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Summer refining
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Nalelmir Ahashion
Industrial Management and Engineering
Mouth Trumpet Cavalry
#1 - 2014-05-05 21:37:36 UTC
Just to get something straight here...

I read that in order to keep my current "100% refine" amounts after the patch I'll need refining V + Refinery Eff V + Ore skill V + 4% implant + 50% base yield station with 6.7 standing.

now...
I read the 100 page thread of the dev blog and some people there says that on POS people can refine without their skill taking into account so while someone with skills trained on npc station refine for 72% or something on POS in highsec someone WITHOUT ANY skills trained will refine at 75% after the expansion?

is that true?
cause in order to perfect the relevant refining skills for me I'm looking at over 70 days training (mostly train 4 > 5) and this issue is very discouraging....
Aerie Evingod
Midwest Miners LLC
#2 - 2014-05-05 21:44:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Aerie Evingod
I would need to go back to look, but I think with the 4% implant you actually get a slight bit more than currently.

As to your question about POS versus station refining, mostly yes. Still have to pay for POS fuel of that is any consolation. From my understanding it is a limit of POS code and should be eliminated as they redo the POS code and mechanics.

How many of the ore specific skills are you looking at training to 5?
Nalelmir Ahashion
Industrial Management and Engineering
Mouth Trumpet Cavalry
#3 - 2014-05-05 21:47:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Nalelmir Ahashion
I need to do refining eff from 4 to 5 (about 12 days no biggie...)
then I need extra of 8 ore specific skills to cover all ore types I got access to.
But I can get access to pos refining from friends and such so thing is training this skills to maintain my refining capabilities or use friend's pos and train exhumers+drone interfacing + cap recharge skills from 4 to 5.

EDIT:
Actually considering the new compression array and the fact I'll be able to access it via friend's pos I might be better just hoard ores now, compress them after the expansion and sell compressed ore and meanwhile max some pimped skills to V instead of grinding this refining skills.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#4 - 2014-05-05 23:22:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Steve Ronuken
No. the POS module will not allow for max level refining, without skills. (Well, it might for one patch. They're trying to get it in for Kronos, but if they miss, they'll get it on the next one)


The POS module will allow for slightly better than station refine levels. (there's also the intensive one, which is 0.3 and down, which is even better)


https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4511718#post4511718

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Nalelmir Ahashion
Industrial Management and Engineering
Mouth Trumpet Cavalry
#5 - 2014-05-05 23:24:41 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
No. the POS module will not allow for max level refining, without skills. (Well, it might for one patch. They're trying to get it in for Kronos, but if they miss, they'll get it on the next one)


That is good to know I was afraid of that.

At any rate what is your prediction about compressed ore via POS hauled into highsec trade hub for sale vs minerals?
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#6 - 2014-05-05 23:29:33 UTC
Nalelmir Ahashion wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
No. the POS module will not allow for max level refining, without skills. (Well, it might for one patch. They're trying to get it in for Kronos, but if they miss, they'll get it on the next one)


That is good to know I was afraid of that.

At any rate what is your prediction about compressed ore via POS hauled into highsec trade hub for sale vs minerals?



Initially I suspect it's going to be low. People are set in their ways.

However, then trit prices start falling ('I need ore, trit is worthless to me, so I don't buy it, demand then falls, so does the price') people may take note and start selling their ore instead.

I can easily see Ore being worth more than the constituent minerals, at least for a while.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Nalelmir Ahashion
Industrial Management and Engineering
Mouth Trumpet Cavalry
#7 - 2014-05-05 23:35:03 UTC
well faster then 100 days into maxing refining skills might be worth to try it.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#8 - 2014-05-05 23:36:07 UTC
Nalelmir Ahashion wrote:
well faster then 100 days into maxing refining skills might be worth to try it.



It'll be easier to ship around, at least Smile

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Nalelmir Ahashion
Industrial Management and Engineering
Mouth Trumpet Cavalry
#9 - 2014-05-05 23:41:31 UTC
ya... noticed that when I mined like 1million\m3 of ores in 2.5 days Lol
Strot Harn
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#10 - 2014-05-06 03:10:18 UTC
Nalelmir Ahashion wrote:


is that true?
cause in order to perfect the relevant refining skills for me I'm looking at over 70 days training (mostly train 4 > 5) and this issue is very discouraging....


Meh.

That's just over two months and do you really need Spodumain Processing V? Just focus on what you mine most and go from there. Really it's going to work out to 2-4 weeks of training tops.

Look on the bright side, it will finally separate the player that actually care about mining/refining/manufacturing from those who don't. Currently, you can get 100% efficiency with just level 2 skills in specific ore processing if you're doing it right. I'm glad to see that CCP looked at this and realized that there was not a series of interesting choices there.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#11 - 2014-05-06 04:52:46 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
No. the POS module will not allow for max level refining, without skills. (Well, it might for one patch. They're trying to get it in for Kronos, but if they miss, they'll get it on the next one)

For what it is worth:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Small update!

