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Dev Blog: Team Up: Industry Work Teams

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Jethrow Toralen
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#641 - 2014-05-03 12:09:05 UTC
Well this is interesting. On one hand mobile newer players are assisted, grabbing their BPC and hopping into the closest system with a team for their manufacturing - I like that, but again with the reservation I expressed in the manufacturing thread - too much 'interest' or complexity (variables, decision-making etc) is as offputting as too little interest or complexity.

But will anyone in highsec really order a team, knowing that a large bunch of mobile plebians will crash their system and jack up their prices for the next 28 day averaging? Let alone the non-zero sum game experiment aspect - very few ppl play those cooperatively such that both parties win, usually they try for more benefit to themselves to the detriment of the other party with the end result being there is no gain to either party. And philosophically, I imagine the sort of ppl with the money to do this in highsec will find it offensive to have to share their economic benefits with competitors.

Highsec content creators ;) though, are probably getting warm fuzzies at the prospect of such a honeypot! :D (Creating it themselves or availing themselves of those created by genuine industrialists!)

Quote:
devblog
The only way to monopolize a team is to get it to a system with no public stations (for instance where you have an Outpost).

Yes, quite. I look forward with interest to seeing who locks up the teams first! For benefit, or even just for the lulz.

Quote:
devblog
There are no extra benefits given to those that spent money to attract a team to a system. This is on purpose to keep the system simpler. However, this does mean that players can freeload of the money and effort spent by somebody else in acquiring a team into a system. We’ll monitor the behavior of industrialists in the weeks following the release to determine if we need to take action to reward those people active in getting teams into systems.

See non-zero sum game comment. Human nature being what it is, I can't imagine ppl going for this unless they can extract protected benefits.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#642 - 2014-05-03 14:38:56 UTC
Will there be some sort of a simulator on if a Team is actually benefiting a industry job or if it adds just unnecessary cost, or a way to build 3rd party tools that can simulate industry processes with the various influencing cost contributors?

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Furoth
Black Avarice
Skeletons in the Closet
#643 - 2014-05-03 18:13:28 UTC
Firvain wrote:
Or the small guys move to where the big guys are producing and reaping the same benefit for none of the cost. Looks pretty valid to me


And yet I still doubt you will open your outposts to the public hoping to attract all that industry.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#644 - 2014-05-03 18:18:59 UTC
Furoth wrote:
Firvain wrote:
Or the small guys move to where the big guys are producing and reaping the same benefit for none of the cost. Looks pretty valid to me


And yet I still doubt you will open your outposts to the public hoping to attract all that industry.

well, that depends on if you've got a security deposit ready and can pass the background check

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Furoth
Black Avarice
Skeletons in the Closet
#645 - 2014-05-03 19:42:16 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
well, that depends on if you've got a security deposit ready and can pass the background check



This just highlights my point(oh and thanks). Those with the isk can benefit from the system; those without, the little guys, cannot. It's a one sided system and a bad idea.
Dramaticus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#646 - 2014-05-03 20:03:04 UTC
That individuals are going to find themselves at a disadvantage to coordinated groups is neither a surprise or undesired.

The 'do-nothing' member of the GoonSwarm Economic Warfare Cabal

The edge is REALLY hard to see at times but it DOES exist and in this case we were looking at a situation where a new feature created for all of our customers was being virtually curbstomped by five of them
Firvain
Wildly Inappropriate
Wildly Inappropriate.
#647 - 2014-05-03 20:27:37 UTC
Furoth wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
well, that depends on if you've got a security deposit ready and can pass the background check



This just highlights my point(oh and thanks). Those with the isk can benefit from the system; those without, the little guys, cannot. It's a one sided system and a bad idea.


yeah except you in highsec have alot more people around to actully work together then the 5 industrials that live in deklein.

The combined pocket of 20 people is alot bigger then the pockets of 5
Dramaticus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#648 - 2014-05-03 21:36:15 UTC
Firvain wrote:
Furoth wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
well, that depends on if you've got a security deposit ready and can pass the background check



This just highlights my point(oh and thanks). Those with the isk can benefit from the system; those without, the little guys, cannot. It's a one sided system and a bad idea.


yeah except you in highsec have alot more people around to actully work together then the 5 industrials that live in deklein.

The combined pocket of 20 people is alot bigger then the pockets of 5


Except they are idiots

The 'do-nothing' member of the GoonSwarm Economic Warfare Cabal

The edge is REALLY hard to see at times but it DOES exist and in this case we were looking at a situation where a new feature created for all of our customers was being virtually curbstomped by five of them
El 1974
Green Visstick High
#649 - 2014-05-03 21:54:53 UTC
Adding complexity without interesting new gameplay is really the way forward. Roll
Dirk MacGirk
Specter Syndicate
#650 - 2014-05-03 22:09:41 UTC
Furoth wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
well, that depends on if you've got a security deposit ready and can pass the background check



This just highlights my point(oh and thanks). Those with the isk can benefit from the system; those without, the little guys, cannot. It's a one sided system and a bad idea.


That's not true. It shouldn't be the few with ISK because they can't outdo the many who organize. But what you are really saying is that it's too hard to try and organize and as a result it will be the few with money or the small groups who can organize. But that is the story of EVE. Better organization always wins.

If Hisec could ever find a way of coming together, they could completely screw the big nullsec entities. Not just in terms of the Teams, but in a good many ways related to this expansion. But they won't, so forget I mentioned it.
Furoth
Black Avarice
Skeletons in the Closet
#651 - 2014-05-03 23:47:49 UTC
Dirk MacGirk wrote:

That's not true. It shouldn't be the few with ISK because they can't outdo the many who organize. But what you are really saying is that it's too hard to try and organize and as a result it will be the few with money or the small groups who can organize. But that is the story of EVE. Better organization always wins.

