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CSM 9 Results

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March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#221 - 2014-05-05 19:55:18 UTC
Andski wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
4. And then, the next body blow to high sec, Incursion and mission income hammered in some way. I always believed it would just be some across the board nerf to bounties, but I see now that it will be more insidious. More like the removal of all loot from missions, and the buffing of the Incursion rats, making the sites take longer to finish.


so the nullsec ~cartels~ are asking that PvE is made more challenging

... in empire

not in 0.0 sec itself

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#222 - 2014-05-05 20:41:20 UTC
Andski wrote:


so the nullsec ~cartels~ are asking that PvE is made more challenging


For everyone BUT them.

[Edit: damn, ninja'd.]

Rhes wrote:

This is inaccurate.


Fewer subs is not a net loss for CCP? So, you opening extra alts to cover it?

While I think Dinsdale's numbers are off by an order of magnitude, he's not entirely wrong.

The fewer playstyles Eve caters to, the fewer long term players it will have. This is MMO Design 101.
Rhes
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#223 - 2014-05-05 20:55:49 UTC
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
Fewer subs is not a net loss for CCP? So, you opening extra alts to cover it?

While I think Dinsdale's numbers are off by an order of magnitude, he's not entirely wrong.

The fewer playstyles Eve caters to, the fewer long term players it will have. This is MMO Design 101.

You are wrong because you assume fewer people in highsec means fewer people in the game as a whole. When was the last time a major news organization wrote a story about highsec pubbies running missions or mining?

EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#224 - 2014-05-05 21:14:06 UTC
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
Andski wrote:


so the nullsec ~cartels~ are asking that PvE is made more challenging


For everyone BUT them.

[Edit: damn, ninja'd.]

Rhes wrote:

This is inaccurate.


Fewer subs is not a net loss for CCP? So, you opening extra alts to cover it?

While I think Dinsdale's numbers are off by an order of magnitude, he's not entirely wrong.

The fewer playstyles Eve caters to, the fewer long term players it will have. This is MMO Design 101.


Its inaccurate because it relies on the myth of the "highsec pubbie rapture" as proof.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#225 - 2014-05-05 21:18:32 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:

What's happened is absolutely disgusting. It's an insult to the entire community and is clearly the work a person who believes that behavior in a virtual world is a valid reason to make a real life personal attack on someone, and deface public property.


Figure I should leave this here for the highsec crowd.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Enaris Kerle
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#226 - 2014-05-05 21:20:44 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
Andski wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
4. And then, the next body blow to high sec, Incursion and mission income hammered in some way. I always believed it would just be some across the board nerf to bounties, but I see now that it will be more insidious. More like the removal of all loot from missions, and the buffing of the Incursion rats, making the sites take longer to finish.


so the nullsec ~cartels~ are asking that PvE is made more challenging

... in empire

not in 0.0 sec itself

there are missions and incursions in 0.0 too you know

Gallente born and raised, and tutored as a pleasure slave and courtesan to the exotic tastes of the Amarri court. Jade's career veered violently off course when a diplomatic envoy's transport was blown to pieces in mysterious circumstances and she was rescued from the escape pods by the enigmatic genetic mastermind Athule Snanm.
Dalloway Jones
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#227 - 2014-05-05 21:45:30 UTC
For the "OMG High Sec is being nerfed into the ground" crowd I kind of wonder what is so bad about nerfs to high sec income?

And count me as someone who has lived almost all of my game life in high sec but hope to go hang out in null soon just for a change.

I mean it isn't like we lose a ton of ships. What do we need all the money for? OK I guess PLEX prices are crazy high but are that many high sec carebears only able to play the game via PLEX?
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#228 - 2014-05-05 21:57:34 UTC
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
The fewer playstyles Eve caters to, the fewer long term players it will have. This is MMO Design 101.

Can you still get a refund on that course? Because that's some serious hogwash right there. Eve fills a narrower niche than most, but they all have one. The history of MMOs that have tried to change their core game to appeal to a larger audience is checkered with failure, why do you people still keep insisting Eve needs to do this, despite it being the only MMO with a continuously growing playerbase?

You're all trying to cook up a problem that doesn't exist, so that your proposed solutions have something to fix.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#229 - 2014-05-05 22:00:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Khanh'rhh
Dalloway Jones wrote:
I mean it isn't like we lose a ton of ships. What do we need all the money for? OK I guess PLEX prices are crazy high but are that many high sec carebears only able to play the game via PLEX?