After sacrificing many Devs to the dark development gods, we are now able to confirm we will have reprocessing skills affect Starbase Reprocessing Arrays - if not for the Summer release, shortly after.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#12 - 2014-05-06 05:08:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Reprocessing Yield = Reprocessing Facilities * (1 + Refining Skill * 3%) * (1 + Refining Efficiency Skill * 2%) * (1 + Ore or Ice Processing Skill * 2%)


Level 4 Material Skill At 50% Facilities = 68.31% [or -4.048%]
Level 4 Material Skill At 50% Facilities and 4% Refining Implant = 68.31% * (1 + 4%) = 71.0424% [-1.3156%]

Level 4 Material Skill 52% Reprocessing Array = 71.0424% [-1.3156%]
Level 4 Material Skill At 52% Reprocessing Array and 4% Refining Implant = 71.0424% * (1 + 4%) = 73.884096% [+1.526096%]

Max Skill At 50% Facilities = 69.575% [or -2.783%]
Max Skill At 50% Facilities and 4% Refining Implant = 69.575% * (1 + 4%) = 72.358% [this is the old "perfect refine"]

Max Skill At 52% Reprocessing Array = 72.358% [this is the old "perfect refine"]
Max Skill At 52% Reprocessing Array and 4% Refining Implant = 72.358% * (1 + 4%) = 75.25232% [+1.67232%]
Bob ran
Optimistic Wasteland Inc.
Fraternity.
#13 - 2014-05-06 11:04:48 UTC
I can see compressed ore from high sec being bit limited since for the small miner it wouldn't be worthwhile to own a pos and nor would it be worthwhile for some to buy up ore and compress in pos due to time it would take to haul the ore to the pos.


So the ore market will prob be filled by few major producers
Arronicus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#14 - 2014-05-06 11:32:52 UTC
Nalelmir Ahashion wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
No. the POS module will not allow for max level refining, without skills. (Well, it might for one patch. They're trying to get it in for Kronos, but if they miss, they'll get it on the next one)


That is good to know I was afraid of that.

At any rate what is your prediction about compressed ore via POS hauled into highsec trade hub for sale vs minerals?


compressed ore will be worth more than minerals very quickly I imagine, given that it will be the only way of compressing minerals to transport to low to build caps, and null to build supers, not to mention it will refine much better in 0.0
Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#15 - 2014-05-06 12:08:20 UTC
So just to confirm, as one of my alts is currently busy training up all ore skills from 4 to 5 in order to be "the refiner", it's still useful for me to do this? He has the implant as well so all else being equal.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#16 - 2014-05-06 13:08:35 UTC
it is, if you think it is.

Personally, I've had 5/5/5 skills since like '09, since outposts are generally absolute ****...

Will have to buy a new 4% implant though ... thanks for reminding me to do that before the prices get out of hand.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Otin Bison
Bison Industrial Inc
Cat Scratch Fevers
#17 - 2014-05-06 13:15:26 UTC
With all the talk and consternation about no longer getting a "perfect" refine in HiSec, didn't I also read in the Dev Blog that the amount of minerals received per refine was also increasing to help negate the negative effects of the less than perfect refine?

Assuming my memory isn't too foggy, without my perfect refine, I should still be receive about the same amount of minerals.
Nalelmir Ahashion
Industrial Management and Engineering
Mouth Trumpet Cavalry
#18 - 2014-05-06 13:26:27 UTC
yes they will increase by roughly 38% so it should be same amount of minerals and allow players in lower security levels to get larger amounts.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#19 - 2014-05-06 13:41:47 UTC
Otin Bison wrote:
With all the talk and consternation about no longer getting a "perfect" refine in HiSec, didn't I also read in the Dev Blog that the amount of minerals received per refine was also increasing to help negate the negative effects of the less than perfect refine?

Assuming my memory isn't too foggy, without my perfect refine, I should still be receive about the same amount of minerals.



You will be "close" if and only if you have max skills (or L4 skills and an implant).

Put simply, post-patch "72.3%" is exactly the same as "100%" today.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Nalelmir Ahashion
Industrial Management and Engineering
Mouth Trumpet Cavalry
#20 - 2014-05-06 13:46:01 UTC
Velicitia wrote:


You will be "close" if and only if you have max skills (or L4 skills and an implant).

Put simply, post-patch "72.3%" is exactly the same as "100%" today.



Big if here is if the 72.3% minerals we will get after the change will be worth same as 100% today isk wise...
This entire indy change is massive but biggest problem it requires long time for skills training, at minimum to maintain same mineral amount I'll personally need at minimum 30+ days of unplanned training... :X If in the end it will not be worth it I'll shed a tear, anyone got a bucket?
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