05-06 09:43:44 UTC
Pubbie Spy wrote:
Tauranon wrote:
As it stands, it is not a balanced game, nor is it a game that lays out a proper progression path for users, and its probably a reason why 6 month old mission runners unsub - other steps are seen as unrewarding and they are bored with missions.


Eve is not about ~progression~, since making numbers go up faster with a more expensive ship is just more of the same.

There's a reason the most memorable moments in Eve are not at all related to player SP or how many purple modules your mission running autism chariot has, but about drama and large scale changes in the political landscape of nullsec and giant fights where thousands of people were sufficiently motivated to log in and play internet spaceships together.

Go play WoW or Asteroids (still a better rock shooting game than mining in Eve) if you want PvE.



Almost all of my PVP is in relation to PVE, and that's the way I like it. In order for that to exist, the PVE has to have apparent intrinsic value, and we have to be set to take it off each other. Mission running doesn't produce players that do that.

The progression step, is to progress from missioning in virtual isolation with concord covering your back, to losing the concord and taking of things that other people want to take. That is a progression step for the player and not the character.

oh and I don't own any purple modules. In 7 years I haven't bought one. I've also sold far more blue than I've ever fitted. If I fit a purple, it will because I went and farmed the relevant belts until it dropped, which is also a hallmark of my fitted blue gear.

Josef Djugashvilis
#265 - 2014-05-06 10:37:10 UTC
Pubbie Spy wrote:
Tauranon wrote:
As it stands, it is not a balanced game, nor is it a game that lays out a proper progression path for users, and its probably a reason why 6 month old mission runners unsub - other steps are seen as unrewarding and they are bored with missions.


Eve is not about ~progression~, since making numbers go up faster with a more expensive ship is just more of the same.

There's a reason the most memorable moments in Eve are not at all related to player SP or how many purple modules your mission running autism chariot has, but about drama and large scale changes in the political landscape of nullsec and giant fights where thousands of people were sufficiently motivated to log in and play internet spaceships together.

Go play WoW or Asteroids (still a better rock shooting game than mining in Eve) if you want PvE.

Jaxon Grylls wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
If the goons stop spamming the forums, I for one, promise to stop making fun of them.

No, not good enough Josef.

Don't get caught up in the silly games being played here.

This thread is degenerating into a play-ground squabble.

This does no-one any good, only serves to entrench the two camps and will lead inevitably to a lock.

As I advised the Goon representatives, give it a rest.

Post constructively or don't post at all.

Mike Azariah is right. Let's see what this CSM does, before coming out with visions of doom.



Your style

of paragraphs for each sentence

is very readable

and makes your post

much more constructive.


Thank you good sir Smile

Glad

to

help

This is not a signature.

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#266 - 2014-05-06 11:31:25 UTC
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:

You'll have to point me to where you're getting your sub numbers.



That'd be a Dev's twitter feed, where they were laughing about how they had to remap a node to cover one of the rookie systems a few days after BR-5.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#267 - 2014-05-06 12:43:58 UTC
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
La Nariz wrote:

On top of the publicly viewable research I've done on the topic, highsec strangles and stagnates the game.


When I looked the only thing I found was you had done some numbers on ratting profits. Which look legit. Your other assertions don't seem to have any proof. You call the High Sec Rapture (I love that title) a myth, but supposedly so are evolution, gravity, and climate change.

If you want to say 'Eve is fine' I can point to numbers that show otherwise. If you want to argue that changing high sec in serious, fundamental ways won't adversely effect CCPs income, consider the loss of revenue from high sec miners unsubbing. Even if they didn't close all their accounts, we're still looking at a sizable drop.


CCP's own metrics indicate that people who stick to highsec, are many times more likely to unsub from the game. People who leave highsec are more likely to stay for much longer. Source: CSM minutes.

Highsec makes people leave the game. You can argue that you would lose a proportion of the utterly entrenched if massive changes came in that stopped making perma-highsec life viable, but it's rather like cutting off a rotting toe to save the foot.

The trick isn't to move all development of eve around the carebear-entrenched mindset, but to create a game where people don't get stuck in that rut to begin with. As mentioned, people don't start playing eve because they heard you can min/max saving the damsel 400 times a month, that's a play-style they fall into because other options are too hard to break into.

The reason subs spike after things like BR is because 'HOLY CRAPOLA LOOK AT THOSE BATTLES I WANT TO DO THAT!!" - but then they start the game and everyone they ask tells them to never leave highsec. Then, they leave after a small amount of time.
On the contrary, when things like BR happens, our newbie drive goes totally mental, and we retain a very high proportion of these new players, because they aren't bored shitless in highsec, being given advice by carebears.

I've lost count of the number of times I've seen a newbie speak up and ask if they should go exploring lowsec/0.0, only to have a dozen ultra-bears shout them down and tell them its a bad idea, instant death awaits, etc.

