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WWM: Improving my PI efficiency / profitability - request for advice
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Commander Xenophobe
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1 - 2014-05-05 13:27:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Commander Xenophobe
I decided to set up a PI chain and went for WWM. All sites have launchpad no warehouse. My current null setup (5% tax) is:

Toon 1 skills CCU 4, IC 4 (soon to be 5)

Barren: 1 ECU 9 heads cycle output 13000, 10 basic (P0 micro to P1 bacteria)
Lava: 1 ECU 9 heads cycle output 16000, 9 basic (P0 non-cs to P1 chiral)
Temperate: 1 ECU 8 heads cycle output 16000, 11 basic (P0 carbon to P1 biofuels)
Storm: 1 ECU 8 heads cycle output 16000, 11 basic (P0 ionic to P1 electrolytes)
Gas: 1 ECU 9 heads cycle output 12000, 9 basic (P0 noble to P1 oxygen)

Toon 2 skills CCU 3, IC 4

Lava: 1 ECU 9 heads cycle output 15000, 9 basic (P0 heavy to P1 toxic)
Temperate: 1 ECU 7 heads cycle output 18000, 9 basic (P0 complex to P1 proteins)
Storm: 1 ECU 9 heads cycle output 11000, 8 basic (P0 aqueous to P1 water)
Gas: 1 ECU 7 heads cycle output 6700, 8 basic (P0 base to P1 reactive)
Factory: 18 advanced (15 are P1 to P2, 3 are P2 to P3), 2 hi-tec (P3 to P4 WWM)

Output cycles are 24hours and depletion is stabilising. I've matched cycle output to basic the best I could, and I can see I need to increase number of P2-P3 and P3-4 at expense of P1-P2. That being said I'm overproducing P1s so plan is when I get IC5 to create another factory planet on a similar setup to the other. My current shortage in the chain is curiously in TOXIC METALS.

Yet current output is a meagre 2 WWM per day. I'd be grateful for advice on modifying the above to improve efficiency. I'm not looking to decomission entire colonies or change production unless I'm making some fundamental error (no "your error is doing PI" jokes please) but rather to improve the output of the above line given what I have.

Thank you to those who post constructively!
Haffsol
#2 - 2014-05-05 17:47:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Haffsol
It looks like a good setup in general, all planets producing only P1 and 1 (or some) merely dedicate to assemply is the best of the normal setups. I would only tunr your cycles to 48 hrs instead of 24. The amount you're gonna lose is not that much but it makes the amount you're extracting quite balanced with the number of your BIF's.

In other words, to have a perfect 24hrs cycle you'd need more input from the extractors, but since you're already doing almost the best, I think you have to accept your setup cannot be pushed till perfection in any possible way and you'll only face the troubles of a fast setup like yours: fast depletion, tons of micromanaging, heads to be moved, sometimes even the BIF to be changed, extraction amounts leveling towards zero and so on...... all things you will have to face anyway, but in a much more affordable way using the "slowest of the fast setups" aka 48hrs ;)
Commander Xenophobe
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3 - 2014-05-05 17:56:01 UTC
Thank you I'm just wondering why I'm only producing 2 WWM per day when others are talking in the region of 15 mill per day profit per toon? I'll move the cycle to 48 hours.

If a cycle output is 12000 does that mean I need 4 basic factories to keep up (3000 every 30 mins production)?
Haffsol
#4 - 2014-05-05 18:07:14 UTC
ECU cycles are per hour, BIF eat stuff every 30 mins (with a fast setup like 48 hrs) so you only need 2 to manage 12k/hr

But.... I suppose you're working in nullsec...... how can you get only 12k from 9 heads (make it 10 asap btw)? I was used to numbers like 40k-ish and I mean at least, best was about 50-55k per hr, the really terrible ones were 35k when I was too burnt out to move or change them. But yep, with 48 hrs cycles I was using 10 heads and 7 BIF on my extraction planets + all the necessary assembly ones.
Aerie Evingod
Midwest Miners LLC
#5 - 2014-05-05 18:28:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Aerie Evingod
Haffsol wrote:
ECU cycles are per hour, BIF eat stuff every 30 mins (with a fast setup like 48 hrs) so you only need 2 to manage 12k/hr

But.... I suppose you're working in nullsec...... how can you get only 12k from 9 heads (make it 10 asap btw)? I was used to numbers like 40k-ish and I mean at least, best was about 50-55k per hr, the really terrible ones were 35k when I was too burnt out to move or change them. But yep, with 48 hrs cycles I was using 10 heads and 7 BIF on my extraction planets + all the necessary assembly ones.