If Hisec could ever find a way of coming together, they could completely screw the big nullsec entities. Not just in terms of the Teams, but in a good many ways related to this expansion. But they won't, so forget I mentioned it.


IF high sec industrialists grouped to screw over null sec, do they deserve additional game mechanics that makes it easier to do so? No. I'm not aginst organized groups in high sec or the 5 industrialists in Delekin, I simply hate the idea of such a lopsided mechanic.
Lolmer
Merciless Reckoning
#652 - 2014-05-04 02:03:52 UTC
I was all excited to hear that industrial teamwork was being implemented inside Eve, only to find out that you mean use NPCs. I thought we were moving away from NPCs being involved. Instead this should be a Contract system where players sell their skills (consuming a usage of the appropriate industry slot) for the duration) to fulfill these needs, thus opening up another way for players to contribute or hinder (by accepting the contract with the lowest skilled character(s)) other players and use their skills for income.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#653 - 2014-05-04 06:25:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
Furoth wrote:
Firvain wrote:
Or the small guys move to where the big guys are producing and reaping the same benefit for none of the cost. Looks pretty valid to me


And yet I still doubt you will open your outposts to the public hoping to attract all that industry.


Who would voluntarily go to CFC space or any 00 sec station for that matter (Providence might be the exception proving the rule) as a neutral and produce there? That's like voluntarily deadzoning your assets.

--

Lolmer wrote:
I was all excited to hear that industrial teamwork was being implemented inside Eve, only to find out that you mean use NPCs. I thought we were moving away from NPCs being involved. Instead this should be a Contract system where players sell their skills (consuming a usage of the appropriate industry slot) for the duration) to fulfill these needs, thus opening up another way for players to contribute or hinder (by accepting the contract with the lowest skilled character(s)) other players and use their skills for income.


This would not work at all.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Seith Kali
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#654 - 2014-05-04 07:09:13 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:


Who would voluntarily go to CFC space or any 00 sec station for that matter (Providence might be the exception proving the rule) as a neutral and produce there? That's like voluntarily deadzoning your assets.


We have an excellent rental program. Would you care for details?

Apprentice Goonswarm Economic Warfare Consultant - Drowning in entitlement and privilege. 
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#655 - 2014-05-04 07:19:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
Absolutely not. I pay CCP for playing the game, no one else. Blink

Besides, renting is a slightly different matter to Neutrals can dock on our station, it's not much, but the difference is there. Roll

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Firvain
Wildly Inappropriate
Wildly Inappropriate.
#656 - 2014-05-04 11:18:19 UTC
Furoth wrote:
Firvain wrote:
Or the small guys move to where the big guys are producing and reaping the same benefit for none of the cost. Looks pretty valid to me


And yet I still doubt you will open your outposts to the public hoping to attract all that industry.


Im always looking for minions tbh, although i do prefer mining minions over building minions at the moment. If you are a miner and want a nice safe place to mine feel free to poke me. Ive got some pretty good terms like free hulks and free perfect reprocessing etc :)
Malrock
Space noobs forever
#657 - 2014-05-04 14:42:26 UTC
Well well well... seems prices on produced things will go up by a sizable margin to cover all those variable costs and random gizmos, hope every pew-pewer is now ready to spend more of the goodie goodie iskies to get replacments Pirate
Atomic Option
NO Tax FAT Stacks
#658 - 2014-05-04 15:15:35 UTC
As someone who doesn't normally go out of my way to find lore, the link in this dev blog was the first I've seen of that Inferno Chronicle, and.... holy **** that was intense.

And scary. And close to home since I'm in school to be a researcher, and I have a specific research goal on an extremely important problem in a broad field, and one of my biggest fears is that some limit of intellect will make the research go nowhere and the decades of my life that I spend on it be for nothing. I can't say that I'd willingly take that drug, but it'd be really ******* tempting.

(also, they should give that drug to a biologist and ask him how to cure the mind-toasting.)
Atomic Option
NO Tax FAT Stacks
#659 - 2014-05-04 15:58:30 UTC
CCP SoniClover wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
wall of text .


Optimizing towards boredom is not a good design direction, no matter how much you want it.


One thing that has kept me out of industry in EVE has been boredom. In most games you can always be doing something towards whatever your goal is. (e.g. kill another monster towards the xp for the next level). In contrast, with EVE industry you put in as many jobs as you have money/materials for and then you just wait around. There's nothing else you can be busy doing towards that goal. This may not be an issue for established industrialists who are running 400 jobs, but it's a huge issue for industry newbies.

I'm not sure how best to address this, but there it is...
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#660 - 2014-05-04 16:37:42 UTC
Atomic Option wrote:
CCP SoniClover wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
wall of text .


Optimizing towards boredom is not a good design direction, no matter how much you want it.


One thing that has kept me out of industry in EVE has been boredom. In most games you can always be doing something towards whatever your goal is. (e.g. kill another monster towards the xp for the next level). In contrast, with EVE industry you put in as many jobs as you have money/materials for and then you just wait around. There's nothing else you can be busy doing towards that goal. This may not be an issue for established industrialists who are running 400 jobs, but it's a huge issue for industry newbies.

I'm not sure how best to address this, but there it is...


I also do PI, mine, run exploration/combat anomalies and now invent too. there's lots of things to do whilst running jobs, you just need to go out and find them...