Those people should be purged from the game for the benefit of everyone else.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Jaxon Grylls
Institute of Archaeology
#268 - 2014-05-06 12:55:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Jaxon Grylls
Pubbie Spy wrote:

Your style

of paragraphs for each sentence

is very readable

and makes your post

much more constructive.

Sorry if it offends you.

My eyes are not what they were and I find that single spacing is often hard to read.

So when composing a post I do it in such a manner that is easy for me to proof-read and spell check.
Josef Djugashvilis
#269 - 2014-05-06 13:06:50 UTC
Jaxon Grylls wrote:
Pubbie Spy wrote:

Your style

of paragraphs for each sentence

is very readable

and makes your post

much more constructive.

Sorry if it offends you.

My eyes are not what they were and I find that single spacing is often hard to read.

So when composing a post I do it in such a manner that is easy for me to proof-read and spell check.


I was not offended in the least.

This is not a signature.

Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#270 - 2014-05-06 13:09:03 UTC
And on another note, another day goes by, no CSM breakdown on the vote.
I thought last year it was a couple days after the results were released, but then I checked the 2013 dev blogs.
It was actually almost right after.

Let's see what happens on Wednesday, and if we get a vote breakdown.
At least one of the bloggers has already implied that the delay means bad news on the subscription size.

And of course, if the subs are down, clearly the best way to regain them is to hammer high sec even more.

Waiting for the leaked directive by the cartels ordering all their serfs to subscribe another alt.
Frying Doom
#271 - 2014-05-06 13:18:07 UTC
I must admit, I am starting to wonder if the transparent elections that have always been a there are a thing of the past.

Given the STV voting system they really need to remain transparent.

But then we have not actually even gotten confirmation as to the successful candidates on these forums by CCP.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#272 - 2014-05-06 13:21:13 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
But then we have not actually even gotten confirmation as to the successful candidates on these forums by CCP.


So you say big screen announcement with list of CSM 9 members shown by Hilmar at Fanfest is not enough of confirmation for you?

Invalid signature format

Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#273 - 2014-05-06 13:34:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Dinsdale Pirannha
Frying Doom wrote:
I must admit, I am starting to wonder if the transparent elections that have always been a there are a thing of the past.

Given the STV voting system they really need to remain transparent.

But then we have not actually even gotten confirmation as to the successful candidates on these forums by CCP.


2012: CSM winners released in the keynote, dev blog comes same day.
2013 CSM winners released in the keynote, dev blog comes out hours later.
2014 CSM winners released in the keynote, dev blog comes out......
Rhes
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#274 - 2014-05-06 14:09:04 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
And on another note, another day goes by, no CSM breakdown on the vote.
I thought last year it was a couple days after the results were released, but then I checked the 2013 dev blogs.
It was actually almost right after.

Let's see what happens on Wednesday, and if we get a vote breakdown.
At least one of the bloggers has already implied that the delay means bad news on the subscription size.

And of course, if the subs are down, clearly the best way to regain them is to hammer high sec even more.

Waiting for the leaked directive by the cartels ordering all their serfs to subscribe another alt.

Why do you think vote tally has anything to do with subscription numbers?

EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise

Higgs Foton
Mission And Mining Inc
#275 - 2014-05-06 14:10:13 UTC
Khanh'rhh wrote:
[quote=Cygnet Lythanea][quote=La Nariz]
Highsec makes people leave the game. You can argue that you would lose a proportion of the utterly entrenched if massive changes came in that stopped making perma-highsec life viable, but it's rather like cutting off a rotting toe to save the foot.

The trick isn't to move all development of eve around the carebear-entrenched mindset, but to create a game where people don't get stuck in that rut to begin with. As mentioned, people don't start playing eve because they heard you can min/max saving the damsel 400 times a month, that's a play-style they fall into because other options are too hard to break into.

The reason subs spike after things like BR is because 'HOLY CRAPOLA LOOK AT THOSE BATTLES I WANT TO DO THAT!!" - but then they start the game and everyone they ask tells them to never leave highsec. Then, they leave after a small amount of time.
On the contrary, when things like BR happens, our newbie drive goes totally mental, and we retain a very high proportion of these new players, because they aren't bored shitless in highsec, being given advice by carebears.

I've lost count of the number of times I've seen a newbie speak up and ask if they should go exploring lowsec/0.0, only to have a dozen ultra-bears shout them down and tell them its a bad idea, instant death awaits, etc.

Those people should be purged from the game for the benefit of everyone else.


Many truth's are spoken here. When i was a young capsuleer i went into low sec the second day i played the game, and withing three months i was in null sec. I also heard the carebears in high sec proclaiming "Don't go there! Its dangerous!", but that never stopped me. Sure, i was blown up a couple of times, but i also made HUGE profits. When i now return to high sec to get new skills i always see it as an unending sea of mediocrity and boredom. If advancing in this game is what you want, you need to get to null sec. This is where the big boys who make the headlines play, and this is where you can make a decent profit, be it mining, exploration, ratting or (in the future) industry.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#276 - 2014-05-06 14:44:21 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
I must admit, I am starting to wonder if the transparent elections that have always been a there are a thing of the past.