They need the money to fly better ships, to make more money, to fly better ships!
A lot still think they're doing this to "get ready" to PVP "one day" but most have dropped this and have deluded themselves into thinking they started playing Eve to shoot the same red crosses every day, and will defend this vigourously with "don't tell me how to play" defences.

I'm not sure how you look at any of the Eve promo material, and conclude "there's a game which is all about doing mindless PVE on my own and not interacting with anyone! Let's subscribe and yell at people for playing it the way I see in the trailers", but it seems to happen a lot.

(The reality is they joined Eve because HOLY **** SPACE BATTLES LOOK AMAZING but then got caught in the above loop and never concluded they are ready. CCP have said themselves people not leaving highsec is a strong indicator that they will quit the game from boredom.)

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#230 - 2014-05-05 22:05:22 UTC
FYI if you are wondering why a CSM is important, it's to cut through the noise as evident in this thread, and help deliver a signal to CCP.

In the past 3 years they have been doing a very good job of this.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#231 - 2014-05-05 22:46:04 UTC
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

We care about this game to shoot down all of the terrible ideas some people have.


Even if it means showing up at thier house and beating them with a ball bat. j/k


However, it's the ideas that are only terrible to some play styles and good for others that are the subject of concern. Even the gradual approach to doing away with highsec is a net loss for CCP, but many goons seem to support it anyway.


We don't support such a thing. For one, it would remove suicide ganking from the game.
Pubbie Spy
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#232 - 2014-05-05 23:05:38 UTC
Tippia wrote:
How do you square this with the very slow alteration of moon goo, with the nerfs to individual nullsec income, with the complete lack of sovereignty revamps, with the vey tame industry revamp in null, with the huge buffs to highsec, with the nerfs to power projection, and the severe lack of progress on the 5-year plan for null? If the CSM, dominated by these mythical cartels, were so extremely effective, how come nothing they have been asking for has happened?

Oh, and above all, if the cartels are as effective and powerful as you want them to be, how come you are still here? If what you say is true, you have no say in the matter… and yet, here you are, vomiting up all kinds of incoherent nonsense and no-one is stopping you. It doesn't seem to match your claims, now does it?


Don't let facts get in the way of a good goonspiracy!


Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:

On one side we have the libertarians, who adore Eve because it is their twisted vision of what their real world utopia is.
On the other side, you have the sane, moral, compassionate people, who are horrified by the distillation into a game of all that is wrong with humanity.


Yeah, personal freedom is just so evil, am I right?

Or should we only have the freedom to choose if we choose correctly?


Argh stop making me agree with Dinsdale, libertarianism is even dumber than internet spaceships (as goons found out when we tried to combine space libertarianism with internet spaceships; we ended up switching to space communism instead),

I'm sorry, I meant:

All hail Ayn Rand, long live Maggie Thatcher, bow before Saint Reagan the Unconquered Restorer of the Free World.
HERO is on the right path under the wise guidance of TEST, and anyway every newbee friendly ~internet spaceship guilde~ should definitely implement space libertarianism, especially if they want to topple goons, honest, guys!

Anyone want to join my new alliance Fountainhead [ATLAS]?
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#233 - 2014-05-05 23:26:03 UTC
Dalloway Jones wrote:
For the "OMG High Sec is being nerfed into the ground" crowd I kind of wonder what is so bad about nerfs to high sec income?

And count me as someone who has lived almost all of my game life in high sec but hope to go hang out in null soon just for a change.

I mean it isn't like we lose a ton of ships. What do we need all the money for? OK I guess PLEX prices are crazy high but are that many high sec carebears only able to play the game via PLEX?


I fly in all areas of eve, I don't mind nerfs to high sec even though I resupply there, I don't mind any changes to the game if they are done for game balance reasons, I do mind however if changes really are being driven by minority interest groups in null that are over represented at the csm.

Proof of this is thin on the ground however.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#234 - 2014-05-05 23:40:57 UTC
Khanh'rhh wrote:
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
The fewer playstyles Eve caters to, the fewer long term players it will have. This is MMO Design 101.

Can you still get a refund on that course? Because that's some serious hogwash right there. Eve fills a narrower niche than most, but they all have one. The history of MMOs that have tried to change their core game to appeal to a larger audience is checkered with failure, why do you people still keep insisting Eve needs to do this, despite it being the only MMO with a continuously growing playerbase?