Because at 24 hours, ECU cycle times are 15 minutes. Thus multiply his numbers by 4.
Aerie Evingod
Midwest Miners LLC
#6 - 2014-05-05 18:32:12 UTC
Commander Xenophobe wrote:
I decided to set up a PI chain and went for WWM. All sites have launchpad no warehouse. My current null setup (5% tax) is:

Toon 1 skills CCU 4, IC 4 (soon to be 5)

Barren: 1 ECU 9 heads cycle output 13000, 10 basic (P0 micro to P1 bacteria)
Lava: 1 ECU 9 heads cycle output 16000, 9 basic (P0 non-cs to P1 chiral)
Temperate: 1 ECU 8 heads cycle output 16000, 11 basic (P0 carbon to P1 biofuels)
Storm: 1 ECU 8 heads cycle output 16000, 11 basic (P0 ionic to P1 electrolytes)
Gas: 1 ECU 9 heads cycle output 12000, 9 basic (P0 noble to P1 oxygen)

Toon 2 skills CCU 3, IC 4

Lava: 1 ECU 9 heads cycle output 15000, 9 basic (P0 heavy to P1 toxic)
Temperate: 1 ECU 7 heads cycle output 18000, 9 basic (P0 complex to P1 proteins)
Storm: 1 ECU 9 heads cycle output 11000, 8 basic (P0 aqueous to P1 water)
Gas: 1 ECU 7 heads cycle output 6700, 8 basic (P0 base to P1 reactive)
Factory: 18 advanced (15 are P1 to P2, 3 are P2 to P3), 2 hi-tec (P3 to P4 WWM)

Output cycles are 24hours and depletion is stabilising. I've matched cycle output to basic the best I could, and I can see I need to increase number of P2-P3 and P3-4 at expense of P1-P2. That being said I'm overproducing P1s so plan is when I get IC5 to create another factory planet on a similar setup to the other. My current shortage in the chain is curiously in TOXIC METALS.

Yet current output is a meagre 2 WWM per day. I'd be grateful for advice on modifying the above to improve efficiency. I'm not looking to decomission entire colonies or change production unless I'm making some fundamental error (no "your error is doing PI" jokes please) but rather to improve the output of the above line given what I have.

Thank you to those who post constructively!



If you get IC5, you might be better served by having a P2->P3 planet and then a P3->P4 planet. Thatway you don't have to split yourinput materials, easier to manage.
Commander Xenophobe
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#7 - 2014-05-05 18:33:38 UTC
I'm confused... whose numbers are right? lol

If my numbers are correct then I've got too many BIFs; I need to have around 1 BIF per 3K output (output being on a 15 min cycle) - is that right?
Haffsol
#8 - 2014-05-05 18:43:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Haffsol
I knew from 23 to 96 hrs (or was it 50? who cares!) cycles were always 1hr long but I may be wrong on that.

@commander: just open your client and check how long they are. I keep my suggest of the 48hr valid, and still don't get why you yield only 12k. Hate to say that (hated when I had to check lol) but, is everything routed correctly?
Aerie Evingod
Midwest Miners LLC
#9 - 2014-05-05 18:46:31 UTC
Commander Xenophobe wrote:
I'm confused... whose numbers are right? lol

If my numbers are correct then I've got too many BIFs; I need to have around 1 BIF per 3K output (output being on a 15 min cycle) - is that right?


BIF cycle time is always 30 minutes, ECU varies on your program duration.
Aerie Evingod
Midwest Miners LLC
#10 - 2014-05-05 18:48:39 UTC
Haffsol wrote:
I knew from 23 to 96 hrs (or was it 50? who cares!) cycles were always 1hr but I may be wrong on that.

@commander: just open your client and check how long they are. I keep my suggest of the 48hr valid, and still don't get why you yield only 12k


Up to 24 hours and 45 minutes is 15 minute cycles. After that is half hour cycles, around 48 hours it switches to an hour... Then 2 hours.... Then 4 hours.
Commander Xenophobe
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#11 - 2014-05-05 19:17:51 UTC
Aerie Evingod wrote:
Commander Xenophobe wrote:
I'm confused... whose numbers are right? lol

If my numbers are correct then I've got too many BIFs; I need to have around 1 BIF per 3K output (output being on a 15 min cycle) - is that right?


BIF cycle time is always 30 minutes, ECU varies on your program duration.


I see, I didn't know that - thank you for teaching me something new. Yes, I was working to 15 min cycles. It may be easier for me to understand the maths if I work to 48 hours because then it's 30 minute cycles same as the BFI, so 1 BFI to every 3000 output
Aerie Evingod
Midwest Miners LLC
#12 - 2014-05-05 19:52:04 UTC
Commander Xenophobe wrote:
Aerie Evingod wrote:
Commander Xenophobe wrote:
I'm confused... whose numbers are right? lol

If my numbers are correct then I've got too many BIFs; I need to have around 1 BIF per 3K output (output being on a 15 min cycle) - is that right?


BIF cycle time is always 30 minutes, ECU varies on your program duration.


I see, I didn't know that - thank you for teaching me something new. Yes, I was working to 15 min cycles. It may be easier for me to understand the maths if I work to 48 hours because then it's 30 minute cycles same as the BFI, so 1 BFI to every 3000 output



With the exception of an empty BIF, they use 6000 units per hour, so convert your P0 to an hourly sum. The longer your cycle time, 15 minutes versus anything longer, results in less extraction per hour. However, ifyou have an excess of P0 then it shouldn't bea problem.
Commander Xenophobe
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#13 - 2014-05-05 20:01:44 UTC
Thanks, I'm trying to reach the optimal extraction to P1 production ratio