Given the STV voting system they really need to remain transparent.

But then we have not actually even gotten confirmation as to the successful candidates on these forums by CCP.


Nobody actually voted. CCP just picked the 14 people they wanted.

Please go about your business in an orderly fashion. You are being watched at all times for your own safety. Subversive activity will not be tolerated.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Aralyn Cormallen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#277 - 2014-05-06 14:46:39 UTC
Higgs Foton wrote:


Many truth's are spoken here. When i was a young capsuleer i went into low sec the second day i played the game, and withing three months i was in null sec. I also heard the carebears in high sec proclaiming "Don't go there! Its dangerous!", but that never stopped me. Sure, i was blown up a couple of times, but i also made HUGE profits. When i now return to high sec to get new skills i always see it as an unending sea of mediocrity and boredom. If advancing in this game is what you want, you need to get to null sec. This is where the big boys who make the headlines play, and this is where you can make a decent profit, be it mining, exploration, ratting or (in the future) industry.


I believe its a problem of the mechanics of the New Player Experience.

Straight out the gate you are presented with a neat stack of missions, and dropped in to a chat channel with the most entrenched players in the game (because players who have at least dipped their toe outside the starter corp drop back in to a different corp, so it is only those who have never left who are there to "advise" new players). So it is not surprising that the starter player drifts in to the highsec missioning lifestyle, either unaware of the alternatives, or aggressively advised not to take them.

I'm not sure there is any sane way to introduce a player to the politics and pvp side of the game right off the bat. I mean, the mission that suggests signing up to fleet war tries that, but paradoxically, it is more often the less aware players who are more likely to accept that offer unknowingly, and accidentally find themselves in fleet war, dead due to ignorance of mechanics, and scared further away from trying to pvp in a structured manner.

The problem is that the only alternatives presented to the player are mining, missioning, and exploring, and of the three, missioning is far more familiar territory to the former themepark dweller coming here from elsewhere. Industry is also presented, but the agonising problem of finding a free line remotely near a newbie system no doubt puts them off that at the outset - hopefully the Industry update will resolve this (there is an idea, tag tutorial Blueprints to exclude them from the price escalation of crowded systems?). Follow that with the blatant falsehoods and misconceptions parrotted in to the newbies ear, and no wonder they never make it in to the other part of the game. Much to my own disgust, I believed the "have to be this high to ride" fallacies, and didn't step foot out of Highsec until I had a fat enough wallet to fit out a half dozen battlecruisers, 15 million sp (so those BC's were all T2 fit), and a couple of months "training" time in RvB. And once I got out there, I realised exactly how much time I had wasted.
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#278 - 2014-05-06 14:47:18 UTC
Rhes wrote:

Why do you think vote tally has anything to do with subscription numbers?


Usually has a number of votes cast and what percentage that was of those eligible to vote. Since only subs can vote, the sub numbers and the eligible votes are at least close to the same.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#279 - 2014-05-06 14:52:53 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
And on another note, another day goes by, no CSM breakdown on the vote.
I thought last year it was a couple days after the results were released, but then I checked the 2013 dev blogs.
It was actually almost right after.

Let's see what happens on Wednesday, and if we get a vote breakdown.
At least one of the bloggers has already implied that the delay means bad news on the subscription size.

And of course, if the subs are down, clearly the best way to regain them is to hammer high sec even more.

Waiting for the leaked directive by the cartels ordering all their serfs to subscribe another alt.


The vote totals are probably not out yet because CCP Dolan is letting his liver recover after fanfest. If I remember right the CSM minutes took an unusually long time to come out this year as well.

You are right though nerfing highsec is the best way to combat falling subs.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133

Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#280 - 2014-05-06 14:55:25 UTC
Rhes wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
And on another note, another day goes by, no CSM breakdown on the vote.
I thought last year it was a couple days after the results were released, but then I checked the 2013 dev blogs.
It was actually almost right after.

Let's see what happens on Wednesday, and if we get a vote breakdown.
At least one of the bloggers has already implied that the delay means bad news on the subscription size.

And of course, if the subs are down, clearly the best way to regain them is to hammer high sec even more.

Waiting for the leaked directive by the cartels ordering all their serfs to subscribe another alt.

Why do you think vote tally has anything to do with subscription numbers?


Because of this thing called math.
See, CCP gives total votes cast, and what that was a percentage of the sub base.
With a little bit of algebra (yeah, I know, big word, look it up), one can figure out the size of the entire sub base, and compare year over year.

But clearly, you are not that obtuse, and simply trolling.