You're all trying to cook up a problem that doesn't exist, so that your proposed solutions have something to fix.


One: the games that tried to appeal to more players might be checkered with failure, but the ones that reduced the number of viable play-styles are paved with it.

Two: Really? A continuously growing playerbase you say?

http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility

Funny, Chribba's New Born Player graph over at Eve Offline shows that new character creation on this server is, on average, on the down slope (there are however spikes when second accounts get discounts). Concurrency is at it's lowest point since Incarna, and before that we have to go all the way back to 08. Those are NOT signs of 'growth'.

While Chribba is a high seccer, I'm willing to be his numbers are dead on.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#235 - 2014-05-06 01:31:38 UTC  |  Edited by: La Nariz
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
Khanh'rhh wrote:
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
The fewer playstyles Eve caters to, the fewer long term players it will have. This is MMO Design 101.

Can you still get a refund on that course? Because that's some serious hogwash right there. Eve fills a narrower niche than most, but they all have one. The history of MMOs that have tried to change their core game to appeal to a larger audience is checkered with failure, why do you people still keep insisting Eve needs to do this, despite it being the only MMO with a continuously growing playerbase?

You're all trying to cook up a problem that doesn't exist, so that your proposed solutions have something to fix.


One: the games that tried to appeal to more players might be checkered with failure, but the ones that reduced the number of viable play-styles are paved with it.

Two: Really? A continuously growing playerbase you say?

http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility

Funny, Chribba's New Born Player graph over at Eve Offline shows that new character creation on this server is, on average, on the down slope (there are however spikes when second accounts get discounts). Concurrency is at it's lowest point since Incarna, and before that we have to go all the way back to 08. Those are NOT signs of 'growth'.

While Chribba is a high seccer, I'm willing to be his numbers are dead on.


Yet you've cited nothing that proves any of your points. You know what would draw in new players by the dozens? Nerfing highsec.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#236 - 2014-05-06 01:41:58 UTC
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:

One: the games that tried to appeal to more players might be checkered with failure, but the ones that reduced the number of viable play-styles are paved with it.



Lol, surely you have a few examples of that, right? You know, of all those games that failed because they did not go lowest common denominator?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Dalloway Jones
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#237 - 2014-05-06 01:44:31 UTC
That's just silly.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#238 - 2014-05-06 01:46:19 UTC
Pubbie Spy wrote:

Argh stop making me agree with Dinsdale, libertarianism is even dumber than internet spaceships (as goons found out when we tried to combine space libertarianism with internet spaceships; we ended up switching to space communism instead),

I'm sorry, I meant:

All hail Ayn Rand, long live Maggie Thatcher, bow before Saint Reagan the Unconquered Restorer of the Free World.
HERO is on the right path under the wise guidance of TEST, and anyway every newbee friendly ~internet spaceship guilde~ should definitely implement space libertarianism, especially if they want to topple goons, honest, guys!

Anyone want to join my new alliance Fountainhead [ATLAS]?



Nothing of the sort, to be honest.

I am merely arguing against his thought crime mentality. Were it up to him, all of the "sane, moral, compassionate people" would be able to have any playstyle with an off chance of causing badfeels banned from the game, and we'd all be merrily grinding away to make the green numbers bigger.

Well, I reject that carebear horseshit. He can throw around labels all he wants but he can go jump in a lake if he thinks he gets to legislate his twisted version of morality into a videogame.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
#239 - 2014-05-06 01:55:48 UTC
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
While Chribba is a high seccer, I'm willing to be his numbers are dead on.

they're not. they're just the characters eveboard has discovered

... and eve is still growing
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#240 - 2014-05-06 02:15:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Cygnet Lythanea
La Nariz wrote:

You know what would draw in new players by the dozens? Nerfing highsec.


*sigh*

Ok, I'll bite, how did you come to that conclusion?

I can point to high sec population and concurrency numbers to support my theory that doing away with high sec, either nerfing it into the ground or flat out eliminating it, will harm EvE's viability as a source of profit for CCP.

Assuming that only ten percent (though likely higher) of high sec players actually quit, that's still a serious financial hit.


Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

I'm the center of the universe and anyone that disagrees with me is obviously wrong because this game is about ME and what I WANT.


Fixed.